Another Head Covering Question

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As a hopeful convert in the hopefully near future, I do plan to wear a veil. I’ve heard that black is the traditional color for married women, so I’ll most likely pick up that one.

I like the symbolism of the veil. It’s a way to show humble obediance to the Lord. True, it’s not for everybody, but for me, it’d be a way to completely give up myself to our Saviour.

Uh … does anybody know how much they cost? Some I’ve seen are kinda expensive.
 
Uh … does anybody know how much they cost? Some I’ve seen are kinda expensive.
The cheapest I know of is from the EWTN store… last I checked it was around $6. They are decent quality.

I got one on sale from Halo Works that’s even better quality and beautiful (I think it was around $20).
 
I don’t want to start a huge debate here, I know that head covering is not required, but isn’t discouraged either. I like the idea of covering my head, but I belong to a very liberal parish (not heretically so, just in the way of nobody receives the Eucharist in the mouth, wears head coverings and we have a rock band instead of a choir) and I don’t want to give off a ‘holier than thou’ vibe. Thoughts?
I don’t wear a head covering for reasons of my own but: unless you do have a "holier than thou’ attitude, chances are very few will think one way or another.

With the exception of a few busybodies, most people simply don’t care what you wear unless you want to make an issue out of it yourself.

You should do what is in your heart to do.
 
Uh … does anybody know how much they cost? Some I’ve seen are kinda expensive.
They vary in price but I’ve seen them start at $10 at sacramentals dot org website. I bought a nice scalloped shaped one in black and they provided a newsletter article about headcovering with my purchase. They were fast with shipping.
 
Paul said.“But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved.
For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil.”

Although in ancient times the customs of female dress varied, women of all cultures allowed their hair to grow long. Nowhere was short hair the custom for women. Short hair on a woman was a sign of grief or disgrace. The humiliation of cutting off one’s hair can be easily documented in the Old Testament Scriptures. When the ancients wished to shame an individual, they would remove some or all of his beard and/or hair (2 Samuel 10:4-5; Isaiah 7:20; 15:2; 50:6).
For if the woman be not covered, let her be shorn." Paul claims, if some women in Corinth were brazen enough to refuse to wear a head covering, let them play out their rebellion and shame to the full. Let them not only pray or prophesy with an uncovered head, let them also cut off all their hair, as a token of defeat and shame. If, on the other hand, a woman recognized that shaving the head was a disgrace, let her also recognize that having an uncovered head was shameful, and so let her cover her head."

Paul refers to the Oral Law of the Jews. He “does not here speak in his own sense but cites something usual among the Jews.” It admits of proof that such was the Oral Law. A woman “sinner” is described in the Talmud as “she who transgresseth the law of Moses and the Jewish law.” The gloss explains: “’The Jewish law, that is, what the daughters of Israel follow though it be not written” (i.e. the oral Law). The question was asked: "How does she transgress the Jewish law? Answer: “If she appear abroad with her head uncovered if she spin in the streets,” etc., etc., through a long list. For the offenses here enumerated, one of which is uncovering the head, it is prescribed that the wife should be divorced “with the loss of her marriage portion.” (Kethuboth, fol. 7, col. 1). Furthermore, in that section of the Talmud called “Sotah,” which treats of unchaste women, under the sub-head, Of the duty of Repudiation of a Wife for adultery, we learn that this DUTY rested upon a Jew whose wife was seen abroad with her hair "not done up,” i.e., not covered. Thus we learn that a Jew, even if favorably disposed towards his wife’s profession of Christianity, and toward the practice of unveiling in worship, might be compelled by his relatives or the synagogue authorities, much to his regret, to divorce his wife, if she unveiled. The rest of the story, as to what would be done with the woman who unveiled, and thus furnished sufficient proof of “adultery” to compel her husband to repudiate her, we learn from Dr. Edersheim’s Sketches of Jewish Social Life, p. 155: “It was the custom in case of a woman accused of adultery to have her hair shorn or shaven,” at the same time using this formula: “Because thou hast departed from the manner of the daughters of Israel, who go with their heads covered . . . therefore that hath befallen thee which thou hast chosen.” An unveiled Jewish wife might, then, be tried for adultery; and when so tried, be “shorn or shaven.”

But Paul actually is not really the issue here. The issue is veiling not because of law or rules. It is a veiling which begins with the heart. Many of us who cover at mass and prayer (and other times)
do so because we fell God has laid it on our hearts to do so. For submission, for focus, for humility, for obedience and other spiritual growth reasons known only to God. We do it because He asked us.

Other people here are discussing canon law about whether the Catholic Church still REQUIRES a head covering or not.
I am veiled in my heart; therefore I don’t need to be veiled on my head. Guess God knows that, because I don’t feel the need to veil my head (although it would be nice on bad-hair days).

Did the Old Testament/Jewish law have any punishments for men who committed adultery? Were their beards shorn? Or something equivalent to shorn tresses? Of course, the parts quoted above seem very much to point out that veiling was a custom of a particular culture at a particular point in time. It was done for social reasons more than anything, like in most middle eastern cultures today. Our culture dresses differently and has different customs.

Customs are not laws. Catholicsm does not recognize adultery as automatic grounds for annulment, for example, as I have discovered. Such a marriage is still considered valid, unlike under Jewish law. Hmmmm…maybe that ought be reviewed then?
 
I am veiled in my heart; therefore I don’t need to be veiled on my head. Guess God knows that, because I don’t feel the need to veil my head (although it would be nice on bad-hair days).

Did the Old Testament/Jewish law have any punishments for men who committed adultery? Were their beards shorn? Or something equivalent to shorn tresses? Of course, the parts quoted above seem very much to point out that veiling was a custom of a particular culture at a particular point in time. It was done for social reasons more than anything, like in most middle eastern cultures today. Our culture dresses differently and has different customs.

Customs are not laws. Catholicsm does not recognize adultery as automatic grounds for annulment, for example, as I have discovered. Such a marriage is still considered valid, unlike under Jewish law. Hmmmm…maybe that ought be reviewed then?
Ailina,
I have noticed that anytime a poster cites the reasoning behind it you seem to use sarcasm in your responses to it by saying something like “I am veiled in my heart; therefore I don’t need to be veiled on my head” “So in not doing it, most of us not covering our heads are wrong. So really, we SHOULD be covering our heads whether we feel a calling to it or not, because we are not pleasing to God if we don’t. I’ll be sure to start telling all the women in my parish,” “hopelessly shorn short hair that is already so disgraceful that head coverings are no use any longer, and God can’t help but look away because short hair is well, so disgraceful.” “Seems to me that Jesus often reprimanded the pharisees for being too rule-bound and not actually pious and prayerful.”

It is as if you seem to feel you are being personally attacked by what we do. I assure you the majority of women who veil do not do it to make other women uncomfortable who do not.

I stated I believe that our reasoning for veiling has very little to do with the custom of Paul’s time and everything to do with a resonse from our hearts.

If you do not agree with it, so be it. If you are so set against veiling why even discuss it with us? I perceive you do not want to be convinced. Right?:confused:
 
Ailina,
I should have added and did not that if I am mistaken about your “sarcasm” then please excuse my misperception. I do not mean to offend.
 
Ailina,
I should have added and did not that if I am mistaken about your “sarcasm” then please excuse my misperception. I do not mean to offend.
I am not being sarcastic. However, I really shouldn’t say anything more about head covering. I honestly don’t really care one way or another, because I’m pretty sure God doesn’ either, so long as we obey his laws and love him with all our hearts. Veiling isn’t required because it isn’t a law, but if you want to, go ahead. (Oops, that does sound rather punny, doesn’t it?)
 
Hello,

I’m Kate and don’t post often but I just came across the head covering question this week quite by accident. I grew up going to Holy Mass with a doily type head covering or a bonnet until I was 5 or 6 and I honestly don’t know what happened after that as to why we stopped. I was too young. But Holy Mass was AWESOME.

Recently my husband and I moved to the south and joined a church where several women cover their head. I hadn’t seen headcoverings in 45 years. I wondered about this and then I came across this directive from our lady this week:

WOMEN MUST WEAR

“My child, tell all to act as good example in My Son’s House. Women must wear a head covering in the holy places and in prayer. It is not because of custom; it is because the angels demand proper deportment during the Holy Sacrifice.” - Our Lady, May 29, 1976

I found this request on www.tldm.org click on Directives from Heaven. It is #178 I found a great deal of useful information in that category and I will never again enter a church without some sort of head covering. For who can take the slightest chance of offending the most beautiful, most blessed, most Holy Mother, Mary whom I hope to welcome me to Heaven one day.

I agree with the people who say that if your head is covered, you are less likely to be wearing shorts, chew gum during Holy Mass, wear clothing offensive to God in His Holy Church, or yes, clip your fingernails during the Homily which I have seen many, many times…sigh…

God Bless you all.
Kate
 
Hi Dixieagle,
Forgive me if you already talked about this. I just pop into this thread every now and then.
On your blog you state-
…“the head covering thing leaves me utterly baffled. I think that it is pretty clear that St. Paul was speaking to the people of his time and place, in a manner consistent with the prevailing customs.”

May I ask you something? How are angels a “custom”? St. Paul says we should cover because of the angels. Do you think that there are no angels anymore?

…"To believe that the heads of the majority of Catholics in the pews should be covered, lest they offend God (or the angels, as some say) strikes me as quaint, to say the least. "

Are you saying St. Paul is “quaint”? Because St. Paul said we should cover because of the angels.

Why would a Catholic woman want to diminish what an apostle has requested?
The apostle never said we HAD to cover but he recommends it. Does this have no effect on you?

I’m just curious. Because I understand that the Church says its not required, but I just don’t understand why a Catholic would diminish the recommendation of St. Paul regarding the angels present at the Mass.

Would you mind explaining further. Thanks
 
I am not being sarcastic. However, I really shouldn’t say anything more about head covering. I honestly don’t really care one way or another, because I’m pretty sure God doesn’ either, so long as we obey his laws and love him with all our hearts. Veiling isn’t required because it isn’t a law, but if you want to, go ahead. (Oops, that does sound rather punny, doesn’t it?)
I’m sorry, I just can’t help but ask you - who knows the will of God better? You or the apostle St Paul?🙂
 
I am just happy we have not been locked yet.🙂
I love a good discussion.
I know i am quite shocked it hasn’t. Guess we have all learned to behavior like adults:D

To the OP: There aren’t any rules to the coloring of the headcovering. I am single and i wear the black or dark brown ones because they go with my hair better and normally match my clothing better so that i blend in. I choose to wear a veil because i just never grew up with hats and have no idea how to wear one and the veil is just easier to carry in my purse. Though one of the ladies at church said she would help me find a hat so that i could learn to be comfortable in wearing one.

At my church there are a good number of ladies for those in the 20’s to those in the 70’s who wear a headcovering of sometype. And people are so use to them that no one even bats an eye about a women with a veil or hat. Also within my young adult group there are lots of girls who wear a veil.

I will tell you the fact that the memebers of this parish were so welcoming/not-shunning about women who wear headcoverings that it was one of the reason i switched churches. (There are plenty of reasons but that is for a different thread) I love that fact that no one thinks its “i am a holy then thou” definance but an outward sign of an inner sturggle/understand. Many years ago i felt the urge to wear a veil after feeling that God want me to learn about submitting. Wear a veil has been part of that process for me. I love the veil because it keeps me focused at mass and since i only wear it a mass it reminds me that i am always in the precense of my Lord and that i need to behavior apporatiely and keep my thoughts on him.

I wish you luck!
 
are you f.u.c.king serious. religion is a joke you need to learn that you can do what you want in this life and make it your own. you only have 80 odd years to do anything. ALL RELIGION IS A JOKE ITS ALL FAKE MAKE BELIEVE IT IS ONLY GOOD WHEN YOU ARE UGLY OR SOMETHING AND NEED SOMETHING TO MAKE U BELIEVE YOU DONT NEED SEX OR SOMEONE ELSES LOVE!

I HATE ALL GODS! I HATE SATAN! **** I JUST HATE MAKE BELIEVE STUFF.
 
First I want to say your daughter is adorable even with the veil. 👍
Next I do want to clarify that I do not find it odd at all that you want to wear a veil I actually understand why you want to. However, I do not understand how you can think that anyone who chooses not to wear a veil is going against scripture. The scripture I have seen quoted in these posts was put together by the Church and it is the Church that has deemed it is not required any more so what is the point of going around in circles over it. I also do not understand how you can say you find it odd that some one would feel called to go against those words and then say you wouldn’t judge someone else’s calling. Just the fact that you do find it odd and then condemn it by saying it goes against God’s words is judging some one else’s calling.

P.S. What does “sexy” have to do with any of this.
I think it is strange that people think this became optional all of a sudden after more than 3000 years of custom. What is so special about the 1960’s? The church removed the law on the books. Does that mean the 3000 year old custom is just chucked out the door as some old way of thinking? Heaven is filled with saints who proclaimed that this custom should be observed.

The reaction from women who do not wear veils towards those that do always seems to be negative. It is much more likely that the “non-veilers” see those that veil as being submissive to their husbands and to God. This is not in line with the 1960’s women’s lib thinking. 1960’s says that women should not show any type of outward sign of submission towards ANYONE. The non-veilers feel threatened someone by those women who are comfortable being submissive to their husbands and/or their God.

This may not be a popular comment, but I have seen the reaction too many times to think this is not the main motivation. Having short hair for the purpose of avoiding a custom that has existed for more than 3000 years is a cop out. Maybe the fact that non-veiler’s NOTICE those that veil means that somewhere deep inside them they recognize and admire the humility being shown. but feel that they will somehow loose some type of illusionary power if they also wear a veil.

But, what do I know.
 
are you f.u.c.king serious. religion is a joke you need to learn that you can do what you want in this life and make it your own. you only have 80 odd years to do anything. ALL RELIGION IS A JOKE ITS ALL FAKE MAKE BELIEVE IT IS ONLY GOOD WHEN YOU ARE UGLY OR SOMETHING AND NEED SOMETHING TO MAKE U BELIEVE YOU DONT NEED SEX OR SOMEONE ELSES LOVE!

I HATE ALL GODS! I HATE SATAN! **** I JUST HATE MAKE BELIEVE STUFF.
Personal attacks are not welcome. Please take your anger and express it to the mirror. The purpose of this forum and this site is to discuss the Catholic faith. If you are happy in your beliefs, then please leave the rest of us alone to practice our faith.

Peace be with you.
 
I’m sorry, I just can’t help but ask you - who knows the will of God better? You or the apostle St Paul?🙂
Seems like you are being a little judgemental to the one who isn’t veiling? I don’t veil, because I just learned about it and am trying to discern if it is right for me…but mainly, because I don’t like the way people that veil treat people that don’t. When I am around women that veil, they seem to think that they are “holier” than me cause they wear a veil. They treat me like I don’t respect my husband because I don’t wear a veil. I hope I am wrong on that, and I know all the people that veil are going to be on me…but that is what I see. That statement above confirms it.
 
Oh…and the “Our Lady of the Roses” quote that was given earlier stating that Mary SAID “Women MUST cover their heads.” I researched that and while you may agree with what was said…Our Lady of the Roses is NOT an APPROVED MARIAN APPARTITION! I do not listen to anything from a “seer” (Veronica Lueken) that hasn’t been approved from the church.

Approved apparitions are listed here…en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_apparitions. And as quoted from Wikipedia "And reported messages from Veronica Lueken as Our Lady of Bayside were declared invalid by Bishop Francis Mugavero, then Bishop of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn.[84] "

Don’t just believe anything that has “Our Lady” written after it!
 
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