Another Genesis Question

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Faith1960

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There have already been plenty of posts talking about whether Genesis is to be taken literally or not but what about this:

Douay-Rheims Bible
[And he cast out Adam; and placed before the paradise of pleasure Cherubims, and a flaming sword, turning every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.]

As Catholics, are we required to believe that literal angels had a fiery sword, literally doing this?
 
You’re not required to literally accept that, no. :o I think the imagery has great theological significance, though. The cherubim guarded the east gate of the Garden. And the east gate is also the entrance to the temple (cf. Ezek. 43:1-5, 1 Kings 6:22-35) inside which is the Ark flanked again by cherubim! (Ex 25:22) There are also a number of Church Fathers who recognize the eastern gate of Ezekiel 44:1-2 to be a direct prophecy of Mary since through that gate God passed. All three types: the Ark, Garden, and Mary are tied together—all are dwelling places of God (the Garden, Mary’s womb, and the Ark in the Temple), and all are places incompatible with sin: Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden when they sinned, and the high priest had to purify himself before entering the temple…and this is all a signpost that Mary is also a pure dwelling place incompatible with sin. :o

As to the sword that goes in all directions, I am not as studied on its theological significance, but you can check what the early Church taught on the passage at this web page. :o
 
MarcoPolo said:
As to the sword that goes in all directions, I am not as studied on its theological significance, but you can check what the early Church taught on the passage at this web page. :o
Click to expand...
Im just a simple laymen as well. However, in the first few chapters of Revelation, the flaming sword is depicted as a symbol of God’s Divine Power and Glory. Theres an entire chapter devoted to the Vision. Chapter 1, Verses 12-16. Explains it perfectly.
 
MarcoPolo said:
You’re not required to literally accept that, no.
Click to expand...
What ARE we required to believe? I don’t believe angels had a literal fiery sword; I don’t believe humans were created from a ball of mud, either, which was mentioned in my priest’s homily last night.
 
What are the possibilities? How about a force field of some type? A separation?
 
Faith1960 said:
What ARE we required to believe? I don’t believe angels had a literal fiery sword; I don’t believe humans were created from a ball of mud, either, which was mentioned in my priest’s homily last night.
Click to expand...
You should speak to your priest then. This includes anyone reading this. If you need answers, please get them from an authoritative source. Are we to believe that after Jesus fasted and was tempted by the devil that His angels did not minister to him?

I think Catholics need to realize that God, as God, is going to break the rules. Raise the dead? Give sight to the blind? Cleanse the lepers? Instantly? Ask yourself: Who do I pray to?

I don’t understand the anxiety. Where does it come from?

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
You should speak to your priest then. This includes anyone reading this. If you need answers, please get them from an authoritative source. Are we to believe that after Jesus fasted and was tempted by the devil that His angels did not minister to him?

I think Catholics need to realize that God, as God, is going to break the rules. Raise the dead? Give sight to the blind? Cleanse the lepers? Instantly? Ask yourself: Who do I pray to?

I don’t understand the anxiety. Where does it come from?
Click to expand...
There’s no anxiety about this.
 
edwest2 said:
You should speak to your priest then. This includes anyone reading this. If you need answers, please get them from an authoritative source. Are we to believe that after Jesus fasted and was tempted by the devil that His angels did not minister to him?

I think Catholics need to realize that God, as God, is going to break the rules. Raise the dead? Give sight to the blind? Cleanse the lepers? Instantly? Ask yourself: Who do I pray to?
Click to expand...
I believe in God, of course, and believe in Jesus Christ, in case you’re implying I don’t.
 
Faith1960 said:
I believe in God, of course, and believe in Jesus Christ, in case you’re implying I don’t.
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Sorry if you thought I was implying that. I’m just pointing out that sometimes, people in general (not you) don’t take God at His word.

What does the priest say on Ash Wednesday? “Remember man that thou art dust and unto dust thou shalt return.”

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Sorry if you thought I was implying that. I’m just pointing out that sometimes, people in general (not you) don’t take God at His word.

What does the priest say on Ash Wednesday? “Remember man that thou art dust and unto dust thou shalt return.”
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Actually, where I went they said “turn away from sin and stay faithful to the Gospel” or something like that. And I know they do say what you said and I really dont get that.
 
Faith1960 said:
What ARE we required to believe? I don’t believe angels had a literal fiery sword; I don’t believe humans were created from a ball of mud, either, which was mentioned in my priest’s homily last night.
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Catholics are required to believe that all of humanity descended from two, sole original human parents. We are required to believe the full Catholic teaching on Original Sin. This is the best source for information.

Basic Catholic teaching **regarding Adam & Eve, Human Nature, and Original Sin. **
is found in the
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, ISBN: 1-57455-109-4
Paragraphs 355-421.

The good news of Jesus Christ follows in Paragraph 422, etc.

One can put the word paragraph and its number in the Catechism’s search bar in link
www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Entering topics is also very useful since the Catechism does expand on the basics and implications. . Do check out the references in the margins and in the Index.

When one enters a paragraph number, like “paragraph 355”, and then clicks on the opening line, CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 355 the following is under the paragraph:

»
»Table of Contents
»

​
 
grannymh said:
Catholics are required to believe that all of humanity descended from two, sole original human parents. We are required to believe the full Catholic teaching on Original Sin. This is the best source for information.

Basic Catholic teaching **regarding Adam & Eve, Human Nature, and Original Sin. **
is found in the
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, ISBN: 1-57455-109-4
Paragraphs 355-421.

The good news of Jesus Christ follows in Paragraph 422, etc.

One can put the word paragraph and its number in the Catechism’s search bar in link
www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Entering topics is also very useful since the Catechism does expand on the basics and implications. . Do check out the references in the margins and in the Index.

When one enters a paragraph number, like “paragraph 355”, and then clicks on the opening line, CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 355 the following is under the paragraph:

»
»Table of Contents
»

​
Click to expand...
Does it say anything about the angels and the sword?
 
Faith1960 said:
Does it say anything about the angels and the sword?
Click to expand...
Not in the section which I referenced. What it does say about Adam’s deed is scary enough.

Check out paragraph 390 “How to read the account of the Fall”
# CCC Search Result - Paragraph390

The Catechism references Genesis 3:24 in its section on Angels. CCC 328-336.
# CCC Search Result - Paragraph332

Blessings,
granny

Our first parent Adam was the apple of God’s eye.
(example of reality and figurative language)
 
grannymh said:
Not in the section which I referenced. What it does say about Adam’s deed is scary enough.

Check out paragraph 390 “How to read the account of the Fall”
CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 390

The Catechism references Genesis 3:24 in its section on Angels. CCC 328-336.
CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 332

Blessings,
granny

Our first parent Adam was the apple of God’s eye.
(example of reality and figurative language)
Click to expand...
In the part about Angels, it says nothing about a literal sword.
 
Never mind. I’ve been reading up on angels and didn’t really understand what the CC teaches about them. I looked it up on This Rock and there’s a lot of great information there.
 
Faith1960 said:
There have already been plenty of posts talking about whether Genesis is to be taken literally or not but what about this:

Douay-Rheims Bible
[And he cast out Adam; and placed before the paradise of pleasure Cherubims, and a flaming sword, turning every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.]

As Catholics, are we required to believe that literal angels had a fiery sword, literally doing this?
Click to expand...
The language is almost sure to be figurative.I believe the Tree of Life may be Jesus, Himself, from whom we feed in order to have life. In any case, access is made available to the Tree again as per Rev 22, since it was banned at the fall of man. This would indicate the restoration/reconciliation of man with God due to Christ’s Atonement, the Holy Spirit once again operative directly within us so we can be free of sin and grow in knowledge and love of God and gain eternal life. And the Eucharist is our Sacrament of this same communion.
 
Faith1960 said:
Does it say anything about the angels and the sword?
Click to expand...
I noticed that too. Looks to me that the “how it was done” has not been definitely defined. So there are probably lots of opinions. I did see your post referring to This Rock. It is a good source*.*

Blessings,
granny

THE HOLY EUCHARIST

IS THE LIGHT, STRENGTH, AND LIFE OF OUR SOULS.
 
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