Another beloved cathedral... destroyed

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Hi everyone. I could really use your prayers. At the moment I’m feeling very upset and hurt… my girlfriend and I went to the Cathedral of Our Lady of Lourdes in Spokane tonight for Mass. We’d elected to stay away from St. Aloysius Gonzaga parish on the campus of Gonzaga university because of the terrible music that is offered up there and because of the, how shall one put it, questionable liturgical innovations.

As soon as we walked into the nave we both went deathly pale. The music director was strumming away on his guitar practicing for Mass. I thought “ok, {name of organist} couldn’t make it to play tonight. Weird that {name of director} didn’t call me, but that’s ok. I know he’ll try to do something reverent.” Nope. The music was nasty, unCatholic, Haugen and Haas stuff. And he was having a blast playing it…

This same director of music has a Master’s degree in Vocal performance and I believe one in Education, too… he was in my choir last year and has been in charge of the Cathedral choir for years. He’s NEVER allowed anyone to profane the liturgy at the Cathedral like that before… and now everything’s changed. Apparently, this has become the norm. The orthodox Monsignor is celebrating fewer and fewer Masses and there’s a new priest in town. No more Eucharistic Prayer I… I suspect that our bishop has had a hand in all of this and I’m really not sure how to take it.

And…why…would…the…music…director…go…along… with… it?! GYAH! Anyway, I’m very depressed to see that this once-beautiful house of worship has not only been architecturally destroyed (our bishop called for some oh, so wonderful wreckovations) but musically destroyed as well. It’s only a matter of time before serious abuses creep in and the Masses offered in this sacred place become a total abomination in the Father’s eyes. Thank God that his grace can’t touch Chant Mass. Yet. Anyway, please pray for me and for all the faithful Catholics in Spokane who have been robbed of their heritage overnight.
 
The whole cathedral was destroyed over the music at one mass? News flash! We don’t all share your taste in music. Some of us enjoy musicians like your guitarist and find them a refreshing change to the organ.
 
loyola rambler:
The whole cathedral was destroyed over the music at one mass? News flash! We don’t all share your taste in music. Some of us enjoy musicians like your guitarist and find them a refreshing change to the organ.
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I rarely find Organ music a big devotional aid myself. We have an organist and ugh! an organ. I can’t say I am fond of guitars either but of the two, I’ll take a guitar over the loud dronning of an organ.
 
CatholicNerd: I haven’t seen or heard the problem. But please realize that God is in control. If you are upset, it is because you think things are out of control or that things are not in your control.

Just remember that God is in control.

Music is a beautiful thing. Even David played to Saul with a stringed instrument. In part, 1 Samuel 18:10 reads “…David was in attendance, playing the harp as at other times, while Saul was holding his spear.” So CatholicNerd, please be more like David and a little less like Saul.

Doesn’t going to Mass change your day? I once heard a homily that talked more about baseball and other sports almost more than it talked about the Lord. Remember that there are a lot of different people with needs at different levels. I am in RCIA. For me the baseball homily worked anyway. And I took my kids to a few minor league baseball games. It was fun. Sometimes some of us may have needs that aren’t very spiritual.

Not too long ago, the Linton Hall Benedictine sisters hosted an American Indian Pow-Wow. There was virtually nothing at all spiritual about the event – unless you count the opening Indian dance where I swear the Indians were dancing and singing “Yahvey, Yahvey, Yah, Yah, Yahvey, Yahvey, Yahvey, Yah, Yah Yahveh, etc.” I was startled to hear them singing and dancing God’s name and mentioned it to one of the nuns. She said “We’ll take it.” To me, the whole event was part of a proof that I needed. I needed to see that Catholics weren’t racist. I really know now, but I didn’t know last June. I saw in my local newspaper that the sisters were hosing the Pow-Wow. And it helped to convince me. I am in an inter-racial marriage. And it was important to me because I couldn’t consider the Catholic Church if their stand on race or inter-racial marriages was in doubt.

I suppose the Benedictine Sisters might have gotten some trouble from somebody like you. Criticism for hosting the Pow-Wow. I took my family to it and we had a good time. But we only stayed a little over an hour.

I like so much music. I look forward to being in full communion. When I am able to join the choir, I’d really like to. I’ve been invited to, but I’m not allowing myself yet to join. Read Psalm 150 and see that maybe you are missing out if you don’t fully follow it at least sometimes.
 
loyola rambler:
The whole cathedral was destroyed over the music at one mass? News flash! We don’t all share your taste in music. Some of us enjoy musicians like your guitarist and find them a refreshing change to the organ.
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Indeed, tastes differ and there’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but what this person is describing is his or her dismay at the rejection of a beautiful tradition which, like so many others, is being cast aside in the name of “progress”. That is entirely different from the snobbishness that you imply in your reply. To appreciate an art form that evolved over centuries for the very specific purpose of enhancing worship during the sacred liturgy is called respect.

Just for the record, I go around on this issue with my 70-year-old mother. You would expect someone of her age to side with me, but she doesn’t! She attends a church that has a really first-rate choir in terms of performance, but they never do anything besides the “modern” hymns, always accompanied by guitars & synthesizers. When I visit her, I always say that it’s such a shame that such a fine vocal ensemble won’t bother with the beautiful old hymns and chants that she herself performed in her youth in the same church’s choir. I try to be polite because she really does find the “new school” music to be inspiring, and she tries to find a polite way to call me a snob. 😉

I agree with the original post - if I go into another lovely old church & hear guitars and something like “Eagle’s Wings”, I think I’ll scream.
 
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stellina:
Indeed, tastes differ and there’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but what this person is describing is his or her dismay at the rejection of a beautiful tradition which, like so many others, is being cast aside in the name of “progress”. That is entirely different from the snobbishness that you imply in your reply. To appreciate an art form that evolved over centuries for the very specific purpose of enhancing worship during the sacred liturgy is called respect.

Just for the record, I go around on this issue with my 70-year-old mother. You would expect someone of her age to side with me, but she doesn’t! She attends a church that has a really first-rate choir in terms of performance, but they never do anything besides the “modern” hymns, always accompanied by guitars & synthesizers. When I visit her, I always say that it’s such a shame that such a fine vocal ensemble won’t bother with the beautiful old hymns and chants that she herself performed in her youth in the same church’s choir. I try to be polite because she really does find the “new school” music to be inspiring, and she tries to find a polite way to call me a snob. 😉

I agree with the original post - if I go into another lovely old church & hear guitars and something like “Eagle’s Wings”, I think I’ll scream.
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You’re right, I did find the original post overly snobbish. The cathedral is hardly “destroyed” just because at one mass on one day there was a musician playing a guitar.

Personally, I prefer Sunday evening masses…and in great part because there is usually a piano and no organ. In Chicago I had my pick of over half a dozen lovely masses on Sunday night, two as late as 9:30 pm. When I moved to Michigan, I was limited to driving 45 minutes to have mass at 5:30 in either Saginaw or Mt Pleasant. Neither is convenient, but the music is phenomenal and the homilists are their most invigorated at that hour. Tonight’s mass was full of beautiful music by Marty Haugan and I loved every last note of it. The pianist was awesome and everyone I could see was singing out loud and clear. No mumblers, no lip movers…the voices filled the church. If that isn’t a wonderful noise unto the Lord, I don’t know what is!
 
Funny, cause nobody sings at the Cathedral when they do Haugen stuff. Besides, Haugen isn’t even a Catholic. I think Catholic composers should have first dibs when it comes to liturgical music, don’t you? Like, I dunno, monks who bled and died to preserve the chant… musicians like Byrd who wrote for the Church during a time of extreme persecution… anything but some protestant hippie.
 
Second Vatican Council’s Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium had this to say about pipe organs: **
**
#120. In the Latin Church the pipe organ is to be held in high esteem, for it is the traditional musical instrument which adds a wonderful splendor to the Church’s ceremonies and powerfully lifts up man’s mind to God and to higher things.
 
I found the title to this thread very misleading. After reading the initial post I realize it had nothing to do with the destruction of a cathedral, just a melodramatic complaint about the music at the Mass.
 
loyola rambler:
You’re right, I did find the original post overly snobbish. The cathedral is hardly “destroyed” just because at one mass on one day there was a musician playing a guitar.QUOTE]

Well, while I appreciate you quoting me, I was actually agreeing with the original post and trying to differentiate his or her feelings about missing the traditional music that complemented the beauty of the cathedral and mere snobbishness. For the record, I *don’t *feel that the original post was snobbish - this person probably just meant to say that the atmosphere of the cathedral was affected for the worse, and I can sympathize with that sentiment although I agree that music can’t “destroy” a cathedral.

I suppose this is all a matter of taste & we’re all entitled to our own tastes in music. I just think it’s a shame that we American Catholics threw out a beautiful and venerable musical tradition in favor of something artistically inferior. Just my own opinion - some people share it & some don’t (like my mother!).
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CatholicNerd:
Funny, cause nobody sings at the Cathedral when they do Haugen stuff. Besides, Haugen isn’t even a Catholic. I think Catholic composers should have first dibs when it comes to liturgical music, don’t you? Like, I dunno, monks who bled and died to preserve the chant… musicians like Byrd who wrote for the Church during a time of extreme persecution… anything but some protestant hippie.
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No, I totally disagree with the premise that Catholic composers should bet dibs over non-Catholics. Case in point is the beautiful body of music written by Irving Berlin, including White Christmas. Are you seriously going to claim Berlin was incapable of writing a beautiful song about a Christian tradition just because he was Jewish? Are we seriously supposed to side line quality music because of the writer’s ethnicity or religious preferences? Please tell me that’s not what you’re saying.

We’re singing beautiful songs and making a beautiful prayer to our Creator. As I’m sure He’s not a snob about who writes the words or composes the melodies, I’m not going to get that picayune, either. If we did that, then all the beautiful Negro spirituals, Amazing Grace, and a good body of “traditional” Christian music would be dismissed with one wave of the hand.
 

The music was nasty, unCatholic, Haugen and Haas stuff. And he was having a blast playing it…​

Okay, tell this evil guitar player to look like someone died when he plays his instrument.
 
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Lilyofthevalley:
Okay, tell this evil guitar player to look like someone died when he plays his instrument.
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Goodness, whatever could Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross have been thinking! 😃 ROFLOL! They are known for loving the spainsh guitar and wrote many songs put to music by said guitar.
Very Catholic and very spiritual music and songs I might add. 😉
 
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Marie:
Goodness, whatever could Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross have been thinking! 😃 ROFLOL! They are known for loving the spainsh guitar and wrote many songs put to music by said guitar.
Very Catholic and very spiritual music and songs I might add. 😉
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Yeah and it’s doubtful that they were used at Mass. I’m a big fan of the Spanish style but I know the difference between what’s appropriate for Mass and what is not. I suspect that they did, too.
 
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CatholicNerd:
Yeah and it’s doubtful that they were used at Mass. I’m a big fan of the Spanish style but I know the difference between what’s appropriate for Mass and what is not. I suspect that they did, too.
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If you mean the thumping of the organ…ick! No one can tell me that awful noise is sacred.
 
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Marie:
If you mean the thumping of the organ…ick! No one can tell me that awful noise is sacred.
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**per CRUSADER - **Second Vatican Council’s Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium had this to say about pipe organs:

#120. In the Latin Church the pipe organ is to be held in high esteem, for it is the traditional musical instrument which adds a wonderful splendor to the Church’s ceremonies and powerfully lifts up man’s mind to God and to higher things.

**The VCC say’s it - hence it is! :yup: **
 
dominosNbiscuts said:
**per CRUSADER - **Second Vatican Council’s Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium had this to say about pipe organs:

#120. In the Latin Church the pipe organ is to be held in high esteem, for it is the traditional musical instrument which adds a wonderful splendor to the Church’s ceremonies and powerfully lifts up man’s mind to God and to higher things.

**The VCC say’s it - hence it is! :yup: **
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😃 Do they mention what to do with lousy musicians who should NOT go near said Pipe Organ as they disturb the peace and make a loud ungodly noise unto the Lord?
 
Wow! That was a lively discussion. The Mass is really what we bring to it. If our focus is on Jesus, the music, style, homily that we don’t like, and other complaints are secondary, as long as the Mass has the basics. Jesus comes to us in the Mass and all those that have passed on and that we believe are in Jesus are part of this experience. That is incredible!

May God bless you,
Deacon Tony
 
loyola rambler said:
You’re right, I did find the original post overly snobbish. The cathedral is hardly “destroyed” just because at one mass on one day there was a musician playing a guitar.

I think the author of the thread was talking about physical changes to the Cathedral interior, not that quitar music destroyed the interior, just the music.

.* . .and the homilists are their most invigorated at that hour.*

I’m curious - are the homilists ordained?

Thank you.
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