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benidict
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Not only reaching for a weapon, but using a woman as a human shield. He died a murderer. Just as he lived.
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benidict
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Peace
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Della
Guest
Thank you for the blessing!Della- As to forgiving bin Laden or Hitler, that is not for us to do unless either one’s actions affected us personally.
ME–Interesting. I may disagree with alot of what you said. But this is completely correct. I applaud you. Most Christians do not realize this, and it is a very Jewish view. God bless you and yours.
The same to you and your loved ones.I didn’t realize my comments had anything in common with the Jewish view–but not surprised since my comments are Catholic and the Catholic understanding of justice comes from the Law of Moses. Too many people carry around guilt they shouldn’t bear or hatred for others they can do nothing to affect or wish to change people they cannot change. To do so is to put undo stress upon ourselves. We are, instead to pray for for others, hoping for the best for them, which is usually repentance and a change of their ways. How that is to happen we leave to God unless we are able to do something about it, such as show them God’s love or affect temporal justice upon them as our sworn duty. bin Laden had such justice done to him, and I can be and am thankful for that. I’m only saddened that he destroyed so many lives, including his own, before he was finally stopped.
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benidict
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Now this folks is a reasonable view! Wonderful post Della. Peace and thank you very much as well.Thank you for the blessing!
I didn’t realize my comments had anything in common with the Jewish view–but not surprised since my comments are Catholic and the Catholic understanding of justice comes from the Law of Moses. Too many people carry around guilt they shouldn’t bear or hatred for others they can do nothing to affect or wish to change people they cannot change. To do so is to put undo stress upon ourselves. We are, instead to pray for for others, hoping for the best for them, which is usually repentance and a change of their ways. How that is to happen we leave to God unless we are able to do something about it, such as show them God’s love or affect temporal justice upon them as our sworn duty. bin Laden had such justice done to him, and I can be and am thankful for that. I’m only saddened that he destroyed so many lives, including his own, before he was finally stopped.
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mdrummer5
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#1 I’d be very happy by that.
#2 Yes I would pray for him.
Why?
When I was younger I worked at a dead end job that nobody liked doing. One of the guys there was so lazy it was a wonder he was never fired. The rest of us basically did whatever we wanted by the logic of “Hey, Mike’s not fired yet, I’m good!”
The moral of the story… If Bin Laden repented and is now saved then it just proves further that God loves and forgives all of us IF we repent.
Please don’t take my little anecdote to mean that I think it’s ok to have the attitude “I’m going to do what I want then go to confession and it’s cool”, the idea of Bin Laden repenting just reminded me of it for some reason because on earth he was about as bad of a man as you can be… so if he’s in heaven… we’ve all got a shot!!!
#2 Yes I would pray for him.
Why?
When I was younger I worked at a dead end job that nobody liked doing. One of the guys there was so lazy it was a wonder he was never fired. The rest of us basically did whatever we wanted by the logic of “Hey, Mike’s not fired yet, I’m good!”
The moral of the story… If Bin Laden repented and is now saved then it just proves further that God loves and forgives all of us IF we repent.
Please don’t take my little anecdote to mean that I think it’s ok to have the attitude “I’m going to do what I want then go to confession and it’s cool”, the idea of Bin Laden repenting just reminded me of it for some reason because on earth he was about as bad of a man as you can be… so if he’s in heaven… we’ve all got a shot!!!
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benidict
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I am truly amazed by many of my fellow Cathlolics and their misunderstanding of what and who we are dealing with. If in fact Catholics in ages past, thought like yall did. You may very well be speaking Arabic and chanting Muslim prayers right now :bowdown::bowdown:. I shall pray the scales fall from your eyes as to who and what we are dealing with. 
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BVM_1221
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Perhaps we have a misunderstanding here?I am truly amazed by many of my fellow Cathlolics and their misunderstanding of what and who we are dealing with. If in fact Catholics in ages past, thought like yall did. You may very well be speaking Arabic and chanting Muslim prayers right now :bowdown::bowdown:. I shall pray the scales fall from your eyes as to who and what we are dealing with.
I cannot speak for any of the other Catholics in this forum. Just for myself.
When I state that I “forgive” Bin Laden, I am not saying I have or will forget what he has done. :dts:
Nor have I said I condone what he has done. To forgive is not to forget nor condone.
But I ask God to forgive him, as he has forgiven me. “Forgive us our tresspasses, as we forgive those who have trespassed against us.”
Did Bin Laden ask for forgiveness as he was dieing? I don’t know, and neither do you. I have prayed to God that the Holy Spirit gave him the grace of a true contrition for his sins. I have done the footwork, and am leaving the results up to God.
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honestquestions
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This is one reason why atheists feel your sense of morality is horrific.
Take for instance that I do not believe in your god. I am a very charitable, kind person who contributes to society, and yet you think your god should send me to torture for eternity because I do not believe in/follow him. And yet you think someone as horrific as Osama who has committed a lifetime of inhumane acts deserves everlasting peace if he suddenly changed his mind.
This isn’t why I don’t believe (I don’t because due to a lack of evidence). But if it were proven, I certainly would not worship that code of morality.
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kbwall
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I mean no insensitivity to the Jews or the thousands that were victims of terrorists. But I’m just saying, the Christian rules don’t really make sense unless they apply to all. Either Jesus came for all sinners or He came for none. God tells us to love, there are no exceptions, not even for cases of extreme cruelty. There is no cutoff point for sin documented. With exception of the unforgivable sin.
This is all moot hypotheticals though, as it’s stated that it’s extremely unlikely for such people to have such a sudden change of heart. These changes usually happen gradually, if they happen at all.
This is all moot hypotheticals though, as it’s stated that it’s extremely unlikely for such people to have such a sudden change of heart. These changes usually happen gradually, if they happen at all.
Well, I don’t know your life, so I can’t say if you’d go to Hell or not. But the conditions are similar for you. You can get to Heaven by changing your ways.
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honestquestions
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Changing my already moral ways? You might want to read your bible - it says I must believe in him - that’s the difference.
Stop beating around the bush. Is it or is not possible for someone to live by the same moral actions that you live by but yet not believe in your god? And do you think that someone fitting this description deserves to burn forever in torture? (Don’t answer with what god thinks - I’m asking what YOU think).
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pira114
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I would argue that he did affect us all personally. As did/do his followers and anyone like them. I do not, and will not, forgive them or pray for them. And I don’t consider this an undue burden on my life. God will forgive those He sees fit to. When I pray, I pray only that God helps me realize the strength He already gave me to face the challenges in my life. That is the only thing I ask for. I don’t see him as a Santa Claus to ask for things. Like forgiving an evil man we are all better off without.Della- As to forgiving bin Laden or Hitler, that is not for us to do unless either one’s actions affected us personally.
ME–Interesting. I may disagree with alot of what you said. But this is completely correct. I applaud you. Most Christians do not realize this, and it is a very Jewish view. God bless you and yours.
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kbwall
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This is veering off topic.
I’m going to answer the last question first because it is easiest. I have no opinion, I don’t think about it, and I don’t judge because it’s not my place. That’s all there is to it. I used to think about it a lot, until I realized what a waste of time it was to fret about things that I have no effect on and has no effect on me. God’s the judge, not me. If it’s not my place to judge, then why worry?
Yes, it is possible for somebody to at least partially abide by Christian morality without being a Christian. In theory anyway, in practise, it’s highly unlikely, given how strict some of the rules are, and considering that one isn’t a Christian one has no reason to abide by some of the rules. Being moral isn’t just about not going around killing people. However, it is near impossible to completely uphold Christian morality flawlessly. Not even other Christians can pull it off. Only Jesus was sinless. And there’s also the fact that, by the very nature of being an atheist, you won’t be getting close to God. And that’s what it all boils down to.
Hell is not just about burning horrible, nasty villains. It’s about seperation from God. When I began to come to grips with God’s justice, it helped me a lot to seperate it from human morality. Heaven and Hell isn’t about nice people and mean people. It’s about your relationship with God. God loves all of us, but He won’t force His love on us. If we don’t love Him back, then there’s just one other place for us to go.
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