Another EMHC issue

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idrum677

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Has anyone ever seen this scenerio:

During the Agnus Dei, the EMHC goes up to the tabernacle to take out additional vessels while the priest breaks the bread.

To me, this seems like the priest taking a shortcut to save time. I’m just taking a stab here here, but I don’t think this is proper.

:knight2:
 
idrum677 said:
Has anyone ever seen this scenerio:

During the Agnus Dei, the EMHC goes up to the tabernacle to take out additional vessels while the priest breaks the bread.

To me, this seems like the priest taking a shortcut to save time. I’m just taking a stab here here, but I don’t think this is proper.

:knight2:
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Par for the course in my parish.

Ideally there should be no need to go to the tabernacle at all until Communion is over and any remaining consecrated Hosts need to be reserved.
 
Okay, I am no liturgist, but I have a feling that this is not permitted. I recall reading somewhere that EMHCs are not to approach until after the priest (celebrant) has concluded self-communicating.

Additionally, I believe that only a priest is permitted to open the Tabernacle.

However, I will defer to those better educated in liturgical practices.

BenedictGal, where are you…
 
rpp said:
Okay, I am no liturgist, but I have a feling that this is not permitted. I recall reading somewhere that EMHCs are not to approach until after the priest (celebrant) has concluded self-communicating.

Additionally, I believe that only a priest is permitted to open the Tabernacle.

However, I will defer to those better educated in liturgical practices.

BenedictGal, where are you…
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You’re right that they are not supposed to be anywhere near the altar at that point.
 
rpp said:
Okay, I am no liturgist, but I have a feling that this is not permitted. I recall reading somewhere that EMHCs are not to approach until after the priest (celebrant) has concluded self-communicating.

Additionally, I believe that only a priest is permitted to open the Tabernacle.

However, I will defer to those better educated in liturgical practices.

BenedictGal, where are you…
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Priest or Deacon to open Tabernacle is preferable, but lay people are permitted to do so.
 
rpp said:
Okay, I am no liturgist, but I have a feling that this is not permitted. I recall reading somewhere that EMHCs are not to approach until after the priest (celebrant) has concluded self-communicating.

Additionally, I believe that only a priest is permitted to open the Tabernacle.

However, I will defer to those better educated in liturgical practices.

BenedictGal, where are you…
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Here is what the GIRM has to say:
***These ministers should not approach the altar before the priest has received Communion, and they are always to receive from the hands of the priest celebrant the vessel containing either species of the Most Holy Eucharist for distribution to the faithful.
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  1. When the distribution of Communion is finished, the priest himself immediately and completely consumes at the altar any consecrated wine that happens to remain; as for any consecrated hosts that are left, he either consumes them at the altar or carries them to the place designated for the reservation of the Eucharist.***
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I hope this citation helps.
 
That would probably be the same as placing them back in the Tabernacle?

I stand corrected on the letter of the law.
 
Phemie said:
Par for the course in my parish.

Ideally there should be no need to go to the tabernacle at all until Communion is over and any remaining consecrated Hosts need to be reserved.
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yeah, but what do you then do with what is in the tabernacle. My Church generally consecrates some of what they need, and then uses what was unconsumed from previous Masses
 
rpp said:
Thank you very much. 👍

What about a lay person opening the Tabernacle and retrieving reserved Host for distribution?
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If you look at the above notation, the priest already has the sacred vessels with him; therefore, the EMHCs don’t go to the tabernacle becaues they have to receive the vessels from the hands of the priest. And, the only way they can do that is if the priest has already gone to the Tabernacle to retrieve them.

I hope this helps.
 
benedictgal said:
If you look at the above notation, the priest already has the sacred vessels with him; therefore, the EMHCs don’t go to the tabernacle becaues they have to receive the vessels from the hands of the priest. And, the only way they can do that is if the priest has already gone to the Tabernacle to retrieve them.

I hope this helps.
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Ahh. Okay. I wish it was more explicit. I think that is where the potential for “abuse by misunderstanding” may creep in.
 
At my parish, the priest goes to the tabernacle himself, usually during the Sign of Peace.

The USCCB says EMHCs should not approach the altar until the priest has received his communion. (cf. NDRHC, nn. 37-38) This means they cannot approach the altar with additional ciboria. They are also forbidden from assisting in the Fraction.
 
japhy said:
At my parish, the priest goes to the tabernacle himself, usually during the Sign of Peace.

The USCCB says EMHCs should not approach the altar until the priest has received his communion. (cf. NDRHC, nn. 37-38) This means they cannot approach the altar with additional ciboria. They are also forbidden from assisting in the Fraction.
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At my parish, the EMHC brings up the ciboria from the tabernacle as all the EMHCs come up, after the priest receives his communion
 
The bigger problem is that the faithful are not all receiving Eucharist consecrated at that particular mass.
 
PaixGioiaAmor said:
The bigger problem is that the faithful are not all receiving Eucharist consecrated at that particular mass.
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How is that a problem?

Personally, I think the biggest problem are the people who present themselves to receive. With such short lines at the confessional, why are the Communion lines so long?
 
PaixGioiaAmor said:
The bigger problem is that the faithful are not all receiving Eucharist consecrated at that particular mass.
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While the Church says it is preferable to receive Hosts consecrated in that particular Mass — She does not say that Hosts consecrated in a prior Mass cannot be offered.

A much–much–much bigger problem would be – for someone to have the false impression that once communion was over – our Lord ceases to exist in the Hosts (crumbs) which were not distributed --therefore said Hosts would not be our Lord’s Body and Blood – if distributed in another Mass.
 
You’re leaving out the best situation ever. The lay people do the fraction while the priest watches, and after everyone is done, the priest and deacon both receive from the EMHC’s.

There is hope, however. I was at a Mass conducted by the Bishop this past weekend (two, actually). Both were huge, where EMHC’s were absolutely needed, or we’d still be there today.

But, at the first one, they had the Bishop, six priests, and a deacon. At the second, they had the Bishop, a deacon, eight priests, and three lay EMHC’s. And the priests assisting in the Mass were vested! That is a huge, huge step in our neck of the woods.
 
rpp said:
Personally, I think the biggest problem are the people who present themselves to receive. With such short lines at the confessional, why are the Communion lines so long?
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Our pastor refuses to schedule confessions (you have to catch him on the fly just before Mass or call to make an appointment) so when an African priest replacing our pastor for a few weeks asked me when confessions were scheduled I just smiled. He said “Oh, yes, I forgot, North Americans don’t sin.”
 
idrum677 said:
Has anyone ever seen this scenerio:

During the Agnus Dei, the EMHC goes up to the tabernacle to take out additional vessels while the priest breaks the bread.

To me, this seems like the priest taking a shortcut to save time. I’m just taking a stab here here, but I don’t think this is proper.

:knight2:
Click to expand...
Yes, this was common here untl the new GRIM. Which pt an end to many of the elements. The EMHC’s do not enter the Sanctuary until after the priest receives Communion and the EMHC’s no longer go to the tabernacle before or after Communion, the priest or deacon does.

Technically the extra Hosts in the tabernacle should not be routinely taken out unless needed.
 
I do not think there is anything specific forbidding a lay person going to the tabernacle during Mass.

Approaching the tabernacle is not approaching the altar. An altar server can be in the sanctuary for the whole Mass. Going to the tabernacle can be the opposite direction to the altar.

Arguments can be made about the tabernacle key being in maximum safe keeping (canon 938). So a parish priest could have such a policy of forbidding lay people going to the tabernacle on this basis.

I agree that extraordinary ministers are “always to receive from the hands of the priest celebrant the vessel containing either species of the Most Holy Eucharist for distribution to the faithful” (GIRM 162). But the practice I often see is the blessed sacrament being brought from the tabernacle, to the altar and then to extraordinary ministers.

The GIRM has: “85. It is most desirable that the faithful, just as the priest himself is bound to do, receive the Lord’s Body from hosts consecrated at the same Mass …”. But desirable is not a requirement, so going to the tabernacle during Mass is not forbidden.
 
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