Another Confession Question

[Bookcat]

Thanks for the replies they are really helpful.

Since durring my confessions, my intent was not to hide the number of times I committed a certain sin; could they still be valid? I was truly trying to give an accurate representations of the number by using those phrases. My only goal was to avoid being told not to confess in an outdated method. If I didn’t have that fear I would have stated the number to my best approxiamtions.

It is difficult to say here (they could very well be in this case …but that still would leave what need yet to be done)

Bring the matter to another Priest in confession (such as at a different Parish) --one can now examine (this is what I would prepare to do) for any and all mortal sins from those confessions (and if any since of course if there were any) and confess them and also confess what you did regarding not giving the numbers (and how often). One may make an appointment.

Now of course – one may not now know the number - and need now to approximate some of them according to what you now examine. Remember we proceed in humano modo (in a human way) --not vulcano modo (like Spock - it was 23.254 times…) sometimes our memory does not work as we would like it to.

Then you can start fresh for the future - and if one falls into a mortal sin again – confess it as it ought to be confessed.

Two other links from Jimmy Akin that will be of interest regarding confession:

jimmyakin.com/2005/04/confession_vali.html

jimmyakin.com/2006/09/a_reader_writes_1.html

jimmyakin.com/2007/03/specific_confes.html

in which he notes (regarding a person being specific regarding a mortal sin):

“… you would not have invalidated the confession because you believed that you were adequately confessing. You therefore were not deliberately holding anything back that you knew you needed to confess. As long as that’s the case, your confession is formally integral (to use a bit of technical jargon that means you intended to make a complete confession, or one complete enough for validity) and the absolution will be valid.”

 

[Bookcat]

(PS: I will again note that those who may read this or other threads on confession --but who struggle with scrupulosty – that they may be in a different boat than others- for they can start to seek to confess all sorts of unneeded things --they need the guidance of a regular confessor).

 

[C794]

It is difficult to say here (they could very well be in this case …but that still would leave what need yet to be done)

Bring the matter to another Priest in confession (such as at a different Parish) --one can now examine (this is what I would prepare to do) for any and all mortal sins from those confessions (and if any since of course if there were any) and confess them and also confess what you did regarding not giving the numbers (and how often). One may make an appointment.

Now of course – one may not now know the number - and need now to approximate some of them according to what you now examine. Remember we proceed in humano modo (in a human way) --not vulcano modo (like Spock - it was 23.254 times…) sometimes our memory does not work as we would like it to.

Then you can start fresh for the future - and if one falls into a mortal sin again – confess it as it ought to be confessed.

Two other links from Jimmy Akin that will be of interest regarding confession:

jimmyakin.com/2005/04/confession_vali.html

jimmyakin.com/2006/09/a_reader_writes_1.html

jimmyakin.com/2007/03/specific_confes.html

in which he notes (regarding a person being specific regarding a mortal sin):

“… you would not have invalidated the confession because you believed that you were adequately confessing. You therefore were not deliberately holding anything back that you knew you needed to confess. As long as that’s the case, your confession is formally integral (to use a bit of technical jargon that means you intended to make a complete confession, or one complete enough for validity) and the absolution will be valid.”

I’m not really in a position to go to another priest; my only option would be to ask my parish priest about this. I’m actually not sure about his position, my fear comes from what was said by my RCIA instructor. Which makes me hesitate to talk to him; especially if he agrees with my catechist. Also, I’m nervous to ask him since he’s heard my confession. So how should I proceed?

Thanks for the links I found them helpful.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Thanks for the replies they are really helpful.

Since durring my confessions, my intent was not to hide the number of times I committed a certain sin; could they still be valid? I was truly trying to give an accurate representations of the number by using those phrases. My only goal was to avoid being told not to confess in an outdated method. If I didn’t have that fear I would have stated the number to my best approxiamtions.

As I answered previously, yes they are valid.

Go in peace.

You are not obliged to revisit those confessions in any way, however, as you seem to be in some doubt, even “fear” (!), you may revisit them for your own peace of mind. For that reason only (ie. your peace of mind), it would be best to ask another priest so that you can be re-assured that you have a final answer, however, if is this is not possible then ask your confessor directly. He is your lawful judge appointed by the Church, as described above, and healer (as prescribed in canon law), acting in persona Christi. If I was in your position, I would print out this whole thread and take it to him, just so that I were sure that I haven’t omitted anything and can settle it once and for all. It shouldn’t take more than 10 minutes to get it over with.

Do not be afraid of offending him, or going contrary to your RCIA director. He is used to conflicts and misunderstandings such as this, and accepts it is his job to settle it for you.

 

[Bookcat]

I’m not really in a position to go to another priest; my only option would be to ask my parish priest about this. I’m actually not sure about his position, my fear comes from what was said by my RCIA instructor. Which makes me hesitate to talk to him; especially if he agrees with my catechist. Also, I’m nervous to ask him since he’s heard my confession. So how should I proceed?

Thanks for the links I found them helpful.

He cannot have any other “position” that that of the Church Teaching. So it can be simply a misunderstanding here.

Perhaps also – there was simply a miscommunication in terms of the RCIA person - they may have meant to say that one need not focus on numbers when confessing venial sins and that many in the past may have felt they needed to do such -when they do not…

I not knowing the Priest in question etc it can be difficult to give particularly practical advice other than what I noted above (including the need to remedy the situation).

 

[Bookcat]

In addition to what I noted above (and not to be taken as the my answer per se to the original question----such is above)

If I committed mortal sins of murder 5x and I went in and confessed it was 3x and when I left I realized -oh oh it was 5x -then I need to confess it in the next confession.

I was seeking to make an complete confession and was contrite etc -so all 5 murders were absolved --but I still am to confess the other two.

For those other 2 murders have not been confessed.

If I could not remember how many murders but only that it was around 4-5 times -then I could say “around 4-5x”. That would be fine for that is what I know.

As Jimmy Akin notes:

“Correct, though this should be formulated a little differently. You are forgiven if you meant to confess all your mortal sins and just forgot one. Having been forgiven of the one you forgot, you are still obligated to confess it the next time you go to confession. It’s not that your forgiveness of it is conditional on you adopting the intention to confess it next time. That sin has already been forgiven. It’s that you incur a new sin if you refuse to adopt the intention of confessing it.”

jimmyakin.com/2006/09/a_reader_writes_1.html

 

[C794]

He cannot have any other “position” that that of the Church Teaching. So it can be simply a misunderstanding here.

Perhaps also – there was simply a miscommunication in terms of the RCIA person - they may have meant to say that one need not focus on numbers when confessing venial sins and that many in the past may have felt they needed to do such -when they do not…

I not knowing the Priest in question etc it can be difficult to give particularly practical advice other than what I noted above (including the need to remedy the situation).

Thanks.

As I answered previously, yes they are valid. They are also, in my opinion, formally and materially integral, ie. “complete”, as described in the links by Jimmy Akin.

Go in peace.

You are not obliged to revisit those confessions in any way, however, as you seem to be in some doubt, even “fear” (!), you may revisit them for your own peace of mind. For better peace of mind, it would be best to ask another confessor, so that you can be re-assured that you have a final answer, however, is this is not possible, as you indicate below, then ask your confessor directly. He is your lawful judge appointed by the Church, as described above, and healer (as prescribed in canon law), acting in persona Christi. If I was in your position, I would print out this whole thread and take it to him, just so that I were sure that I haven’t omitted anything and can settle it once and for all. It shouldn’t take more than 10 minutes to get it over with.

Thanks; in regards to me saying “fear,” I was meaning that I feared mentioning the number, not so much about the validity of my confession. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Bookcat]

In addition to what I noted above (and not to be taken as the my answer per se to the original question----such is above)

If I committed mortal sins of murder 5x and I went in and confessed it was 3x and when I left I realized -oh oh it was 5x -then I need to confess it in the next confession.

I was seeking to make an complete confession and was contrite etc -so all 5 murders were absolved --but I still am to confess the other two.

For those other 2 murders have not been confessed directly.

If I could not remember how many murders but only that it was around 4-5 times -then I could say “around 4-5x”. That would be fine for that is what I know.

As Jimmy Akin notes:

“Correct, though this should be formulated a little differently. You are forgiven if you meant to confess all your mortal sins and just forgot one. Having been forgiven of the one you forgot, you are still obligated to confess it the next time you go to confession. It’s not that your forgiveness of it is conditional on you adopting the intention to confess it next time. That sin has already been forgiven. It’s that you incur a new sin if you refuse to adopt the intention of confessing it.”

jimmyakin.com/2006/09/a_reader_writes_1.html

 

[Bookcat]

You are not obliged to revisit those confessions in any way

Such would not be the case as noted in above posts.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Such would not be the case as noted in above posts.

I see nothing in the above posts to support this statement.

In my informed opinion, if one has used an approximation, such as “several”, or “a few”, while intending to confess the correct number, and following instructions to the best of one’s ability, and such has been heard by the priest, and absolution received, then the confession is complete. One is not obliged to revisit it.

Your informed opinion is different.

It is unlikely that either of us will find a direct, authoritative ruling on this question, therefore I recommend that the OP settle it with his confessor.

I am done with this, with respect to looking at new information. However, I am happy to apologise if I missed something important in your posts, following my first para (“I see nothing…”).

 

[Gavroche]

This thread caught my eye and was hoping someone could settle something that is making me feel uneasy. In my mid teen years I sort of had a reawakening of faith in me, and I learned more about the faith including the distinction between mortal and venial sins and was shocked at the gravity of certain sins I committed on a habitual basis. I went to confession and named all the objectively grave sins I could recall (even though I wasn’t cognoscente of the gravity at the time, if I was I certainly would have rushed to confession ASAP) and since I didn’t know the exact number I used “many many times” to express it. Anyways, I began to feel more insecure about that confession, thinking I may not have confessed properly so I resolved to make a general confession some years later and I tried to rephrase things so (still not being able to put any number on it) I went for the frequency path saying that I committed sins X, Y, and Z a countless number of times (meaning so many times I couldn’t remember) between this year and that year.

Was this sufficient? I always thought it was, and keep in mind this was a re-confessing of a past confession, I was just rephrasing it to try and give a more accurate depiction. Is it required of me to confess for a third time to try and be even more specific? Looking back I think that maybe there was a way I could have even been more specific if perhaps detailing not just on a yearly basis but perhaps a weekly or daily basis that I committed certain sins. Also keep in mind, as I mentioned above, I never committed a grave sin knowing it was grave. I was 15 back then and I didn’t know about the realities of the distinction between venial and mortal sin or the specifics about what things were considered venial or mortal. May sound outrageous but it seems that perhaps CCD classes need to bring more attention to this point, because I cannot recall ever being taught the distinction, and if I was, it may have been so vague that I just didn’t get the hard message that single mortal sins can get you damned if you do not repent.

 

[Miss_Dee_LS]

I don’t really think it is necessary to ‘re-confess’ you confession
Unless you purposely and willingly did not tell of a ‘grave’ sin that you knew you committed, were aware of it when you went into the confessional but chose not to tell… :tsktsk:
I really don’t think our Priests want us keeping tabs on our sins as far a numbering them…lol
God above, knows how many times we have committed them, it’s more or less to make ourselves aware of how many times we did it! That’s my opinion, to keep reminding us that we have sinned over and over again…

As far as CCD goes, I am a 4th grade instructor (one of the lost years between 1st Communion and Confirmation) and our study guide is pretty much all over the board, so I do take the time and add in certain things that I feel are most important to their age… Namely the 10 Commandments, The Beatitudes and a lot about sinning/what to confess/why, etc.
Even though it is briefly just mentioned in their book, I feel it important enough to spend weeks on the subject. As a matter of fact, even though it is not necessary, they have all given up something as a sacrifice for Lent… just to see if they can say no to temptation! AND it is working, so far
Again, these are my opinions only…I hope it helps