Another Day for Isalm

[Valke2]

Oh please. You’re an adult, I’m sure. It’s quite clear that you were trying to make an insulting insinuation. Please don’t hide behind passive-aggressive tactics.

I’m truly surprised that my post was received that way. I’m not shy about stating my opinions. I wasn’t building a strawman argument and I didn’t post the OP because I knew it would result in this type of arguing. I truly thougtht that perhaps some people got carried away on other threads and I wanted to provide the just a single thread where people could have the opportunity to do a little damage control and say something positive.

In terms of preaching to others, everyone who comes to this board knows full well that it is a CATHOLIC board. it’s reasonable to expect that Catholics think that their faith is best, even as Muslims and Jews think the same of their faith.

It is reasonable to think your faith is best for you. It is not reasonable to keep telling someone that their faith sucks and that they are members of a terrorist cult.

Remember, you’re part of the group that actually calls itself “The Chosen People”… so glass houses do apply.

Chosen to receive Torah. ANd the people God chose to reveal Himself to as a nation. I don’t think I’ve spent a great deal of time on Non-Catholic Religions talking about why Catholicism is wrong and Judaism is right. To me, that would be rude.

That’s funny… I’m on these boards too, and I do see Muslims attacking Christianity. So, maybe we’re on different boards?

But not everything is an attack, either.

Is it fair to brand all Muslims as being perpetrators of that crime? Of course not. But it is legitimate to ask whether that behavior does in fact speak not to a corruption of the philosophy but whether or not the philosophy itself is corrupt.

And that could be a legitimate conversation that might yield productive results. But the reality is that such conversations are 90% “Mohammed was a child molestor, muslims belong to a cult of terror” and 10% rational.

And all that begs the question, is it really that difficult to acknowledge something positive about Islam without attaching a “but” to it?

 

[Valke2]

Very commendable, but you know Freemasons give to charity too, but the Church forbids us to be members.

No one’s asking you to join (at least not me).

 

[Valke2]

Consider it done! And while we’re at it, lets see if our Muslim friends can reciprocate by not claiming that the non-Islamic world is unjustly criticizing them for the negative attention that they have received as a result of those Muslims who see violence as foundational to their faith. Sound fair enough? Shalom my friend.

Sounds ok. But too many fancy words. I’d like to see Muslims refrain from verbally attacking Christanity as well. Shalom to you as well (do I say “God be with you”)?

 

[Valke2]

Mother theresa said, what ever you are, muslim, jew, christian, hindu, buddhist…be the best one you can be…

i have a couple of muslim friends, and i pray for them everyday, and I hope they pray for me, cause i need lots of it.

as right as everyone is, in some way, even if small, that does not give license to be un-Christ like…

Peace of the Lord be with you all…

excellent.

 

[RomanCrusader]

I’m still appalled and sickened by that Catechism statement that says Moslems can expect salvation.

Our Holy Church has always taught that Christ is the way alone and that the only way one should expect salvation is directly through Him. We don’t know for sure if all heathens are damned, but its certainly possible.

The Moslem religion is bad. Not as evil as atheism, but still pretty close.

Blessed Pope Urban II condemned Islam as evil:

“O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race (Islam), which worships demons…”

“wrest that land from the wicked race (Islam)”

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Okay, I will bite. I will say something that will get pro’s attention (not that it’s any great difficulty).

Not all Muslims are bad people. In fact, most Muslims are (reasonably) good people. So what if they turn a blind eye to Muhammad’s evil - they do find some solace and ‘truth’ (whatever that is) in the Quran. Islam does comfort them. They, personally, don’t oppress anybody. So they make anti-semitic statements, “death to Umrika”, every chance they can. Hey, it’s just all hot air. Some of them even think the Jihadists are not following the tenets of the religion of peace. Because Islam means peace, right? So what if Muhammad commanded his followers (i.e. Muslims) to fight (qatiloo = kill/massacre) the non-believers until they believe in Allah or pay the Jizyah in submission and humiliation. It’s not as if the non-believers did not have it coming to them - they rejected Allah so they have to pay the price. It’s the will of Allah.

What I can tell you is that the Muslims, most of whom wouldn’t even hurt a fly even if it crawled up their noses, worship the God of Abraham, so it makes them good and that their religion is the true religion.

I can also tell you that the Muslims contribute to zakat, compulsorily of course, but hey, charity is charity, even if it goes to support the families of the Jihadists who blow themselves up in the name of Allah. This zakat gives comfort to the murderers (I mean the legitimate freedom fighters who make the ultimate sacrifice for the God of Abraham) so they can kill unsuspecting mothers and babies in buses. It’s all the fault of the evil Zionist Jews and Imperialist Americans anyway.

I can tell you that Muslims invite their non-Muslim friends to their Eid feasts. Well, some of them do anyway. This proves that Islam is the true religion and Muhammad was a good man, despite what the Islamic sources say about him murdering people, raiding caravans, attacking unsuspecting villages, enslaving women and children. Hey, it’s the fault of the evil Zionist Jews and Imperialist Americans.

For pro and other Muslims: don’t think we don’t know about Islam. I married a Muslim woman and have Muslim relatives. I know that Islam is the religion of peace - and that Jihad is a kind of dance Muslims do when they’re feeling really happy and contented with the world. It’s a kind of dance that tells the non-Muslims that Muslims love them. A bit like the tango but more, uh, how should I put it, explosive.

So, I suppose from personal experience, reading the Quran (hate/kill/oppress the infidels) to the hadiths (hate/kill/oppress the infidels) to the sira (hate/kill/oppress the infidels), I must finally admit that Islam is truly the religion of peace. And I will behead you if you disagree.

I guess Zachariah Anani, the ex-Muslim ex-PLO terrorist said, '“A lot of people think that Islam is okay and that those who are making these terrorist attacks are not from Islam. It’s actually the other way around. The people who are nice are not really true Muslims—all you have to do is read the doctrine. Chapter (9) of the Qur’an is nothing but a declaration of war.”
christianity.ca/seekinggod/god-makes-a-difference/2003/06.001.html

Yes, most Muslims are good people. Thank god for that.

Let us construct a score sheet:

1. Muhammad murdered people. Yes, Islam is the religion of peace.
2. Muhammad enslaved people. Yes, Islam is the religion of peace.
3. Muhammad attacked caravans. Yes, Islam is the religion of peace.
4. Muhammad annihilated the Jews of Arabia. Yes, Islam is the religion of peace.
5. Muhammad made a Jewess marry and have sex with him the day after he killed her husband, father and all her male relatives. Yes, Islam is the religion of peace.
6. Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old CHILD. Yes, Islam is the religion of peace. Yes, you heard me right - a 9 year old child.

Don’t worry about that. All that is important is that the Quran tells Muslims to ‘kill the non-believers until they worship Allah alone or pay the Jizyah with humiliation.’

1.2 billion Muslims can’t be wrong. Islam is the religion of peace and shame on all of you who think otherwise. If you disagree, I will behead you.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’d like to see Muslims refrain from verbally attacking Christanity as well.

Personally, I would be satisfied if they simply stopped killing, enslaving and raping Christians. Then I wouldn’t care what they said.

 

[inJESUS]

i’ll have to agree with Rodrigo. I live among Muslims. Our family’s best friend is an Egyptian Muslim man. He, once, and without any reason ( Holiday or anything), he brought us a beautiful Schwarovski Cross as a present. On Christmas, believe it or not, HE is the one who always puts the Christmas tree if he happens to be in our country and he buys us presents. His best friend is Coptic and he goes with his Christian friends to church, to the point that many do not even know he is Muslim.

that’s an example of a great Muslim man. Another example would be the one i met on street, a “true” Muslim from his looks, who looked at my cross and said : Allah’s curse on you.

Who is the true Muslim between these 2? it is the one who said : may Allah curse you. Why? because that’s what the Quran says:

"Allah’s curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth."
**
‘May Allah curse Jews and Christians for they turned the graves of their Prophets into places of worship’**.

When he (muhammad) felt short of breath, he removed it, and said, ‘That is so! Allah’s curse be on Jews and Christians!’"

So Valke2, no one is saying that no Muslim is good. There are millions who are good. But are they following Islam? are they following the “spirit” of Islam?
of course many can quote good teachings about treating non-Muslims, but here lies the problem. Which one is to be followed? fight them until religion is for Allah? Allah’s curse be on them? How perverted and disbelievers they are? or the good stuff? how can you love others if the Quran and ahadith show great hatred? how can you love others if Muhammad cursed them? Muhammad was like all men …he sometimes loved, and sometimes hated…he sometimes showed tolerance, and sometimes murdered for trivial reasons. Yet according to Muslims, he was THE ideal to follow. So who do we blame when Muslims immitate the atrocities of Muhammad? when a Muslim does something good, we say it’s because of Islam…but when he does something bad, why should we say it is against Islam if his ideal role model did it before? i think that’s why people have a hard time trying associating Islam with peace.

 

[Eireann]

No one’s asking you to join (at least not me).

I know, it was an analogy, I don’t have a problem with Muslims if they don’t have a problem with me, there is good and bad in everything, for **some **though, their goodness is a smoke-screen, not saying all, some.

 

[Valke2]

I know, it was an analogy, I don’t have a problem with Muslims if they don’t have a problem with me, there is good and bad in everything, for **some **though, their goodness is a smoke-screen, not saying all, some.

Of course. Take any 20 people off the street and you are going to find some who’s actions are false.

 

[Valke2]

i’ll have to agree with Rodrigo. I live among Muslims. Our family’s best friend is an Egyptian Muslim man. He, once, and without any reason ( Holiday or anything), he brought us a beautiful Schwarovski Cross as a present. On Christmas, believe it or not, HE is the one who always puts the Christmas tree if he happens to be in our country and he buys us presents. His best friend is Coptic and he goes with his Christian friends to church, to the point that many do not even know he is Muslim.

that’s an example of a great Muslim man. Another example would be the one i met on street, a “true” Muslim from his looks, who looked at my cross and said : Allah’s curse on you.

Who is the true Muslim between these 2? it is the one who said : may Allah curse you. Why? because that’s what the Quran says:

**“Allah’s curse **be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth.”
**
‘May Allah curse **Jews and Christians for they turned the graves of their Prophets into places of worship’.

**When he (muhammad) felt short of breath, he removed it, and said, ‘That is so! Allah’s curse **be on Jews and Christians!’"

So Valke2, no one is saying that no Muslim is good. There are millions who are good. But are they following Islam? are they following the “spirit” of Islam?
of course many can quote good teachings about treating non-Muslims, but here lies the problem. Which one is to be followed? fight them until religion is for Allah? Allah’s curse be on them? How perverted and disbelievers they are? or the good stuff? how can you love others if the Quran and ahadith show great hatred? how can you love others if Muhammad cursed them? Muhammad was like all men …he sometimes loved, and sometimes hated…he sometimes showed tolerance, and sometimes murdered for trivial reasons. Yet according to Muslims, he was THE ideal to follow. So who do we blame when Muslims immitate the atrocities of Muhammad? when a Muslim does something good, we say it’s because of Islam…but when he does something bad, why should we say it is against Islam if his ideal role model did it before? i think that’s why people have a hard time trying associating Islam with peace.

If there are millions who are following Islam in a way that is “good”, who are we to conclude they are not “true muslims”? Everytime a muslim does a charitable act in accordance with their faith, or refrains from doing a hostile act, the are not “true muslims”?

You don’t see something flawed in that reasoning? What about Mother Theresa’s statement that if someone is christian, jew or muslim, we should help them be the best christian, jew or muslim they can be??

 

[inJESUS]

If there are millions who are following Islam in a way that is “good”, who are we to conclude they are not “true muslims”? Everytime a muslim does a charitable act in accordance with their faith, or refrains from doing a hostile act, the are not “true muslims”?

You don’t see something flawed in that reasoning? What about Mother Theresa’s statement that if someone is christian, jew or muslim, we should help them be the best christian, jew or muslim they can be??

i have absolutely no problem with what you said that’s why i already said that people blame the bad side of Islam, not the good. And all posters, even the most radical ones regarding Islam, already said that they are not talking about all Muslims or all Islamic teachings.

 

[kellie]

See? There, you just offended Moslems and Islam.

I think Valke2 wants us all to acknowledge the “fact” that Christianity is no better than Islam. According to him Christianity is not better than Islam and neither is Judaism better than Islam. He’s trying to make a point that all religion is the same. No matter how much Christians on this forum explain to him that their problem is not with Moslems but only with Islam, he will not listen and will keep stating his false ideas. But no matter how much you ignore us Valke2, the fact remains that Christians are the most tolerant of all people on Earth. If they were not then you would have been banned here a long time ago. Just keep using your twisted provocative methods but always remember that in the end the truth always comes out, the truth that you are trying to paint an ugly picture of a beautiful people, culture and religion. Valke2, why don’t you go and do something truthful and constructive for a change. Stop provoking Christians so that you can then use their defensive responses in order to try and prove something that’s only a “fact” to people with a hidden agenda such as yourself.

I am Catholic, and I am sorry if it offends, but I think ALL other religions are wrong.

I was trying to explain that sometimes we need to seperate the religion from the person, and just be happy for the person for they are humans just like us.

 

[Ridgerunner]

For me, belief in the charity of Muslims is challenged when 3,000 innocent people are murdered in NYC and Muslims in vast numbers take to the streets to celebrate the event. It is challenged when conversion from Islam is punishable by death; when one can be imprisoned for going to Mass. It is challenged when Christians are enslaved, raped or killed simply because they are Christians in Muslim lands, and not one of those 1.2 billion lifts a finger to stop it. It is severely challenged when I stop to think that all of those who, on here, have said anything critical of Islam, rightly or wrongly, would die for saying it if they did not live in the West. It is challenged when one realizes that, in an Islamic land, few, if any, of those Muslims who seem so outwardly friendly when in this country, would so much as speak against outrages committed against Christians or Jews, let alone intervene or insist on punishment of the perpetrators.

Muslims in great numbers come to the West secure in the knowledge that they will live in peace here. Christians in great numbers left and are leaving Islamic lands because they cannot live in peace there. The great majority of the world’s Jews elect to live in Christian lands, not in Muslim lands. It is difficult to see the many contrasts and still conclude that true charity is greatly valued in Islam.

 

[Philthy]

Have you read the entire post?

Yes. And just so I can demonstrate my grasp of it and fulfill the request of the OP, let me say that I am grateful for any Muslim who exhibits love towards neighbor.

loginus:

This was a thread intended to calm ppl down and it was twisted into a malicious hate post.

Really? Care to show me where the purpose of this thread was stated? The OP was nothing short of posting a challenge to:
A) Find something good to say about Islam, Muslims or Arabs or
B) Not post anything at all.

loginus:

If anyone is at all curious, the reason I left Christianity is because of ppl like those who responded. Instead of leaving a harmless post alone, they went out of their way to vent their hatred for an entire religion/ppl.

Your reasons for leaving Christianity are irrelevent to the thread. If the reason you left is because of people, care to share with us the group of people you have joined that are inherently, actively superior to the group you left?
And further, I have no idea why you are writing these comments in response to my post. Was there something in it which did not fulfill the requirements of the OP? If so, please quote it and show me which part was “malicious”.

loginus:

I figure neither God nor Jesus promoted intolerance, hatred, or arrogance. I have no problem with Jesus’ teachings, its just Ill never see them if I had remained in christianity

Sure, that makes perfect sense.

 

[RomanCrusader]

Deus Vult!

 

[JoshuaJ]

So are you looking for agreement with your thoughts or facts (as far as I know). I’ll sign on as being in agreement.

Fundamentalism has its roots in oppression, whether its in Muslim Saudi Arabia or Christian Alabama.

God will begin to prosper you for money always follows righteousness. This is a lie, an abomination in God’s eyes. Instead of quoting Benny Hinn, why don’t you give us a scriptural reference.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

http://www.africanwanderings.com/wp-content/crusades.jpg

Deus Vult!

Hey WebCrusader!
Do you feel good now?
It is easy to for you to do the same thing as what you have shown in the above picture you know; don’t be a coward, go enroll in the US army. You can satisfy you thirst for Moosleeen blood in Irak and Afghanistan; there you can kill as many Mooosleems as you want. but don’t get caught my friend :tsktsk: , we could see in the internet your head rolling on the ground :crying:
Peace to the peace lovers and may God forgive the WebCrusaders. Ameen.

A wise man said " Hatred is just, it starts by killing the one harboring it!"

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[DILCIA]

Sorry but got to keep the Catechism quotes going! 843
“The Catholic church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things, and wants men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as a ‘preparation for the Gospel, and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life’”
844
In their religious behaviour, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:
Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate dispair.
As I understand it Jesus will judge us when we die and this life is only a short span, there is no point in getting angry with anyone or annoyed. We have to think of eternal life because that is what matters, not the problems of this world. Yes we have to make it a better place and help people, but that is si we can get as many people to heaven with us as we can but WITH LOVE!!!XXXXXXX

 

[Milliardo]

I do not know if Islam is a religion of peace, though I always say it is. However, the actions of some indicate otherwise. I am not talking about terrorists or those who demonstrate and destroy everything; consider this incident which happened in a hotel here in Metro Manila just a few days ago:

**Muslim solon attacks waitress for serving pork

**
Rep. Faysah Dumarpa of Lanao del Sur’s First District is accused of attacking a waitress at a dinner event Monday at the Shangri-La Finest Chinese Cuisine restaurant in Batasan Complex, Quezon City.
**The incident happened during the South Lounge gathering of congressmen when the waitress identified as Virginia Altamirano accidentally served pork to Dumarpa - a Muslim. **
Altamirano said she immediately apologized to Dumarpa after realizing her mistake. “She did not accept my apologies. Instead, she yelled at me and slapped me in the face,” Altamirano said.
**A furious Dumarpa allegedly grabbed a table knife and attempted to attack Altamirano but a fellow congressman stopped her. **
In an official statement, Dumarpa condemned the negligence of the restaurant.
**“What I did was my natural reaction on a situation where I felt betrayed… It is the policy of the House of Representatives that only Halal foods (food allowed for consumption by Islam) shall be served to Muslim congressmen and this has been relayed to you (Shangi-La restaurant) as a concessionaire.” **
**She asked the restaurant’s owner to terminate all crew members involved in the incident. **
"Unintentional consumption of such meat would hinder me from gaining entrance to paradise beyond dietary concerns. This is a matter of faith," she added.
Altamirano has yet to decide if she will press charges against the congresswoman. Possible charges against Dumarpa include grave threat and physical injuries.

**I don’t see the point why she has to attack the waitress and even threaten her with a knife; she is a member of Congress, after all, and it’s enough to complain to the manager if she felt she was slighted.
**