another annulment question

[danimay]

Every time I come to “Family Life”, there is at least one annulment thread going. It seems that everyone who goes through a divorce wants the marriage annulled. A lot of people even seem to EXPECT to be granted one. So here are my questions:

1. What percent of applicants are actually granted an annulment?
2. Have you or anyone you know been denied an annulment?

BTW, I am not considering divorce! It’s truly is just that the constant stream of annulment threads have made me wonder how many people apply for them and how many are granted/denied.

 

[whatevergirl]

Every time I come to “Family Life”, there is at least one annulment thread going. It seems that everyone who goes through a divorce wants the marriage annulled. A lot of people even seem to EXPECT to be granted one. So here are my questions:

1. What percent of applicants are actually granted an annulment?
2. Have you or anyone you know been denied an annulment?

BTW, I am not considering divorce! It’s truly is just that the constant stream of annulment threads have made me wonder how many people apply for them and how many are granted/denied.

Not knowing a whole lot about annulments or the process myself–I wondered this as well. Is nearly everyone being granted an annulment? Curious as well. Good thread.

 

[lizaanne]

You should also remember that just because one half of the couple is told that they are free to marry after a declaration of nullity has been granted, that the other half is also free to marry. It is possible for the Tribunal to place conditions on someone, and while they say that the marriage was not valid, and that the woman (for example) may now marry in the Church, that the man may not marry for whatever reasons - such as requiring psychological or spiritual counseling. So even if we knew how many “marriages” are declared to be invalid, we still don’t know how many people are determined to be free to marry. You can’t always assume it’s both the man and the woman, that may not always be the case.

~Liza

 

[whatevergirl]

You should also remember that just because one half of the couple is told that they are free to marry after a declaration of nullity has been granted, that the other half is also free to marry. It is possible for the Tribunal to place conditions on someone, and while they say that the marriage was not valid, and that the woman (for example) may now marry in the Church, that the man may not marry for whatever reasons - such as requiring psychological or spiritual counseling. So even if we knew how many “marriages” are declared to be invalid, we still don’t know how many people are determined to be free to marry. You can’t always assume it’s both the man and the woman, that may not always be the case.

~Liza

That is an interesting point!

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Oddly, people in happy thriving healthy non-abusive faithful marriages don’t apply for annulments. So none of those marriages are declared invalid. Maybe the crushing weight of a marriage’s invalidity is what sends it crashing into a heap of pain and devastation. At least half of all marriages in this country end in divorce. The very act of petitioning for an annulment indicates at least ONE party in that marriage takes the church rules seriously enough that they are not going to enter another marriage while still married. But a true marriage requires TWO people to view marriage seriously.

Your original question seemed a bit judgmental, but maybe I’m being too sensitive. I didn’t seek my divorce. My xh did, TWICE. I even took him back the first time he filed. SOME PEOPLE SHOULD NEVER MARRY. The number of annulments in this country tell me there are too many invalid marriages being conducted by priests who should have the guts to tell a couple they are:

too young
too immature
unprepared for marriage
contracepting and making a marriage invalid
full of unresolved mental problems from their families of origin
fornicating and preventing true ability to discern marriage
not spiritually ready for the role of spouse
lacking the capacity to marry
drug abusing or alcoholic
not intent on remaining faithful and not believing marriage is permanent

or whatever other reason… and that the priest will not officiate at the farce they want to celebrate at the Church soundstage for their big extravagant production.

It takes two to make a marriage. But it only takes one person to mess it up. And should that mean that those who did not see the truth about a future spouse should spend the rest of their lives alone? If there were fewer invalid marriages, there would be fewer petitions for nullity.

Pray you never have to go through a divorce and attempt to have a decree of nullity. It’s too painful to think about.

As for me, I received my final decree of nullity 15 years after walking down the aisle. My vows and intent were sincere. But after I learned over 15 years what the other party was really all about, yes, I expected the annulment petition to be granted. Because a compassionate Church would not tell me I was bound to such a man until death.

 

[danimay]

.

Your original question seemed a bit judgmental, but maybe I’m being too sensitive. I didn’t seek my divorce. .

I’m not being judgemental at all. I’m sorry if I made you feel that I am judging you or anyone else. I am truly just asking the questions posted.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

I know the USA is criticized for its high levels of annulment petitions. But then again, we have a much higher rate of church attendance than the rest of the world. In other more “liberal” countries, perhaps people don’t remarry in the church, or they just have affairs and remain in an original marriage, or they forego marriage altogether. But the USA gets judged because people here actually try to follow Church marriage laws in much higher numbers than elsewhere.

 

[whatevergirl]

I keep forgetting that annulments are only for those who wish to remarry in the Church…why can’t I get that through my head?:banghead:

So let’s say someone knew for sure they were done marrying…for ever–would he/she need an annulment? Forgive my ignorance of this!!

 

[dulcissima]

I’m not being judgemental at all. I’m sorry if I made you feel that I am judging you or anyone else. I am truly just asking the questions posted.

Hi Danimay,

It probably wasn’t so much your post as some of the others that have already been posted in previous threads. There have been a number of threads started by people assuming that annulments are “too easy” to get. It gets a bit tiresome to see blanket statements like that made and statistics misused. Really, each marriage needs to be looked at individually and it is a good thing that we have tribunals that are equipped to do just that.

 

[dulcissima]

I keep forgetting that annulments are only for those who wish to remarry in the Church…why can’t I get that through my head?:banghead:

So let’s say someone knew for sure they were done marrying…for ever–would he/she need an annulment? Forgive my ignorance of this!!

No they wouldn’t be required to; however, they still might wish to do so, so that they can discover the truth.

 

[kage_ar]

I keep forgetting that annulments are only for those who wish to remarry in the Church…why can’t I get that through my head?:banghead:

So let’s say someone knew for sure they were done marrying…for ever–would he/she need an annulment? Forgive my ignorance of this!!

From these forum posts, it also seems there are many cases of cradle Catholics who were not taught the Church laws regarding Marriage.

If someone was married and divorced 25 times outside of the Church and now wants to come/return to the Faith - as long as they get to Confession and live a chaste life, there would be no reason to have the validity of all 25 marriages reviewed.

 

[whatevergirl]

No they wouldn’t be required to; however, they still might wish to do so, so that they can discover the truth.

Yes, I told my sister during the holidays, that she should seek getting an annulment–she does wish to remarry. She said…I was married for nearly 30 years, that marriage definitely existed. I said, it’s more than that–you might have rushed into marriage, or maybe you both were too young to realize the commitment you were making. Plus, I said you were seeking a divorce for years, so maybe this would help you to heal and seek closure.

She is thinking about it. I think it’s a beautiful process, but I have often wondered the number of annulments granted, just out of curiousity. It is a question some of my non Catholic friends ask, especially when people are in multiple marriages, getting multiple annulments. I often don’t have an answer.

 

[whatevergirl]

From these forum posts, it also seems there are many cases of cradle Catholics who were not taught the Church laws regarding Marriage.

If someone was married and divorced 25 times outside of the Church and now wants to come/return to the Faith - as long as they get to Confession and live a chaste life, there would be no reason to have the validity of all 25 marriages reviewed.

I was not taught Church law–I did not go to Catholic school, and I think if my dad had survived during my teen years, I would have learned it, because he was very devout, and up on Church law. I guess I automatically assume that people will want to get remarried…I forget that an annulment has no bearing in someone’s life, if he/she chooses to live chastely from that point on – after a divorce. So only if we are divorced, with no annulment, and remarry–would Jesus consider that whole thing ‘adultery?’

 

[He_Man]

I was not taught Church law–I did not go to Catholic school, and I think if my dad had survived during my teen years, I would have learned it, because he was very devout, and up on Church law. I guess I automatically assume that people will want to get remarried…I forget that an annulment has no bearing in someone’s life, if he/she chooses to live chastely from that point on – after a divorce. So only if we are divorced, with no annulment, and remarry–would Jesus consider that whole thing ‘adultery?’

Yes. The remarriage part is where they went wrong.

You can get divorced, not get an annulment, and stay chaste and single. That is perfectly valid as a Catholic.

 

[dulcissima]

Yes, I told my sister during the holidays, that she should seek getting an annulment–she does wish to remarry. She said…I was married for nearly 30 years, that marriage definitely existed. I said, it’s more than that–you might have rushed into marriage, or maybe you both were too young to realize the commitment you were making. Plus, I said you were seeking a divorce for years, so maybe this would help you to heal and seek closure.

She is thinking about it. I think it’s a beautiful process, but I have often wondered the number of annulments granted, just out of curiousity. It is a question some of my non Catholic friends ask, especially when people are in multiple marriages, getting multiple annulments. I often don’t have an answer.

I think it really is a great chance to reflect and sort things out. I spent months writing out my thoughts. It really helps to have a good understanding about what a marriage really is and then to go back and see how the defects in the marriage at the onset really did end up leading to the eventual breakdown. It is amazing for instance to take a look at the snowball effect of one spouse not being open to having children. It can cause huge problems in lots of areas that can all be traced back to that particular issue.

If you want to encourage your sister…you might want to start by helping her understand what an annulment really is. I like this resource put out by the Knights of Columbus:
kofc.org/un/rc/en/publications/cis/publications/veritas/Veritas_CIS301.pdf

Also, if you look at the web page for the diocese in which she was married, they often have a PDF version of the initial questionnaire. If she has a look at that, it might get her interested in at least thinking about it.

 

[whatevergirl]

Yes. The remarriage part is where they went wrong.

You can get divorced, not get an annulment, and stay chaste and single. That is perfectly valid as a Catholic.

Thanks He Man…that would be easier. ha

 

[whatevergirl]

I think it really is a great chance to reflect and sort things out. I spent months writing out my thoughts. It really helps to have a good understanding about what a marriage really is and then to go back and see how the defects in the marriage at the onset really did end up leading to the eventual breakdown. It is amazing for instance to take a look at the snowball effect of one spouse not being open to having children. It can cause huge problems in lots of areas that can all be traced back to that particular issue.

If you want to encourage your sister…you might want to start by helping her understand what an annulment really is. I like this resource put out by the Knights of Columbus:
kofc.org/un/rc/en/publications/cis/publications/veritas/Veritas_CIS301.pdf

Also, if you look at the web page for the diocese in which she was married, they often have a PDF version of the initial questionnaire. If she has a look at that, it might get her interested in at least thinking about it.

Thank you for posting this!

You know, this may sound…hmmm…what’s the word…presumptious of me to say…but I lived with my sister growing up, and they did have rough patches–but my BIL loved my sister very much, and was a good husband…my sister’s expectations of marriage were not realistic. I personally think her marriage was valid–with the exception that she might have gone into her marriage to escape our controlling father. (her words, not mine) But, the marriage itself was a true marriage in my eyes…which is why she might not be eager to seek an annulment. I think my BIL thought it was very much a marriage, too. These are my thoughts–but if you were to ask me–it seemed valid, and thus could be why she has guilt over divorcing her husband. Like, what do you do from that point, ya know? What do I tell her? It’s sad to see someone live with guilt and regret.

 

[dulcissima]

The getting married to escape another situation is one that comes up frequently. Your sister might look into it and realize that she did not go into that marriage with the right intentions. Owning up to that could be a very nice gesture to her ex.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Not everyone gets an annulment to remarry. Sometimes, as Dulcissma said, it’s a search for the truth. A closing of a relationship for good. For me it was the only time I was treated with any dignity or respect for who I was and what I tried to do. No one told me I was “making things up” or partly to blame for how I was treated. When you torment yourself with the question for years “could there be something more I could have done” and then you are told your marriage didn’t work because it wasn’t even a sacramentally valid marriage to begin with and you didn’t have the grace of the sacrament to help you, it really helps to find peace.

And it’s nice to know I’m not bonded as a spiritual wife to that man while he’s out dating everyone else. It helps in that way also. Because unless you’ve been in the position of watching your ex-spouse date, you don’t know how it feels to think you are still married in God’s eyes.

 

[whatevergirl]

Not everyone gets an annulment to remarry. Sometimes, as Dulcissma said, it’s a search for the truth. A closing of a relationship for good. For me it was the only time I was treated with any dignity or respect for who I was and what I tried to do. No one told me I was “making things up” or partly to blame for how I was treated. When you torment yourself with the question for years “could there be something more I could have done” and then you are told your marriage didn’t work because it wasn’t even a sacramentally valid marriage to begin with and you didn’t have the grace of the sacrament to help you, it really helps to find peace.

And it’s nice to know I’m not bonded as a spiritual wife to that man while he’s out dating everyone else. It helps in that way also. Because unless you’ve been in the position of watching your ex-spouse date, you don’t know how it feels to think you are still married in God’s eyes.

I am so glad you have a sense of peace now. I think the RCC does a remarkable job in helping people through these difficult times, and yet–it receives scorn and judgement by the public for its role in helping people out of bad situations. I mean, not all, but many people can find solace in knowing that because the marriage was never blessed to begin with–then, how could it possibly work? My husband and I were married by the JOP --initially. And lived not knowing it was wrong, etc…then, we our priest at our last parish in PA asked to bless our marriage, and seriously, our marriage took a turn for the better. I really attribute this to it not being blessed to begin with (which is why we had a lot of problems early on, and other reasons)

I think it’s a blessing if people understand why it’s there. I learn more and more about it from all of you–thanks for not making me feel dumb for not knowing this already!