Another Contraception Thread - serious health concern

[kozlosap]

As a Catholic, you know fully well (or should know) that any mortal sin destroys grace within us and cuts us off from the life of Christ. It doesn’t matter if you are shot in the head, fall down the stairs, or overdose on sleeping pills; dead is dead regardless of the mechanism that brings it about.

Of course I have read the CCC.

Do you think that I’m the only cradle Catholic that looks at those obsessed with the issue of ABC and wonders what will happen? Papa Francis is on the right track (at least for this 62 year old person) when he proclaimed early in his reign that the Church needs to stop obsessing about ABC. I am much more concerned with what we appear to be embracing, racism and nationalism.

 

[kozlosap]

Does the scale of mortal sin affect the heat of the flames of hell?

Hell is probably full of people arguing over who’s sin was worse.
That’s human nature. Prisons are full of that kind of rationale. But guess what? They are all in prison…

Yes, but we live in a world where most legal systems do differentiate between the seriousness of the crimes committed. You are an attorney, you understand my perspective as a retired teacher - to me, murder and rape and judging another person because of the color of their skin makes the use of ABC look trivial.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Of course I have read the CCC.

Do you think that I’m the only cradle Catholic that looks at those obsessed with the issue of ABC and wonders what will happen? Papa Francis is on the right track (at least for this 62 year old person) when he proclaimed early in his reign that the Church needs to stop obsessing about ABC. I am much more concerned with what we appear to be embracing, racism and nationalism.

The Pope right points out that there are many things which need our attention, but that does not mean that we should stop preaching the truth about the evils of contraceptives.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Yes, but we live in a world where most legal systems do differentiate between the seriousness of the crimes committed. You are an attorney, you understand my perspective as a retired teacher - to me, murder and rape and judging another person because of the color of their skin makes the use of ABC look trivial.

The recent Ebola outbreak looks insignificant when compared to the Small Pox outbreaks in the early 20th century. That doesn’t make either epidemic any less deadly or worthy of our concern and attention.

 

[jmjZelie]

Of course I have read the CCC.

Do you think that I’m the only cradle Catholic that looks at those obsessed with the issue of ABC and wonders what will happen? Papa Francis is on the right track (at least for this 62 year old person) when he proclaimed early in his reign that the Church needs to stop obsessing about ABC. I am much more concerned with what we appear to be embracing, racism and nationalism.

Is this thread about Slime and his legitimate questions inquiring into the Catholic faith, or is it about your impressions and preferences? You keep bringing up non-related issues: murder, racism and nationalism. You are also accusing other Catholics of being obsessed for merely being truthful about the Church’s teachings. This is disingenuous. And it is not fair to Slime, whose thread this is.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Yes, but we live in a world where most legal systems do differentiate between the seriousness of the crimes committed. You are an attorney, you understand my perspective as a retired teacher - to me, murder and rape and judging another person because of the color of their skin makes the use of ABC look trivial.

I’m not an attorney. Why would you accuse me of such s thing!?
Not to completely derail the thread but is racism a mortal sin?

 

[Usige]

Of course I have read the CCC.

Do you think that I’m the only cradle Catholic that looks at those obsessed with the issue of ABC and wonders what will happen? Papa Francis is on the right track (at least for this 62 year old person) when he proclaimed early in his reign that the Church needs to stop obsessing about ABC. I am much more concerned with what we appear to be embracing, racism and nationalism.

If this was a thread about racism I would be talking about the sinfulness about racism, but it’s not. Funny thing is I see zero in this thread about either racism, murder or nationalism so I really don’t see the purpose of trying to deflect focus on the question except to trivialize it.

I would rather someone who obsess about proclaiming the truth than someone who trivializes sin. There are plenty of Catholics (cradle and convert) who lead others astray by saying X isn’t so bad, or Y is worse. Christ was very clear that those whole lead others to sin will not fair well. You know… that whole thing about a mill stone and being dropped into the sea.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I couldn’t agree more. I take communion very seriously, even where I go to church now. We are told to examine ourselves and never take communion in an unworthy manor. I understand that may not seem like communion to a Catholic, but that’s where I come from. I would have no desire to “fake it”. That’s why I’m asking these questions in the first place. Thanks for the response.

This post shows your character and maturity. I am so glad that although it was not the answer you want to hear you appreciated my response.
I encourage you to continue to seek out the Catholic Church and if this is a stumbling block to you I encourage you to to dive deep into the theology of sexuality of the Catholic Church. Starting with humane vitae. You can see it on the Vatican website.

Would that all people took thier faith and choice of faith as seriously as you do.

 

[jmjZelie]

Funny thing is I see zero in this thread about either racism, murder or nationalism so I really don’t see the purpose of trying to deflect focus on the question except to trivialize it.

I would rather someone who obsess about proclaiming the truth than someone who trivializes sin…

Yes

We do people no favors if we do not tell them the truth, especially when they ask for the truth. True Christian charity demands we give them the truth, actually.

 

[Joe_5859]

Contraceptive use is a bigger mortal sin than murder or racism?

Who said that?

 

[edwest2]

Forgive me.

Ed

 

[Bookcat]

From the Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI

497. When is it moral to regulate births?

2368-2369
2399

The regulation of births, which is an aspect of responsible fatherhood and motherhood, is objectively morally acceptable when it is pursued by the spouses without external pressure; when it is practiced not out of selfishness but for serious reasons; and with methods that conform to the objective criteria of morality, that is, periodic continence and use of the infertile periods.

498. What are immoral means of birth control?

2370-2372

Every action - for example, direct sterilization or contraception - is intrinsically immoral which (either in anticipation of the conjugal act, in its accomplishment or in the development of its natural consequences) proposes, as an end or as a means, to hinder procreation.

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

 

[Bookcat]

The end does not justify the means.

Contraception is a gravely evil means and as such cannot be chosen.

Indeed contraception was understood as evil from the early days of the Church and held to be so even by the Protestant communities that formed since the 16th century -up until around 1930 when some of them started to change this (see Catholic Answers tract in the main site).

When one has such a need to avoid a new conception may choose only morally good means - that is: “periodic continence” of which NFP is a recent example.

• (aside from continence which may be needful in certain cases)-

 

[maryjk]

I’m actually kind of sorry I asked. NFP isn’t going to happen. I understand NFP is pushed for in this community as much as staying away from vaccines is in the circles I run with. People are extremely passionate about it.

One really doesn’t have anything to do with the other. I used NFP and I have no problems or issues with vaccines.

I do not question that the Catholic Church has a firm belief as related to birth control. I do want to know if there is any way to be in full community with the Catholic Church and still use various methods of contraception.

As others have said, no. To intentionally turn away from the Church’s teaching on contraception is a sin.

I have started talking more and more to the priest at the local parish and I will be talking to him about this…

And, again, as others have said, if he tells you that it is okay to use ABC, then he is wrong.

Just a note. I also had severe medical reasons to avoid pregnancy. The reason I said “had” is because those problems eventually got bad enough that I needed a hysterectomy. I used NFP for more than 10 years.

 

[Slime13]

And, again, as others have said, if he tells you that it is okay to use ABC, then he is wrong.

I really don’t want to be snarky. I’m just starting to learn. So I will ask, is this forum the authority in the Catholic Church over a priest? I think I already know the answer…I’m just shocked that people with such strong beliefs in what is proper in the church claim authority over priests. Maybe you all are priests, I don’t know.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I really don’t want to be snarky. I’m just starting to learn. So I will ask, is this forum the authority in the Catholic Church over a priest? I think I already know the answer…I’m just shocked that people with such strong beliefs in what is proper in the church claim authority over priests. Maybe you all are priests, I don’t know.

No, you have got it backwards. PRIESTS cannot claim authority over the church. It happens that they try, often. I have confessed birth control to a priest who told me it was not a sin. Does that make it right? No!
Sadly there are often priest who either don’t know or are misled in the faith in this matter. It isn’t that posters here outrank priests, it’s that what has been posted is church teaching which outranks a priest. By the way there are clergy on here too.
So, a priest who is faithful an knowledgable cannot advise you against the faith. Though sadly some priests try.

You would be surprised how many times I have had to cut father off and remind him I am there for absolution and not a debate…

 

[Usige]

I really don’t want to be snarky. I’m just starting to learn. So I will ask, is this forum the authority in the Catholic Church over a priest? I think I already know the answer…I’m just shocked that people with such strong beliefs in what is proper in the church claim authority over priests. Maybe you all are priests, I don’t know.

No, members of CAF are not the authority, but the Pope is. The Pope has spoken about it on multiple occasions (Humanae Vitae and Casti Connubii to name 2 of the biggies). If a priest is speaking in direct opposition to the implicit teaching of the Church, they are by definition wrong. A priest can never validly teach as good, what the universal teaching of the Church has repeatedly rejected.

 

[edwest2]

Members of CAF are not the authority(ies), but I, and I assume others, would gladly provide the answer links to the authoritative teachings of the Church.

Humanae Vitae

w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae.html

Best,
Ed

 

[Kelfa28]

OP…in terms of what the Church teaches…you can read the Catechism or various documents to be clear what the Church teaches.

You’ll see that the posters here are correct, in terms of Contraception and how it pertains to being Catholic.

Please, do not listen to advertisements from posters here about the effectiveness of NFP.

They are not the authority on it. You need to speak to a priest or a doctor about NFP.

Do not take advise from these boards on how effective it is or it isn’t.

It is not up to us to try and convince you about using NFP and making promises about how effective it is or isn’t.

It can be very, very dangerous taking advice from random people you don’t know about a method you don’t know much about.
Especially since it’s a life and death situation with your wife.

You are here to ask questions about the morality of contraception…not to be advertised about NFP stats.

Please don’t listen to those posters and if you have questions about NFP or anything else…consult your priest, the Catholic bioethics center (links were posted, I believe) or a reputable doctor you can trust.

It isn’t up to us to make claims about NFP to other people. No one is required to use it anyway.

 

[Slime13]

OP…in terms of what the Church teaches…you can read the Catechism or various documents to be clear what the Church teaches.

You’ll see that the posters here are correct, in terms of Contraception and how it pertains to being Catholic.

Please, do not listen to advertisements from posters here about the effectiveness of NFP.

They are not the authority on it. You need to speak to a priest or a doctor about NFP.

Do not take advise from these boards on how effective it is or it isn’t.

It is not up to us to try and convince you about using NFP and making promises about how effective it is or isn’t.

It can be very, very dangerous taking advice from random people you don’t know about a method you don’t know much about.
Especially since it’s a life and death situation with your wife.

You are here to ask questions about the morality of contraception…not to be advertised about NFP stats.

Please don’t listen to those posters and if you have questions about NFP or anything else…consult your priest, the Catholic bioethics center (links were posted, I believe) or a reputable doctor you can trust.

It isn’t up to us to make claims about NFP to other people. No one is required to use it anyway.

THANK YOU! That’s refreshing.