Another Liturgical Abuse Video- B. Brown's Diocese of Orange

  • Thread starter Thread starter Angels_Watchin
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Julianna said:
yes it does make you wonder if the Patriot Act has mixed with the Church. Filming is great…but it is the witch hunt mentality that concerns me. If I witnessed something like that, I would go through the chain…I would request a meeting with the priest, if he refused based on what I wanted to talk to him about, I would go to the Bishop. If the priest did speak to me, I would make sure I had written documentation to back it up…and I would warn him that there are less than savory characters out there who are secretly filming his mass and he could take it from there. I would like to give the priest in error the benefit of the doubt. I would then write a letter to the bishop, and let him know that I met with the priest and what we talked about. The ball would then be in the Bishop’s court, as it should be, to follow up on the abuses. His job is to run the diocese…and I would respect him enough to let him do that.

I would not skulk around parishes with a hidden video camera, post the video on the web thus creating the mad villagers…(i.e. Beauty and Beast movie) storming the church steps. Nor would I use it to promote “scare tactics”, that the church is going to hell in a handbasket to prove my own agenda of turning the clock back to the good 'ol days, (pre VatII)

I would respect the heirarchy of the church, and follow the chain of command. If the abuses continued…again, I would leave it in the hands of the Bishop. If he gets enough legitimate complaints in the proper protocol, he may do something. In light of the scandals…the Bishop has to be on his toes in all matters of error.
Click to expand...
I think it is very enlightening to go to the website given at the end of the film and read what has been tried and what hasn’t.
 
Karin said:
Hmm…and what if the Bishop does not take your word for it"?
If you have visual proof…IMHO this speaks louder at times than the written word in showing abuses.
IMHO I think ALL masses should be video taped (like they do at teh Vatican) that way the Priests that do allow abuses will be less hesitant to preform them.

but this is just my opinion and I dont expect anyone else to agree with it
Click to expand...
I personally don’t like cameras in Church 😦 I understand as Brendan pointed out, they use them as the Vatican, this is fine but that is different as others have pointed out.
 
anamchara said:
I personally don’t like cameras in Church 😦 I understand as Brendan pointed out, they use them as the Vatican, this is fine but that is different as others have pointed out.
Click to expand...
well the way they video tape the Masses at the Vatican can also be done in most Parishes…with respect and without distracting from the Mass…
I just think it would solve lots of issues about abuse(s).
once again just my opinion I dont expect anybody else to agree with me
 
frommi said:
I’m quite sure…Cardinal Arinze has no authority over a bishop’s diocese…or over a bishop.

He may be the instrument by which the pope communicates an indult or lack of indult (like the purification of vessels).

But more or less…no…he doesn’t have the college of bishops reporting to him on the topic of liturgy. It doesn’t work that way.
Click to expand...
Cardinal Arinze has whatever authority over the celebration of the Liturgy that the Holy See says he has.

It’s called delegation.
 
Brendan said:
Cardinal Arinze has whatever authority over the celebration of the Liturgy that the Holy See says he has.

It’s called delegation.
Click to expand...
No Bishop can be called before Cardinal Arinze and disciplined for anything to do with the liturgy. There is no provision in canon law for such a thing.
 
frommi said:
No Bishop can be called before Cardinal Arinze and disciplined for anything to do with the liturgy. There is no provision in canon law for such a thing.
Click to expand...
Correct. Bishops are answerable only to the Pope.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
A common misunderstanding is that the GIRM tells you that you “can’t do” anything. The GIRM tells you what you will do.
Click to expand...
Then it would stand to reason that if the GIRM does not state that we should videotape, then we should not. 😃

Fortunately my priest does not allow cameras during Mass of any sort. It is a reverence issue. Even weddings pictures can only be taken after.
 
Joysong said:
And, pray tell, do you know for a FACT that the Agnus Dei in the O.P. is deficient as specified by the GIRM? You have seen it? You are publicly allowed to condemn it based on assumptions?

You know, Netm, the more you talk against the new liturgy, its ministers, its piety, its missals, its unorthodoxy, I suppose you believe that by “much speaking,” others will hear. What they will hear is a bias full of pride and contempt for a sacred and lawful liturgy of Holy Mother Church.

Continue speaking, and you will eventually lose all support.
Click to expand...
Joysong:

As was posted in the Apologetics Section, and as I reposted yesterday to someone who asked if a particular thing he had seen was lawful, the GIRM allows little, if any, variation from the assigned words for the Agnus Dei, or for most of the prayers for the Mass, in this case, those words are the ones everyone here is accustomed to, not the ones the priest read from the Oregon Press Missal. The fact the Oregon Press Missal carries the correct Agnus Dei as an “Alternative Prayer” does not eliminate the fact that the Appointed Prayer is not lawful for use in the Ordo Missae 1970.

These should be cause for concern, esp. given the Liturgical Abuses that some Bishops have allowed.

I fail to see how it’s prideful or contemptuous to want the Mass to be celebrated in a manner that is reverent, pius and fully recognizes who it is that comes down to the Altar to Grace us with His Presence.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
 
frommi said:
I’m quite sure…Cardinal Arinze has no authority over a bishop’s diocese…or over a bishop.

He may be the instrument by which the pope communicates an indult or lack of indult (like the purification of vessels).

But more or less…no…he doesn’t have the college of bishops reporting to him on the topic of liturgy. It doesn’t work that way.
Click to expand...
Frommi:

In his office, Cardinal Arinze is communicating in the Name of the Pope and acting in the Pope’s authority. When He does that, by reason of the office, he has authority over individual Bishops or groups of Bishops.

That’s the way it is with all of the Prefects of all of the Congregations…

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
 
Brothers and Sisters:

GIRM Pg. 89;

366. It is not permitted to substitute other chants for those found in the Order of the Mass, such as the Agnus Dei.

ourladyswarriors.org/liturgy/girm2003.htm (use the pdf)
nccbuscc.org/liturgy/current/chapter7.shtml

I hope that settles the one argument.

GIRM Pg. 27;

*66. The Homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a lay person.65 In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate.

…
  1. The purpose of the Symbolum or Profession of Faith, or Creed, is that the whole gathered people may respond to the word of God proclaimed in the readings taken from Sacred Scripture and explained in the homily and that they may also call to mind and confess the great mysteries of the faith by reciting the rule of faith in a formula approved for liturgical use, before these mysteries are celebrated in the Eucharist.
  2. The Creed is to be sung or said by the priest together with the people on Sundays and Solemnities. It may be said also at particular celebrations of a more solemn character.*
ourladyswarriors.org/liturgy/girm2003.htm (use the pdf)
nccbuscc.org/liturgy/current/chapter2.shtml#sect3

That should settle those two.

Everyone here should download and link the copy of the GIRM. This is what the Masses are supposed to conform to, and the Bishops are supposed to enforce.

While most Masses will conform to this, and most Bishops will try to enforce this, a few will not. If you can show the violations and what rules were broken to the appropriate authority, you might be able to help bring about their correction.

Whatever you do must be done in love, remembering that you are talking about priests and bishops who deserve and need all of the support and love we can give them, even when correcting them. That doesn’t mean we doen’t correct when correction is needed.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
 
And on that note, the thread is now closed. Thanks to all who participated in a meaningful manner.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top