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Redbandito
Guest
Same difference. JP2 and B16 have done the same thing. In attempting to do the same, you either intentionally or unintentionally follow their lead.
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Redbandito
Guest
Martin, who appointed you as judge of who qualifies? I seem to remember a verse that states, "I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. HE will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God" (1 Cor 4:3-5). **In other words, Paul doesn’t even judge HIMSELF, much less others. That is God’s right ALONE. You seem intent on doing that with others though. So another verse to remember is, “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you” (Mt 7:1-2). Based on the fact that you seem so ready to condemn everyone to Hell that does not share your understanding of salvation, I would be a little anxious about how God will measure His judgment on you.
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Carrie_Andrews
Guest
In your “humble opinion”? Have you read his books, have you seen his actions, have you heard of his miracles? Be careful whom you thow stones at, you don’t want to offend God by being offensive to his Saints.( even if you, personally aren’t aware they are Saints!)
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Carrie_Andrews
Guest
If you read the Catholic Catechism you will see we are told to have a personal relationship with Jesus, I do and pray all my fellow Christians do and that many more will see the truth, who is Jesus Christ. We are also in the Bible and the Catholic Cathechism told to follow the example of the Saints! If I had a drop of the amount of holiness of either of these GREAT men, I’d be one darned happy Catholic!!!
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Dan_Sheffield
Guest
Someone earlier denigrated Vatican II’s authoritative teaching on Ecumenism. Here are some passages… right from the ‘horse’s mouth’ so to speak:
Vatican II - “Decree on Ecumenism” (Unitatis Redintegratio):
Is that enough for those who would reject Vatican II’s teaching on Ecumenism as being “un-Catholic”? Translated, theat means “Those statements from Vatican II are as Catholic as it gets!”. Translated further… that means, “enough said”.
Vatican II - “Decree on Ecumenism” (Unitatis Redintegratio):
- “… For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the all-embracing means of salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. …”
- “… The result will be that, little by little, as the obstacles to perfect ecclesiastical communion are overcome, all Christians will be gathered, in a common celebration of the Eucharist, into that unity of the one and only Church which Christ bestowed on His Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, dwells in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time. …”
- “… It is, of course essential that doctrine be clearly presented in its entirety. Nothing is so foreign to the spirit of ecumenism as a false conciliatory approach which harms the purity of Catholic doctrine and obscures its assured genuine meaning. …”
- “… Their ecumenical activity must not be other than fully and sincerely Catholic, that is, loyal to the truth we have received from the apostles and the Fathers, and in harmony with the faith which the Catholic Church has always professed, …”
Is that enough for those who would reject Vatican II’s teaching on Ecumenism as being “un-Catholic”? Translated, theat means “Those statements from Vatican II are as Catholic as it gets!”. Translated further… that means, “enough said”.
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Jeanette_L
Guest
It seems to me I remember that *our *Holy Bible says somewhere “Judge not lest you be judged”.
Why is it that our brothers in Christ, who know the Bible oh so well, always forget about this little power packed morsel?
It seems they would rather presume the worst than assume the best, in keeping with a Christ like spirit, huh?
Lord have mercy on us all.
Why is it that our brothers in Christ, who know the Bible oh so well, always forget about this little power packed morsel?
It seems they would rather presume the worst than assume the best, in keeping with a Christ like spirit, huh?Lord have mercy on us all.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Jeanette-It seems to me I remember that *our *Holy Bible says somewhere “Judge not lest you be judged”.
Why is it that our brothers in Christ, who know the Bible oh so well, always forget about this little power packed morsel?
Lord have mercy on us all.
I understand where you’re coming from. However, Paul does say, “Are we not to judge the church?”
Therefore, as Catholics, I think it is okay to look at the doctrinal issues, the moral issues, etc. and say, “this is right, this is wrong”.
And sometimes we’re going to judge that “this person is wrong”.
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Jeanette_L
Guest
And yet we have so many people here jumping to judgement about the intent of our Pope’s actions without having been explained by him. They are presuming to know on the basis of a few reports from the secular and Muslim media.
We are in no position now, and maybe never if it is not explained further, to understand what was in his heart and mind at that moment.I think it’s safe to assume on the other hand, by what we know so far of Pope Benedict XIV’s teachings of our faith in Christ to date, and his personality and mannerisms, that there is more to this than what the sensationalists would have us to believe. So if we are going to make judgements concerning conduct, we need to be sure we have all the information before doing so. We can never presume to make a judgement as to the heart of a person before God.
That’s all I’m sayin’, ya know?
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Catherine_S
Guest
Well than, start** dieing to yourself** and Christ will help you with the transformation process.
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tequilamac
Guest
Well good luck. We know what Christ thought of those who wanted to sit at the head of the table. Forgive us if we do not rush to join you.It’s just we as Catholics have to follow our Bible and His words of contempt for those who would be first send chills down our spines. But that is because we take His words literally.
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Ghosty
Guest
As a matter of fact, yes. The 1983 Code of Canon Law abrogated the 1917 Code of Canon Law, and the 1983 Code of Canon Law provides even for the sharing of Sacraments with Apostolic Churches such as the Eastern Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox, and the Church of the East.
This was a matter especially raised by the Eastern Catholic Churches at Vatican II, most notably the Melkite Patriarch and his synod of bishops.
Peace and God bless!
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Stephen_C
Guest
A few questions
- Is there a place that Christian’s are not allowed to Pray to Jesus?
- Do you really think B16 was praying to Mohammed?
What I see in this thread is the classic anti-Catholic feeding frenzy. Nothing more. Kind of like the Political spin doctors. Well you can spin whatever you want. I really don’t care. When MFM stated that picture of JP2 was one for his scrap book, well I was reminded by all those photo galleries at those anti-Catholic websites. Real pictures with false captions and foot notes (that spin doctor thing). That picture is what it is. How you choose to define it is what your are. So you just keep that scrap book MFM. Don’t forget to show it to St. Peter. I know why B16 went to Turkey. And I know he has done good for the Christians in Turkey. And maybe we are 1 step closer to Catholic and Orthodox unity. That is what I pray for.
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patrick457
Guest
If I could post a reply I made on another thread here:
(On a side note, though, If this happened in Istanbul, then He is also facing the Holy Land in that direction)
If that is so, If I face East while praying, and there is a Shopping Center in that direction, Am I pray to the Shopping Center?
and:
After all, does the Pope automatically pray to Allah when he faces the South-East? Are there not also other Cities and towns in that direction besides Mecca?I guess the Pope’s just following the proverb ‘When in Rome, do as the Romans do’. Though he faced the same direction as the people, that does not necessarily mean he is facing Mecca or worshipping Allah. Correlation does not prove Causation. On a side note, though, If he DID face the other side, does that mean he’s praying to the Doors of the Mosque?
(On a side note, though, If this happened in Istanbul, then He is also facing the Holy Land in that direction)
If that is so, If I face East while praying, and there is a Shopping Center in that direction, Am I pray to the Shopping Center?
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tequilamac
Guest
Apparently. Just as I said earlier my Church directly faces Reno Nevada. I guess I am praying to the God of the mafia founded slot machine.
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patrick457
Guest
I agree with you.
Many people put interpretations on the actions of the Pope, sometimes even venturing into bizarre conspiracy theories.
Every movement of his will be interpreted in some way.
The Pope’s Cross must be really heavy. He’s the Vicarius Christi, after all.
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patrick457
Guest
Unlucky the man whose Church faces Las Vegas and its casinos.Apparently. Just as I said earlier my Church directly faces Reno Nevada. I guess I am praying to the God of the mafia founded slot machine.
But hey, there’s a railroad East of my house.
I guess I should go and pray to the God of Trains and railways.
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tequilamac
Guest
Hmmm. Praying in the direction of Reno has certainly not fattened my pocketbook.Unlucky the man whose Church faces Las Vegas and its casinos.
But hey, there’s a railroad East of my house.
I guess I should go and pray to the God of Trains and railways.
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oldfogey
Guest
It’s easy for some to feel all fuzzy good about this, but think of this…
If a Christian in an Arab country is told to turn to Mecca and pray and he refuses, what does he say when he is told the Pope did it? Or that a previous Pope kissed the Koran?
Sorry, this is not a matter of doctrine, and I think the last two Popes have have placed more of a burden on Christians in Arab countries by their actions.
If a Christian in an Arab country is told to turn to Mecca and pray and he refuses, what does he say when he is told the Pope did it? Or that a previous Pope kissed the Koran?
Sorry, this is not a matter of doctrine, and I think the last two Popes have have placed more of a burden on Christians in Arab countries by their actions.
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valient_Lucy
Guest
If a Muslim told me to turn to Mecca and pray, I would do it. And I would pray, “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner, and have mercy on all Muslims.”
However, if a Muslim asked me to proclaim, “There is no God but Allah and Muhammed is His Prophet,” that would be different. Then I would certainly refuse.
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oldfogey
Guest
How about if they told your family, wife, children, parents to do it? In your home, in the night or whenever they picked. And you and your family were alone and they were armed?
How would you feel then? Nice and ecumenical?
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