Another Lent thread (specific 'problem')

[SecretaryMonday]

I have read threads about how ‘give up [thing] for Lent’ is an optional practise and, while good, isn’t binding. I’ve read about Lenten traditions and the degree to which people ‘stuck to it’ (i.e., getting rid of pastry supplies on Fat Tuesday because they couldn’t have fatty sweet stuff in the house from Ash Wednesday on). I’ve read the opinions that Sundays and other Solemnities are, or aren’t a day of fast.

The problem is that during Confession, my priest asked what I was doing for Lent, and when I told him, he said “for your penance, just keep doing what you’re doing for Lent”.

So now my Lenten discipline is no longer an optional practise. I have been treating Sundays like weekdays ‘just in case’, my reasoning being that, as long as the priest and altar are wearing purple and the ‘gloria’ is omitted, the Lenten fast/abstinence is in effect.

I did feast on the Solemnity of St. Joseph because the priest wore white and we sang the ‘gloria’.

So what do I do Palm Sunday and the rest of Holy Week (besides Holy Thursday to Easter Vigil)? We didn’t sing the ‘gloria’, but the priest and altar wore red today instead of purple?

 

[corsair]

Sounds like you go to an Ordinary Form of the Mass. Yes, for the Solemnity of St.Joseph, the Gloria was sung and the vestments were white or gold. In the Extraordinary Form, today is violet/purple.

Its been so long since I’ve been to an OF Mass that I can’t remember anymore what color they use.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

It’s still Lent. If your penance was to keep doing what you’ve been doing, then keep doing what you’ve been doing. Why try to complicate things?

 

[malphono]

In the Extraordinary Form, today is violet/purple.

Yes, except that, the Blessing of the Branches in the Usus Antiquior (according to the so-called “revision” of 1955, which was incorporated in the Missal of 1962), calls for a red cope and stole. After the procession, the red cope is removed and the violet vestments donned for the Mass itself.

 

[SecretaryMonday]

Yes, except that, the Blessing of the Branches in the Usus Antiquior (according to the so-called “revision” of 1955, which was incorporated in the Missal of 1962), calls for a red cope and stole. After the procession, the red cope is removed and the violet vestments donned for the Mass itself.

Yes, I attend the EF on Sundays, and the vestments went from red to violet (OF on weekdays, which is why I saw the priest wear white on the feast of St. Joseph).

It’s still Lent. If your penance was to keep doing what you’ve been doing, then keep doing what you’ve been doing. Why try to complicate things?

Okay.

 

[Kathrin]

If you are really concerned or confused about it, maybe you can try to talk to that priest again and tell him of your difficulty?

 

[CB_Catholic]

I have read threads about how ‘give up [thing] for Lent’ is an optional practise and, while good, isn’t binding. I’ve read about Lenten traditions and the degree to which people ‘stuck to it’ (i.e., getting rid of pastry supplies on Fat Tuesday because they couldn’t have fatty sweet stuff in the house from Ash Wednesday on). I’ve read the opinions that Sundays and other Solemnities are, or aren’t a day of fast.

The problem is that during Confession, my priest asked what I was doing for Lent, and when I told him, he said “for your penance, just keep doing what you’re doing for Lent”.

So now my Lenten discipline is no longer an optional practise. I have been treating Sundays like weekdays ‘just in case’, my reasoning being that, as long as the priest and altar are wearing purple and the ‘gloria’ is omitted, the Lenten fast/abstinence is in effect.

I did feast on the Solemnity of St. Joseph because the priest wore white and we sang the ‘gloria’.

So what do I do Palm Sunday and the rest of Holy Week (besides Holy Thursday to Easter Vigil)? We didn’t sing the ‘gloria’, but the priest and altar wore red today instead of purple?

Even back in the days of the EF, we were told that we did not fast/abstain on Sundays, as Sundays were feast days. Of course it is up to you when to fast, but your “reasoning” is not in alignment with the Church. Traditional Church teaching (and you can find this in many places online) is that Sunday is ALWAYS a feast day, we NEVER fast on a feast day, and what color people are wearing and the omission of the Gloria has no effect on this or on the fast/abstinence rules. You can’t just make things up as you go along, your reasoning has to be in line with Church teaching. And it is not. Just continue your usual lenten practice and forget about the color of the vestments or the Gloria, because they have nothing to do with the fasting/abstinence rules.

 

[SecretaryMonday]

Even back in the days of the EF, we were told that we did not fast/abstain on Sundays, as Sundays were feast days. Of course it is up to you when to fast, but your “reasoning” is not in alignment with the Church. Traditional Church teaching (and you can find this in many places online) is that Sunday is ALWAYS a feast day, we NEVER fast on a feast day, and what color people are wearing and the omission of the Gloria has no effect on this or on the fast/abstinence rules. You can’t just make things up as you go along, your reasoning has to be in line with Church teaching. And it is not. Just continue your usual lenten practice and forget about the color of the vestments or the Gloria, because they have nothing to do with the fasting/abstinence rules.

I didn’t make that part up myself, someone else made it up for me.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I didn’t make that part up myself, someone else made it up for me.

Somebody told you that??

Secretary Monday, the CCC is a great guide to these things, even if it takes time. Now people will argue whether people can fast on Sundays during Lent–that usually is a personal decision, but whether Sunday is always a feast day is not up for negotiation–it always is. In earlier centuries, it actually was anathema to fast on a Sunday. That is not the case now, but
the general teaching is that we don’t fast on feast days.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Somebody told you that??

Secretary Monday, the CCC is a great guide to these things, even if it takes time. Now people will argue whether people can fast on Sundays during Lent–that usually is a personal decision, but whether Sunday is always a feast day is not up for negotiation–it always is. In earlier centuries, it actually was anathema to fast on a Sunday. That is not the case now, but
the general teaching is that we don’t fast on feast days.

So, where exactly does this answer from CAF fit in???

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=754359&highlight=Lent

*What is the official Church teaching on maintaining one’s voluntary penance on Sunday’s?

It’s up to you. You make your own rules on voluntary penances. If you want to give yourself a break on Sunday, you may do so. If you want to maintain your penances for all of Lent, then do so. The Sundays of Lent are a part of Lent and the voluntary penances that you choose for yourself are a matter of your free choice.

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.*

 

[SecretaryMonday]

Somebody told you that??

Secretary Monday, the CCC is a great guide to these things, even if it takes time. Now people will argue whether people can fast on Sundays during Lent–that usually is a personal decision, but whether Sunday is always a feast day is not up for negotiation–it always is. In earlier centuries, it actually was anathema to fast on a Sunday. That is not the case now, but
the general teaching is that we don’t fast on feast days.

I looked and looked and looked and looked and…etc. in the CCC and could not find a thing about fasting on Sundays. What paragraph am I missing?

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Even back in the days of the EF, we were told that we did not fast/abstain on Sundays, as Sundays were feast days. Of course it is up to you when to fast, but your “reasoning” is not in alignment with the Church. Traditional Church teaching (and you can find this in many places online) is that Sunday is ALWAYS a feast day, we NEVER fast on a feast day, and what color people are wearing and the omission of the Gloria has no effect on this or on the fast/abstinence rules. You can’t just make things up as you go along, your reasoning has to be in line with Church teaching. And it is not. Just continue your usual lenten practice and forget about the color of the vestments or the Gloria, because they have nothing to do with the fasting/abstinence rules.

Clearly they are not making it up as given by the answer from a Catholic apologist.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I have read threads about how ‘give up [thing] for Lent’ is an optional practise and, while good, isn’t binding. I’ve read about Lenten traditions and the degree to which people ‘stuck to it’ (i.e., getting rid of pastry supplies on Fat Tuesday because they couldn’t have fatty sweet stuff in the house from Ash Wednesday on). I’ve read the opinions that Sundays and other Solemnities are, or aren’t a day of fast.

The problem is that during Confession, my priest asked what I was doing for Lent, and when I told him, he said “for your penance, just keep doing what you’re doing for Lent”.

So now my Lenten discipline is no longer an optional practise. I have been treating Sundays like weekdays ‘just in case’, my reasoning being that, as long as the priest and altar are wearing purple and the ‘gloria’ is omitted, the Lenten fast/abstinence is in effect.

I did feast on the Solemnity of St. Joseph because the priest wore white and we sang the ‘gloria’.

So what do I do Palm Sunday and the rest of Holy Week (besides Holy Thursday to Easter Vigil)? We didn’t sing the ‘gloria’, but the priest and altar wore red today instead of purple?

I think you misunderstood the priest. He probably was telling you to keep on with what you are doing for Lent, not binding you to anything. If it was optional before, then keep on doing what you’ve been doing, and keep it optional. He wasn’t telling you it is no longer optional, he was telling you just to keep doing what you have been doing. Perhaps you have complicated matters a bit more than need be?

I know you are a revert–I read your posts, but Catholicism isn’t that complicated. But we have had 2000 years to explore things about the faith and 2000 years of writings and opinions, and 2000 years of history, and 2000 years of theology, and 2000 years of Biblical study, so that adds up to a pretty big book. Plus, things vary widely locally.

But sometimes we tend to get"stuck" on details, etc, and that can cause a lot of unnecessary anxiety and lead to scrupulosity, which is something to avoid at all costs as Satan loves to use it as a handy little tool . Just do the best you can, and if you mess up, God knows our hearts.

 

[CB_Catholic]

So, where exactly does this answer from CAF fit in???

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=754359&highlight=Lent

*What is the official Church teaching on maintaining one’s voluntary penance on Sunday’s?

It’s up to you. You make your own rules on voluntary penances. If you want to give yourself a break on Sunday, you may do so. If you want to maintain your penances for all of Lent, then do so. The Sundays of Lent are a part of Lent and the voluntary penances that you choose for yourself are a matter of your free choice.

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.*

Annabelle Marie, I think you missed my statement to him that it was a personal decision whether he fasted on the Sundays on Lent. It is there, reread it. I was giving him a bit of traditional history–at one time it was actually anathema to fast on feast days, which include Sundays.

 

[SecretaryMonday]

Clearly they are not making it up as given by the answer from a Catholic apologist.

I think that Fr. Vincent Serpa was addressing penances other than fasting (like giving up chocolate or beer), and CB Catholic is talking more specifically about fasting on a feast day.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Annabelle Marie, I think you missed my statement to him that it was a personal decision whether he fasted on the Sundays on Lent. It is there, reread it. I was giving him a bit of traditional history–at one time it was actually anathema to fast on feast days, which include Sundays.

I apologize if I misread you…I was thrown off by your statement that “you can’t just make things up as you go along”.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I think that Fr. Vincent Serpa was addressing penances other than fasting (like giving up chocolate or beer), and CB Catholic is talking more specifically about fasting on a feast day.

Giving up something is a fast in and of itself.

You might find this interesting that I found online…

“Since one may choose whatever acts of prayer, fasting and almsgiving one wishes to offer as a sacrifice, then I suppose one is free to determine how that will take shape. We are called to pay special attention to penance during this holy season, but the Church – apart from a few minimal requirements of fasting and abstinence – does not strictly outline what is to be done and how they are to be observed. Likewise if one wishes to relax his penance for Sundays, he is free to do so. Others may choose to observe the same sacrifice for the whole of Lent, Sundays included. I posed the question, “do Sundays count?” to several parishioners and was moved by the response of one man who re-discovered the Catholic faith of his baptism when he was already married with children in his late twenties. He said that, given the potential for growth in holiness, he couldn’t see why he would want to “take Sundays off.” I tend to agree with him and generally follow suit – the two exceptions being when the Solemnities of St. Joseph and the Annunciation fall during the season of Lent. These feasts are exceptional in that the Gloria is called to be sung during the Mass (though the Alleluia is still omitted) and the Te Deum is to be sung in the Divine Office. Based on those liturgical cues, it seems reasonable that one may find reason to relax his penance as a short break”

 

[CB_Catholic]

Clearly they are not making it up as given by the answer from a Catholic apologist.

I wish you would read things in context and carefully. What the poster was making up–and he admitted someone made it up for him-was that he could just treat Sundays as ordinary Lenten days because of the colors of the vestments and the omission of the Gloria. He was not treating Sunday as a FEAST day. Sundays are ALWAYS FEAST days. There is no conflict with the apologist. Father Serpa would never say Sundays are not feast days. The OP was making his own rules about Sundays that were not in line with the Church.

 

[SecretaryMonday]

Sundays are ALWAYS FEAST days.

Do you know of an official source where I can find this? As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I have tried and failed.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I wish you would read things in context and carefully. What the poster was making up–and he admitted someone made it up for him-was that he could just treat Sundays as ordinary Lenten days because of the colors of the vestments and the omission of the Gloria. He was not treating Sunday as a FEAST day. Sundays are ALWAYS FEAST days. There is no conflict with the apologist. Father Serpa would never say Sundays are not feast days. The OP was making his own rules about Sundays that were not in line with the Church.

I re-read it three times so please do not disparage me in my reading. Maybe I didn’t understand it correctly…or maybe you weren’t as clear as you thought…

and maybe you missed the post where I already apologized…