Another Bin Laden Question

[limabeanerson]

I’ve got a question/scenario…

#1: What if by God’s great mercy Bin Laden in his last moments “saw the light” so to speak. He repented and returned to Jesus’ loving arms. Would you be okay with this? Would it upset you? (Obviously we can’t know right now but if somehow we could, hypothetical)

#2: Same situation as #1. Bin Laden repents and is saved in his last moments. By some divine revelation you know that Bin Laden is now in purgatory. Would you pray for his soul in attempt to lessen his time there? Or would you intentionally do nothing so he could spend as much time in Purgatory as possible thinking he deserves any pain involved?

My personal answers: #1: God’s ways are greater than mine. If he’s ok with Bin Laden in heaven than I’m ok with it as well. When you look at Bin Laden’s action through the eyes of eternity his actions are really not that infamous (not to minimize what he did).

#2: I’d continue to pray for “All those in Purgatory” but I don’t know that I would specifically name him. I also, however, would not change my purgatory prayer to say “All those in purgatory except Bin Laden”.

 

[bnbkaine]

I would be very happy if he got to Heaven and I would pray for his soul in Purgatory. The real enemy is Satan and I would love if nobody helped him along.

 

[Della]

I’ve got a question/scenario…

#1: What if by God’s great mercy Bin Laden in his last moments “saw the light” so to speak. He repented and returned to Jesus’ loving arms. Would you be okay with this? Would it upset you? (Obviously we can’t know right now but if somehow we could, hypothetical)

No, I’d be thrilled to know the grace of God won over yet another heart for God. I highly doubt bin Laden would repent–only because people tend to harden their hearts the more they violate God’s law. And while God can break through anyone’s doubts/fears/misunderstandings, he won’t violate anyone’s will.

#2: Same situation as #1. Bin Laden repents and is saved in his last moments. By some divine revelation you know that Bin Laden is now in purgatory. Would you pray for his soul in attempt to lessen his time there? Or would you intentionally do nothing so he could spend as much time in Purgatory as possible thinking he deserves any pain involved?

Again, if he is in purgatory, I too would be quite happy to pray for his quick release. Why wouldn’t I? Because he was an infamous criminal? So was Dismas, but Christ forgave him and gave him absolution on the cross even though he had, at first reviled the Lord along with the other thief. He had a change of heart and entered paradise with Christ that very day. None of us poor sinners has the right to judge what another will do when face to face with the all merciful and loving God as we pass from this life into eternity. Our prayers help them–that’s our solemn duty. bin Laden got physical and temporal justice, but what he gets from God is up to God alone to decide.

 

[ndeparis88]

I would be very happy if he got to Heaven and I would pray for his soul in Purgatory. The real enemy is Satan and I would love if nobody helped him along.

Plus it would always be good to lessen the numbers of satans army.

 

[Theophorus]

I’ve got a question/scenario…

#1: What if by God’s great mercy Bin Laden in his last moments “saw the light” so to speak. He repented and returned to Jesus’ loving arms. Would you be okay with this? Would it upset you? (Obviously we can’t know right now but if somehow we could, hypothetical)

#2: Same situation as #1. Bin Laden repents and is saved in his last moments. By some divine revelation you know that Bin Laden is now in purgatory. Would you pray for his soul in attempt to lessen his time there? Or would you intentionally do nothing so he could spend as much time in Purgatory as possible thinking he deserves any pain involved?

My personal answers: #1: God’s ways are greater than mine. If he’s ok with Bin Laden in heaven than I’m ok with it as well. When you look at Bin Laden’s action through the eyes of eternity his actions are really not that infamous (not to minimize what he did).

#2: I’d continue to pray for “All those in Purgatory” but I don’t know that I would specifically name him. I also, however, would not change my purgatory prayer to say “All those in purgatory except Bin Laden”.

I would hope that I would rejoice in knowing that this prodigal son had returned and that after his time of purification he would attain heaven. I would pray for his soul, thank God for his Mercy and hope for such merciful treatment for myself.

 

[GEddie]

Plus it would always be good to lessen the numbers of satans army.

Good point, except I doubt that dead human beings have any part in that conflict.

If you die, you are either a victorious combatant sailing home, or an eternal POW.

(If in Purgatory, one could think of you as stuck in customs on the way home.)

ICXC NIKA.

 

[mom2em]

I’ve got a question/scenario…

#1: What if by God’s great mercy Bin Laden in his last moments “saw the light” so to speak. He repented and returned to Jesus’ loving arms. Would you be okay with this? Would it upset you? (Obviously we can’t know right now but if somehow we could, hypothetical)

#2: Same situation as #1. Bin Laden repents and is saved in his last moments. By some divine revelation you know that Bin Laden is now in purgatory. Would you pray for his soul in attempt to lessen his time there? Or would you intentionally do nothing so he could spend as much time in Purgatory as possible thinking he deserves any pain involved?

1. For me, hypothetically speaking of course, I would be okay with it. It is not for me to decide what should happen. If he repented of his ways, then he deserves God’s mercy and love as much as anyone else.
2. If we could say we knew that he was in purgatory, yes, I would pray for his soul and I do for other souls who may have no one to pray for them. If repentant, they are deserving. At least in my mind. Like I said, it isn’t for me to decide. If God can love him, then so can we. As I believe we are called to do. I prayed for him last night.

 

[Nelka]

I just wonder, if we all prayed for his soul in the last nine years, he may not have recruited so many people and may not have bombed somewhere else.

Shall we just pray for the Holy souls in Purgatory and the conversion of sinners?

 

[Della]

I just wonder, if we all prayed for his soul in the last nine years, he may not have recruited so many people and may not have bombed somewhere else.

Shall we just pray for the Holy souls in Purgatory and the conversion of sinners?

Many of us did pray for him over the years since 9-11. I pray every day that our enemies will see the truth and become or friends. I have never believed that all Muslims believe as the radical jihadists do. Frankly, I think of the radicals as serial killers who kill out of a misguided sense of self-worthlessness. bin Laden often said he wanted to die a martyr. It’s just too bad he died a martyr for the wrong cause and by the wrong means.

And there’s this, too, by praying for him and those who believe in killing as he did, we prevented more and worse atrocities from happening. I’m sure that God allowed 9-11 as a wake up call, but even in that he didn’t allow the very worst that could have been done to occur. We tend to only see the bad that happens, but God makes sure to mitigate circumstances so that even worse didn’t/doesn’t happen because he loves us and wishes us to repent and draw close to him.

 

[benedictgal]

We prayed for the repose of his soul at Mass.

 

[BVM_1221]

I’ve got a question/scenario…

#1: What if by God’s great mercy Bin Laden in his last moments “saw the light” so to speak. He repented and returned to Jesus’ loving arms. Would you be okay with this? Would it upset you? (Obviously we can’t know right now but if somehow we could, hypothetical)

#2: Same situation as #1. Bin Laden repents and is saved in his last moments. By some divine revelation you know that Bin Laden is now in purgatory. Would you pray for his soul in attempt to lessen his time there? Or would you intentionally do nothing so he could spend as much time in Purgatory as possible thinking he deserves any pain involved?

My personal answers: #1: God’s ways are greater than mine. If he’s ok with Bin Laden in heaven than I’m ok with it as well. When you look at Bin Laden’s action through the eyes of eternity his actions are really not that infamous (not to minimize what he did).

#2: I’d continue to pray for “All those in Purgatory” but I don’t know that I would specifically name him. I also, however, would not change my purgatory prayer to say “All those in purgatory except Bin Laden”.

#1. Already have. Please see the thread I started in “Prayer Intentions”.

#2. Yes. I might even buy a set of Gregorian masses for him.

 

[Brywan]

We prayed for the repose of his soul at Mass.

Bless you–this is what we are supposed to be doing as “prophets, priests and kings”–

I have already said prayers for his soul–and I believe that Mary also prayed for him at the hour of his death…

 

[kbwall]

This is similar to Hitler, and my response is the same. He may have been a monster, but he’s still a human being, and thus one should be glad to know that they are in heaven.

 

[starshiptrooper]

I’ve got a question/scenario…

#1: What if by God’s great mercy Bin Laden in his last moments “saw the light” so to speak. He repented and returned to Jesus’ loving arms. Would you be okay with this? Would it upset you? (Obviously we can’t know right now but if somehow we could, hypothetical)

I wouldn’t really care, if he is in Heaven or Hell, there is nothing I can do about it.

#2: Same situation as #1. Bin Laden repents and is saved in his last moments. By some divine revelation you know that Bin Laden is now in purgatory. Would you pray for his soul in attempt to lessen his time there? Or would you intentionally do nothing so he could spend as much time in Purgatory as possible thinking he deserves any pain involved?

I know many other people who need prayers far more than he does.

 

[benidict]

This is similar to Hitler, and my response is the same. He may have been a monster, but he’s still a human being, and thus one should be glad to know that they are in heaven.

Mercy on such an individual, would be cruelty to 6million Jews. Simple really. I guess Im the only dissenter. If I thought for a second, that Adolf Hitler, Osama Bin Ladin, or any other of their ilk were in paradise, I would stop believing in the JUSTICE of God and become an Atheist. True Story.

 

[Della]

Mercy on such an individual, would be cruelty to 6million Jews. Simple really. I guess Im the only dissenter. If I thought for a second, that Adolf Hitler, Osama Bin Ladin, or any other of their ilk were in paradise, I would stop believing in the JUSTICE of God and become an Atheist. True Story.

I have no doubt that these people got God’s justice–we all will. The thing that makes us hope is that God’s justice was visited upon Christ to forgive even the most heinous sinner. St. Therese the Little Flower once stated that she could almost wish she were a great sinner simply so God could show her more mercy. She didn’t want to be a great sinner, of course, but was simply saying that God’s mercy is infinite–as infinite as his justice. All the sins committed by every human being who ever lived or will live is but a drop in the ocean of God’s mercy. It is because of his infinite mercy and justice that he gave us the infinite grace of Christ’s redemptive death.

As to forgiving bin Laden or Hitler, that is not for us to do unless either one’s actions affected us personally. To carry hatred for people who have no connection to us but only disgust us is to carry an unnecessary and unfair burden. You cannot bring back those they killed nor bring justice to their loved ones, so it’s not your responsibility to forgive/judge. So, let these people go into God’s judgment and be at peace. God knows what he is doing no matter if he decided they were repentant and so will live in heaven or if they weren’t and are in hell. Our duty is to love the sinner no matter his sin because we are all capable of grave sin and in need of God’s mercy.

 

[starshiptrooper]

Mercy on such an individual, would be cruelty to 6million Jews. Simple really. I guess Im the only dissenter. If I thought for a second, that Adolf Hitler, Osama Bin Ladin, or any other of their ilk were in paradise, I would stop believing in the JUSTICE of God and become an Atheist. True Story.

I agree with you. I was just too cowardly to state my opinion as clearly as you did.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

“Returned to Jesus”? How could he “return to Jesus”, when he has never believed in Jesus to begin with?

Yes, God could convert anyone, at any point. He could also choose to life anyone into heaven, body and soul, at any time. he could choose to make time stand still, make atoms completely neutral in all aspects, and he could make pigs fly. But, the real question is, why would he?

If in fact Bin Ladin was reaching for a weapon when he was killed, it is highly doubtful that he had a last second conversion.

 

[Della]

“Returned to Jesus”? How could he “return to Jesus”, when he has never believed in Jesus to begin with?

Yes, God could convert anyone, at any point. He could also choose to life anyone into heaven, body and soul, at any time. he could choose to make time stand still, make atoms completely neutral in all aspects, and he could make pigs fly. But, the real question is, why would he?

If in fact Bin Ladin was reaching for a weapon when he was killed, it is highly doubtful that he had a last second conversion.

I’m afraid you’re right. I very much doubt there was any kind of conversion by bin Laden or any other infamous villain of history. Still, we leave their judgment to God. None of us can know how culpable any human being is for his sins. The ones feel for the most are the poor folks who were killed on 9-11 with no time to prepare for their deaths or to call loved ones. Not that I don’t feel horrible for those who did have some time, no one should have to face such a situation conceived of and executed by a mad man who deluded other poor souls into doing his dirty work for him. God knows what is best for all those who died that day, but I pray most for the victims and those who died trying to bring justice to the perpetrators.

 

[benidict]

Della- As to forgiving bin Laden or Hitler, that is not for us to do unless either one’s actions affected us personally.
ME–Interesting. I may disagree with alot of what you said. But this is completely correct. I applaud you. Most Christians do not realize this, and it is a very Jewish view. God bless you and yours.