Another NFP issue

[searching06]

GracieJayne,
Would you believe my wonderful wife just sent me something out of the blue, in relation to something else, but it is quite appropriate for everyone in your husband’s and my shoes - have him read Ephesians 6 - putting on the armor of God.

 

[GracieJayne]

If you search through some of the posts on NFP and frustration, you will find that I am exactly in line with and feel/seem just like your husband. Everything you observe/state is dead on about how he feels; I am the same and it is very difficult. While some other men on these forums seem to deal or accept things so easily (maybe not the case or it’s taken time), I am not one who is there yet…

Well now I know my husband is not alone.

Can I ask you do you get angry with your wife when she turns you down? My dh swears he’s not angry but it feels like he’s angry. I really, really try to be available to him when were in our non-fertile time. We use phase I as well as phase III (even during the times I’m on my period -sorry if that’s too much information ). It’s not like I don’t want to be with him because I do. It feels like I have to choose between God and my dh sometimes and I HATE that.

Most of time I feel alot of compassion and empathy for him but sometimes it’s just too much pressure on me and I feel really angry and hurt. I just want to yell “Don’t you know how hard this is for me to keep telling you no! Why do ask when you know we can’t!” And there are times when I start to feel used. Sometimes I just start crying out of frustration and then dh feels really bad and apologizes and promises to try harder. But it only lasts a few days.

I’m more than willing to show lots of physical affection during phase II (I love physical affection too) but it never seems to be enough. And without a climax point where do we draw the line?

Is there anything else besides physical intimacy that makes you feel close to your wife? Is there anything else I can do? My dh and I have known each other since we were kids. I love him with all my heart. I just want to fix this but I don’t know how.

 

[RWMorris]

I know exactly how you feel, Gracie. DH is so great in every other way that when he gets really tense and stressed about going without sex for even a couple of days, it really wears me down. I just want to fix it, even though there’s no way I can!
Your husband’s stress is real, though - if he’s like my husband, even several days without sex is too much to ask.
Just curious - there’s no way you can just acquiesce even if you might get pregnant? I mean, is there a reason you can’t get pregnant? that’s what I’ve done!

 

[searching06]

Well now I know my husband is not alone.

Can I ask you do you get angry with your wife when she turns you down? My dh swears he’s not angry but it feels like he’s angry. I really, really try to be available to him when were in our non-fertile time. We use phase I as well as phase III (even during the times I’m on my period -sorry if that’s too much information ). It’s not like I don’t want to be with him because I do. It feels like I have to choose between God and my dh sometimes and I HATE that.

Most of time I feel alot of compassion and empathy for him but sometimes it’s just too much pressure on me and I feel really angry and hurt. I just want to yell “Don’t you know how hard this is for me to keep telling you no! Why do ask when you know we can’t!” And there are times when I start to feel used. Sometimes I just start crying out of frustration and then dh feels really bad and apologizes and promises to try harder. But it only lasts a few days.

I’m more than willing to show lots of physical affection during phase II (I love physical affection too) but it never seems to be enough. And without a climax point where do we draw the line?

Is there anything else besides physical intimacy that makes you feel close to your wife? Is there anything else I can do? My dh and I have known each other since we were kids. I love him with all my heart. I just want to fix this but I don’t know how.

No, I don’t get angry; it is more I am very much resigned to the fact we cannot do anything. But I hardly ever bring it up for that reason, and never directly so. I don’t want to put my wife in the position of choosing between God and me either, but that is one of the huge struggles I have with these Church teachings - I deeply do not feel it should have to be that kind of a choice! If having another child is not an option, as it is not financially for us, and we see each other so little as it is, following NFP means very little intercourse even if we are together at ph 3. If the lack of sexual intimacy hurts the relationship, which I feel it is, I cannot understand how other sexual acts, even to climax, done out of love and for the emotional intimacy of the relationship, are so wrong, especially as we are still open to life when we are in ph 3 (and we also use ph 1). Following Church teachings can/does lead to hurt and resentment, but the bottom line choices are sin or not to sin because other acts are not open to life. At times I do quietly resent my wife and feel rejected; but I also honestly try to look at her as my example of what I need to be. The problem with feeling resentment and rejected is it easily can lead to sin.

As for physical attention in ph 2, the only thing we do is hug; I have found over the last few years I have not been as affectionate overall (many other things contribute to this, not just a lack of sexual intimacy, but it is a big piece), but I am working on getting better at hugging, holding hands. It is my duty as a husband and Catholic to deal with this; I don’t like or understand it, but I also do not have a choice.

And for being close to my wife, I try to look at all of the little things she does for me, even just being caring and considerate, or at the hints of Divine intervention in her actions or words, such as the e-mail she sent on Ephesians 6. But I am very much aware that I am the one with the most work to do to show my wife I love her. I will tell you, I admire and respect the communication you two seem to share, especially on such a sensitive and terribly difficult issue. Continue to pray as it helps my wife, which will also help me.

I do feel that other than prayer and communication, there is nothing wives can directly do. However, the greatest thing you have done, as a loving and caring wife is affirmed for your husband that his feelings are real, especially his feeling that giving you physical satisfaction brings him emotionally closer. I think this is something the Church does not deal with well at all (see NFP and Men’s Complaints). The feelings and hurt that we have are really only ours to deal with in the end because we have to fight to get in line with Church teachings, literally suppress emotional desires as well as physical, and fight temptation. The problem with fighting is the more you try, the more temptation there is. There’s a Padre Pio quote in there somewhere.

Please understand that I do not want to be all gloom and doom or present that this is hopeless; I am looking for help, too. But for us, following Church teachings on sexual intimacy and following NFP, combined with a number of other issues, has created much of the stress and effects on our lives.

 

[searching06]

Well now I know my husband is not alone.

Can I ask you do you get angry with your wife when she turns you down? My dh swears he’s not angry but it feels like he’s angry. I really, really try to be available to him when were in our non-fertile time. We use phase I as well as phase III (even during the times I’m on my period -sorry if that’s too much information ). It’s not like I don’t want to be with him because I do. It feels like I have to choose between God and my dh sometimes and I HATE that.

Most of time I feel alot of compassion and empathy for him but sometimes it’s just too much pressure on me and I feel really angry and hurt. I just want to yell “Don’t you know how hard this is for me to keep telling you no! Why do ask when you know we can’t!” And there are times when I start to feel used. Sometimes I just start crying out of frustration and then dh feels really bad and apologizes and promises to try harder. But it only lasts a few days.

I’m more than willing to show lots of physical affection during phase II (I love physical affection too) but it never seems to be enough. And without a climax point where do we draw the line?

Is there anything else besides physical intimacy that makes you feel close to your wife? Is there anything else I can do? My dh and I have known each other since we were kids. I love him with all my heart. I just want to fix this but I don’t know how.

No, I don’t get angry; it is more I am very much resigned to the fact we cannot do anything. But I hardly ever bring it up for that reason, and never directly so. I don’t want to put my wife in the position of choosing between God and me either, but that is one of the huge struggles I have with these Church teachings - I deeply do not feel it should have to be that kind of a choice! If having another child is not an option, as it is not financially for us, and we see each other so little as it is, following NFP means very little intercourse even if we are together at ph 3. If the lack of sexual intimacy hurts the relationship, which I feel it is, I cannot understand how other sexual acts, even to climax, done out of love and for the emotional intimacy of the relationship, are so wrong, especially as we are still open to life when we are in ph 3 (and we also use ph 1). Following Church teachings can/does lead to hurt and resentment, but the bottom line choices are sin or not to sin because other acts are not open to life. At times I do quietly resent my wife and feel rejected; but I also honestly try to look at her as my example of what I need to be. The problem with feeling resentment and rejected is it easily can lead to sin.

As for physical attention in ph 2, the only thing we do is hug; I have found over the last few years I have not been as affectionate overall (many other things contribute to this, not just a lack of sexual intimacy, but it is a big piece), but I am working on getting better at hugging, holding hands. It is my duty as a husband and Catholic to deal with this; I don’t like or understand it, but I also do not have a choice.

And for being close to my wife, I try to look at all of the little things she does for me, even just being caring and considerate, or at the hints of Divine intervention in her actions or words, such as the e-mail she sent on Ephesians 6. But I am very much aware that I am the one with the most work to do to show my wife I love her. I will tell you, I admire and respect the communication you two seem to share, especially on such a sensitive and terribly difficult issue. Continue to pray as it helps my wife, which will also help me.

I do feel that other than prayer and communication, there is nothing wives can directly do. However, the greatest thing you have done, as a loving and caring wife is affirmed for your husband that his feelings are real, especially his feeling that giving you physical satisfaction brings him emotionally closer. I do not think this is something the Church deals with well at all (see NFP and Men’s Complaints). The feelings and hurt that we have are really only ours to deal with in the end because we have to fight to get in line with Church teachings, literally suppress emotional desires as well as physical, and fight temptation. The problem with fighting is the more you try, the more temptation there is. There’s a Padre Pio quote in there somewhere.

Please understand that I do not want to be all gloom and doom or present that this is hopeless; I am looking for help, too. But for us, following Church teachings on sexual intimacy and following NFP, combined with a number of other issues, has created much of the stress and effects on our lives.

 

[GracieJayne]

I know exactly how you feel, Gracie. DH is so great in every other way that when he gets really tense and stressed about going without sex for even a couple of days, it really wears me down. I just want to fix it, even though there’s no way I can!
Your husband’s stress is real, though - if he’s like my husband, even several days without sex is too much to ask.
Just curious - there’s no way you can just acquiesce even if you might get pregnant? I mean, is there a reason you can’t get pregnant? that’s what I’ve done!

We do have serious reason to avoid. I have health issues that are a grave concern. We have seen specialists, and had more than one opinion. We have also had counsel from our priest. Certainly we would both love more children. We both come from big families and even before embracing all the church teachings had planned on four children. But we have learned God’s plans can be different than our own. If my health wasn’t a concern I’m sure we’d have a much larger family.

 

[GracieJayne]

No, I don’t get angry; it is more I am very much resigned to the fact we cannot do anything. But I hardly ever bring it up for that reason, and never directly so. I don’t want to put my wife in the position of choosing between God and me either, but that is one of the huge struggles I have with these Church teachings - I deeply do not feel it should have to be that kind of a choice! If having another child is not an option, as it is not financially for us, and we see each other so little as it is, following NFP means very little intercourse even if we are together at ph 3. If the lack of sexual intimacy hurts the relationship, which I feel it is, I cannot understand how other sexual acts, even to climax, done out of love and for the emotional intimacy of the relationship, are so wrong, especially as we are still open to life when we are in ph 3 (and we also use ph 1). Following Church teachings can/does lead to hurt and resentment, but the bottom line choices are sin or not to sin because other acts are not open to life. At times I do quietly resent my wife and feel rejected; but I also honestly try to look at her as my example of what I need to be. The problem with feeling resentment and rejected is it easily can lead to sin…

First of all I want to thank you for sharing your personal struggles with me. It has been a great help to hear your honest feelings on the matter. Sometimes I think my dh doesn’t fully disclose his feelings for fear of upsetting me. I will share the Bible passage with my husband when he gets home tonight.

I’m curious why you have difficulty hugging and holding hands when you crave physical intimacy? Is it a build of resentment or something else?

I know there has to be times my dh resents this whole situation. This is not what he signed up for. When we were married we were not at all in line with church teaching. I was a bit of a wild child and honestly I think he enjoyed that. We’ve never had periods where we had to abstain before. Our relationship became very physical very fast. There are definitely damaging effects from not following church teaching. Except I don’t know how to undo it -is there even a way?

In other ways my dh is a very Godly man. I began having a reconversion of sorts when our girls were small, shortly after our second daughter was born. He supported me completely and after a while had a reconversion of his own. It’s just this one area of our lives. I don’t know maybe it’s just our cross to bear. Maybe this is what we have to suffer as consequence for having sex before marriage and contracepting for so many years.

I do pray for him and I pray to God to lead me in what I’m supposed to do with this. I’m just not finding any answers right now. He’s hurting and I know that’s real. This time in my cycle is just awful for both of us.

I will pray for and for your marriage as well. I’m sorry this has created so much stress for you both. Is there anyway to find more time to be together when you are not in phase II?

Thank you again for sharing your feelings and for your help.

May God bless you.

 

[searching06]

OK, here we go. This is one of the things where I so seriously question what the Church is teaching. You cannot have more children for the sake of your health; you are, it seems, putting yourself at risk even by following NFP because there is still the chance of pregnancy (now that, God bless you, is a leap of faith); and the infrequency of sexual intimacy is possibly affecting your relationship with your husband, or maybe his with you.

Yours may not be the perfect example because you do/are able to take advantage of ph 3/1. But if eventually or suddenly you could not, the church *still *teaches that any other sexual act is out of the question because it is not open to life, even if being open would endanger the wife…??? So does the Church expect a couple to either have a sexless marriage or commit sin if they engage in other acts so they have some sort of sexual intimacy, or have them use NFP anyway and pray for the best? Do you/ does anyone believe that God expects that it is better to put the wife at risk? I honestly don’t get it. What was the counsel from your priest on both using NFP and avoiding other activities, if I may?

I know, I know - sin is sin, and I have to keep praying to get where I need to be. I’m working on it. But this is exactly what the Church avoids answering or providing instruction on or seems to be just saying “oh, well” when the only definition of unitive is intercourse no matter the impact on a couple’s relationship or health of the wife.

Maybe I should be “frustratedandconfused07”

 

[searching06]

First of all I want to thank you for sharing your personal struggles with me. It has been a great help to hear your honest feelings on the matter. Sometimes I think my dh doesn’t fully disclose his feelings for fear of upsetting me. I will share the Bible passage with my husband when he gets home tonight.

I’m curious why you have difficulty hugging and holding hands when you crave physical intimacy? Is it a build of resentment or something else?

I know there has to be times my dh resents this whole situation. This is not what he signed up for. When we were married we were not at all in line with church teaching. I was a bit of a wild child and honestly I think he enjoyed that. We’ve never had periods where we had to abstain before. Our relationship became very physical very fast. There are definitely damaging effects from not following church teaching. Except I don’t know how to undo it -is there even a way?

In other ways my dh is a very Godly man. I began having a reconversion of sorts when our girls were small, shortly after our second daughter was born. He supported me completely and after a while had a reconversion of his own. It’s just this one area of our lives. I don’t know maybe it’s just our cross to bear. Maybe this is what we have to suffer as consequence for having sex before marriage and contracepting for so many years.

I do pray for him and I pray to God to lead me in what I’m supposed to do with this. I’m just not finding any answers right now. He’s hurting and I know that’s real. This time in my cycle is just awful for both of us.

I will pray for and for your marriage as well. I’m sorry this has created so much stress for you both. Is there anyway to find more time to be together when you are not in phase II?

Thank you again for sharing your feelings and for your help.

May God bless you.

I think somehow we were supposed to find each other on this board. Your approach is like my wife’s and I feel like your husband!

I am sure I do not fully share my feelings either, esp. in this area. It is not the way we used to be; our communication was one area which made our marriage so strong. Our faith was the other. The other factors I mentioned, besides the sexually frustrating ones, are that my wife and I see each other two days a week; I work days, she works nights (for several years though we are hoping for a day shift soon); we disagree on raising teenagers and have had a challenging child; always the finances; and I have not been fulfilled in my job for many years, being quite angry at God. So on top of issues already causing stress/distance, we threw in NFP and found out what the Church taught about sexual behavior. It feels like the one person in whom I should be able to find the most intimate comfort was taken away. We never really restrained ourselves either after marriage. And so yes, even the littlest gestures such as holding hands, and communication, has become very difficult because of built up resentment. You hit it on the head.

I think “astute” would be best to describe your comment on what we are experiencing: suffering consequences of the past, and I don’t know how or if it can be undone either. Prayer is going to be the only answer. My wife also said maybe it is the cross we have to bear, and we’re not guaranteed happiness on this earth. It hit me earlier today that maybe, somehow, this is what the Church has in mind, through these teachings, to attain holiness.

I will most certainly pray for the both of you as well. With all of that said above about all of the stressors in life, I do have to say that I finally acknowledged and accepted that what God has in mind for me in this life is not what I had planned. Accepting that is causing a conversion in me and is slowly bearing fruit in our relationship. This area of sexuality is also the main issue for me, though my wife would not know it, I do not think.

 

[GracieJayne]

OK, here we go. This is one of the things where I so seriously question what the Church is teaching. You cannot have more children for the sake of your health; you are, it seems, putting yourself at risk even by following NFP because there is still the chance of pregnancy (now that, God bless you, is a leap of faith); and the infrequency of sexual intimacy is possibly affecting your relationship with your husband, or maybe his with you…

Hmm…maybe you and dh are twins separated at birth?

The counsel from our priest started with a kind and elderly priest telling me in confession to just to completely abstain. I knew that wasn’t going to work. So I made an appointment with our fantastic parish priest to discuss it.

He was amazingly sensitive to our situation. He truly seemed to understand the unitive aspect of intimacy. When I told him what the elderly priest said he just rolled his eyes and smiled. He talked about how older generations of priests weren’t taught so much about the unitive aspects of intimacy. He agreed our situation called for using NFP to avoid -that there was serious enough reason to do so. He also said if I was confident with my ability to use NFP wisely than that should be our path instead of completely abstaining. He did say if “things” happened by accident that was not a sin which at first gave me some comfort but now has actually only made things worse because of my husband pushing closer to the “point of no return”.

I am not afraid about using NFP. God has given me a sense of peace about it. Your comments about abstaining and a sexless marriage are probably exactly what my dh feels but won’t express fully. I know it has made him struggle sometimes with his relationship with God.

If we should have to completely abstain it would be very difficult not just for him but for me. I want to be with my dh, giving up that aspect of our relationship would break my heart. But I remind myself that so many others suffering is much worse than ours. What doesn’t make sense to me is the need to be emotional close sexually is so strong that the actions of the person actually becoming damaging and hurt the relationship.

I would like to believe our marriage could survive anything even not being able to be intimate sexually. But could it? I don’t know. I believe I could still be happy but I don’t know about my dh. And what does that say about how strong our marriage is? Should the church have to make concessions because of human weakness? There are people that struggle with other sin. Where do we draw the line? Does the church change because what it asks is too hard for some? I also think placing such a huge importance on sexual intimacy is not healthy -something is not in order. We need to change, not the church. I’ve encouraged my dh to talk to Fr. John about it -after all who knows more about abstaining than a priest right?

So here I am still stuck in the middle of phase II, dh is coming home from work tonight with “lovin’” on his mind. He doesn’t know how hard it is to turn away from him and ignore his needs. It tears my heart apart.
All I can do is pray.

 

[searching06]

GracieJayne, all I can say is you are a truly amazing person, lady, wife. Wow. First and foremost, from the heart, with your faith as strong as it so obviously is, as is the love of your husband, believe God absolutely will give you the strength to abstain if that is what you chose. Your husband, too. And as it is a hypothetical, I would encourage you with all my heart to not judge now whether your marriage would survive or how strong it is. Not to say you do not need to consider it; I do not know your health situation. I would simply suggest not rushing to conclusions.

You are so correct, even as I struggle, in your questions about the Church making concessions for human weakness, others struggling with sin, etc. God has blessed you with incredible wisdom and child-like faith, and it has given me pause. “Meeting” like this was no accident.

As for the need to be emotionally close sexually being so strong, a few thoughts hit me, some only now. For me personally, as I have struggled in not being fulfilled in any job for fourteen years, it has grated and worn away at my self-confidence, to the point I have had very little as a person/husband/father. So the need to be fulfilled has to come in part from my wife; if a husband cannot have (in the loving sense) his wife in the most intimate of ways for even that comfort, it unintentionally builds resentment towards her, God, the Church. It overflows into every part of the relationship. And I can tell you that personally, if I fail in my struggles, it only hurts me worse. I sincerely apologize if I seem gloom and doom; I have no idea where your husband is in his struggles and not all things are the same for all men - just read the posts of others who seem to be fine. There is hope for us poor souls!

With all of that said, I can tell you that I only recently came to acknowledge and, more importantly, to accept God’s plan for me in this life. What I have wanted to do is not what He has wanted me to do, and He has protected me from myself to keep me for the plans He surely has for me. He has shown me that in finally telling Him “yes”, that the things I thought were important - what I am in my job - are truly not, and the quiet confidence He is now growing in me is so radically different from what I have come to expect all of my life. I have long believed He has been humbling me slowly, probably because I have been fighting Him all the way. And as I work and pray daily to embrace His will, there is a peace growing within our relationship as a married couple, even in this, the most sensitive and intimate of areas.

I do hope I have made sense. I can say I have opened up more here to you than I have to my wife, and something tells me this may give me the courage to do so.

I wish I could give you a big hug:hug1: So here is a virtual one! God bless you and your husband, GracieJayne; you are in my prayers and I humbly ask for yours.

 

[GracieJayne]

GracieJayne, all I can say is you are a truly amazing person, lady, wife. Wow. First and foremost, from the heart, with your faith as strong as it so obviously is, as is the love of your husband, believe God absolutely will give you the strength to abstain if that is what you chose. Your husband, too. And as it is a hypothetical, I would encourage you with all my heart to not judge now whether your marriage would survive or how strong it is. Not to say you do not need to consider it; I do not know your health situation. I would simply suggest not rushing to conclusions.

I don’t believe our meeting was accidental either.

What you have said makes a lot of sense to me. My dh is the youngest of 5 kids. He is the only one without a college degree out of all them. His family is very negative and critical. Only in the last couple years when he started with a new company has found any job satisfaction. He’s had failed job situations that have caused him a lot of distress. Intimacy is one thing my dh has always known he’s good at.

I’ve known my dh since middle school. In fact I had a big crush on him for years. He always had girls after him. I think my dh is very good looking but I know back then he was a pretty average looking guy. He just knew how to get the girls to go ga-ga over him. It was not a bunch on one-liners, it’s genuine and girls knew that. There is a sweetness (yet in a masculine way) about my dh that is very attractive.

It was the 80’s - big hair, tight pants and rock & roll. I was the attention seeking middle child. In highschool I finally got his attention -but it was an on again off again thing. Although the on again off again involved sex. Finally in our senior year we dated steadily until we married -young. We were both 20.

We’ve had our struggles over the years. Mostly financial, trying to compete with his older higher wage earning siblings. I think he’s finally given up on that. And the regular marriage stuff but nothing too serious. Once we became parents things began to change for me. I didn’t want to be “wild” anymore. I felt drawn back to the faith -hardly back I barely knew it to begin with. Dh wasn’t too thrilled at first but knowing how important it was to me he made a serious effort to understand and to listen to my thoughts about our faith. He slowly began a reconversion of his own. Anyway I’m rambling again…

I think my dh has been fighting God too. I think this one part of our relationship he just wants to be the way it was before. He knows that can’t happen - I think it hinders him having a deeper relationship with God.

Our talks here have helped me deal with some of my feelings and frustrations about this whole situation. It’s becoming apparent to me that this very deep need for sexual intimacy for my dh is stemming from a void in his life not even related to sex.

Still don’t have a clue how to fix it though. How do I help him find fulfillment in other parts of his life? To stop comparing our success to monetary and material things? I am perfectly happy in our modest three bedroom house. I don’t need all the stuff he sees his siblings (and mine) have. And how do I let him know he is so much more than a great lover? I’m sorry I really don’t expect you have all the answers. I’m just thinking out loud. Maybe I’m asking God?

Thank you so much for being a listening ear and thank you for your prayers. (And the cyber-hug ) I will continue to keep both you and your wife in mine. God bless you.

 

[searching06]

And I thought I was up late!

I’m there with your husband in wishing things could be as they were in the sexual intimacy area; we have to admit that apparently it was fun. But I also want our relationship to be back to where it was PK (pre-kids) - more open communication, focus on our faith together, and genuine affection in the little ways of holding hands, snuggling. We’re getting there as life changes - my two older kids are pretty much on their own schedule, so they are low maintenance (well, one of them is); unfortunately, much of the strife we have dealt with which impacted our relationship has been dealing with a rebellious teenager - drains the emotional life out of you. He is again at the shape-up-or-ship-out stage, and sad as it is, home is much more peaceful without him there because the contention is not there. Our two youngest are joys to be with. But as the house “gets smaller”, we’re slowly find time to be together, even for a few minutes. Now I’m rambling…

I can absolutely attest to the reality that fighting God, even unknowingly, makes one an unhappy camper. How do you help him? Pray, make gentle suggestions, affirm him in areas where he succeeds (not necessarily work related). You may think it is falling on deaf ears, but it usually sinks in later; personally, the low self-esteem can make it hard to accept or even want to hear that I’m actually an OK person or worth something in life; I struggle with that now. Make sense? Believe me, so much of this is hindsight. I have gone through six different jobs/positions in the course of 14 years, each one a step down on the rung, it seems. That does not do much to help self-confidence or -esteem. I desperately tried for a number of years to go back to the military because it was the only place I ever found where I felt I “was something” or “I mattered” and I was passionate about my mission. I blamed God for taking that from me, it made me a fairly miserable person, and it affected my wife and me. Our sex life was the one thing to hang on to because it was/is the most intimate acceptance by my wife when everything else fell apart (and it was very much a physical release from frustration, a sexual release, and satisfaction as a man/husband in giving my wife pleasure, too), and then “the Church and God took that, too”. So it is as you said, and I don’t think this dawned on me - the intense need for sexual intimacy stems from the need to fill a big void in a man, a need for acceptance. (And part of the acceptance as I mentioned is *needing *your wife to return the physical loving, and know that she is doing so willingly and lovingly). I do not think it at all lessens the importance of the need, but maybe it helps if you understand it is not just sexual. It gives a very real intense, emotional closeness. Not to go with TMI, but I remember times say, in the height of things , that we could not get close enough it was so intense emotionally and physically, you know? To think of that as being restricted by Church or for whatever reason is what creates the struggle.

One thing I could strongly suggest for both of you, esp. your husband, is to see if there are men’s/women’s group at church. Ours has faith renewal weekends called Christ Renews His Parish (for men and women, separately). It is about a faith journey, not a retreat, and can very much help heal wounds and your relationship with God. My weekend did not bear fruit for several years, others had major conversions at the time. I think God was testing me still even then.

I sincerely thank you for letting me be a listening ear, and especially for you being one for me. I promise continued prayers.

 

[GracieJayne]

And I thought I was up late!

I’m there with your husband in wishing things could be as they were in the sexual intimacy area; we have to admit that apparently it was fun. But I also want our relationship to be back to where it was PK (pre-kids) - more open communication, focus on our faith together, and genuine affection in the little ways of holding hands, snuggling. We’re getting there as life changes - my two older kids are pretty much on their own schedule, so they are low maintenance (well, one of them is); unfortunately, much of the strife we have dealt with which impacted our relationship has been dealing with a rebellious teenager - drains the emotional life out of you. He is again at the shape-up-or-ship-out stage, and sad as it is, home is much more peaceful without him there because the contention is not there. Our two youngest are joys to be with. But as the house “gets smaller”, we’re slowly find time to be together, even for a few minutes. Now I’m rambling…

Yeah I was waiting up for my dh. If I sound a little fuzzy headed I’m loaded up on cold medicine. I started feeling sick last night.

Pre-kids -see there you have an advantage. We had no real spiritual life prior to our girls. We never had a focus on our faith until after becoming parents. I think our communication is pretty good. After having MaryKate and right before getting pregnant with Emily we did go on a Marriage Encounter weekend. I think that helped us a lot and it’s really what started my reversion back to the faith.

I will check around for mens group for my dh. I know the mens group at our parish is mostly retired men who have breakfast at 6 am. Doesn’t sound like fun for my 2nd shift working dh. But maybe I can find something within our diocese ,and I’ll look for a group for me as well.

My dh does have a lot of wounds. His growing up was tough. His parents were outwardly religious but in the home it was much different. He’s told me he prayed to God as a child to change things but nothing ever got better only worse. I know he became bitter about that for a time. And I think he still blames God for the suffering he experienced. His parents marriage deteriorated and him being the youngest he saw the worst of it. They are still married -good Catholics don’t get divorced right? They are still pretty awful to him. They compare him to his siblings a lot. They often pit their grown children against each other in some sick kind of competition. And now we have to deal with the same thing with the grandkids. So we don’t see them very much. It always leaves my dh depressed.

What you descibe about the intense emotional closeness and having that part of our life he could always depend on is exactly as my dh describes his feelings. I do really need prayers right now. This time in my cycle I’m approaching the period where I naturally have a strong physical desire to be close with my dh. It’s a battle I fight alone because I can’t count on my dh to say “Hon, we can’t right now.” Being sick has helped tone it down some. Sometimes I think God intervenes in these ways.

But dh and I had a good talk last night, and hearing your story has really made me have so much for empathy for him. I’m usually so tense and impatient with him during this time. I don’t feel that right now. Ofcourse having good talks makes me want to be closer to him so there is the battle once again.

I hope you do get a chance to sit down and share your thoughts with your wife. With some prompting from some of things you’ve brought up here I was able to have such a wonderful talk with my dh last night. I was afraid this issue was going to tear us apart but I don’t feel that anymore.

Well I’m going to have some chicken soup now…
Have a good night.

 

[searching06]

Yeah I was waiting up for my dh. If I sound a little fuzzy headed I’m loaded up on cold medicine. I started feeling sick last night.

Pre-kids -see there you have an advantage. We had no real spiritual life prior to our girls. We never had a focus on our faith until after becoming parents. I think our communication is pretty good. After having MaryKate and right before getting pregnant with Emily we did go on a Marriage Encounter weekend. I think that helped us a lot and it’s really what started my reversion back to the faith.

I will check around for mens group for my dh. I know the mens group at our parish is mostly retired men who have breakfast at 6 am. Doesn’t sound like fun for my 2nd shift working dh. But maybe I can find something within our diocese ,and I’ll look for a group for me as well.

My dh does have a lot of wounds. His growing up was tough. His parents were outwardly religious but in the home it was much different. He’s told me he prayed to God as a child to change things but nothing ever got better only worse. I know he became bitter about that for a time. And I think he still blames God for the suffering he experienced. His parents marriage deteriorated and him being the youngest he saw the worst of it. They are still married -good Catholics don’t get divorced right? They are still pretty awful to him. They compare him to his siblings a lot. They often pit their grown children against each other in some sick kind of competition. And now we have to deal with the same thing with the grandkids. So we don’t see them very much. It always leaves my dh depressed.

What you descibe about the intense emotional closeness and having that part of our life he could always depend on is exactly as my dh describes his feelings. I do really need prayers right now. This time in my cycle I’m approaching the period where I naturally have a strong physical desire to be close with my dh. It’s a battle I fight alone because I can’t count on my dh to say “Hon, we can’t right now.” Being sick has helped tone it down some. Sometimes I think God intervenes in these ways.

But dh and I had a good talk last night, and hearing your story has really made me have so much for empathy for him. I’m usually so tense and impatient with him during this time. I don’t feel that right now. Ofcourse having good talks makes me want to be closer to him so there is the battle once again.

I hope you do get a chance to sit down and share your thoughts with your wife. With some prompting from some of things you’ve brought up here I was able to have such a wonderful talk with my dh last night. I was afraid this issue was going to tear us apart but I don’t feel that anymore.

Well I’m going to have some chicken soup now…
Have a good night.

I think God did change his life; He sent him you. It may not have happened at the toughest times as a child, but God does send us angels.

I cannot sit her and say I understand what your husband went through, or now what you all continue to deal with in his parents and siblings. That is nothing short of hard. But I can tell you I would do everything I could to protect my wife, kids, and self from it.

As for the courage to talk with my wife, I will have to pray for it. I absolutely fear it will tear us apart for a while, because she does not understand nor I think know how hard it has been or that it is a key part of why I have been distant for so long. She sees me as a good person; I don’t see myself as such really and fear my struggles will shatter her.

I promise you I will keep you and your husband (and kids) in my prayers especially at this time, and for your getting over your cold, too. God bless, my friend.

 

[GracieJayne]

I think God did change his life; He sent him you. It may not have happened at the toughest times as a child, but God does send us angels.

I cannot sit her and say I understand what your husband went through, or now what you all continue to deal with in his parents and siblings. That is nothing short of hard. But I can tell you I would do everything I could to protect my wife, kids, and self from it.

As for the courage to talk with my wife, I will have to pray for it. I absolutely fear it will tear us apart for a while, because she does not understand nor I think know how hard it has been or that it is a key part of why I have been distant for so long. She sees me as a good person; I don’t see myself as such really and fear my struggles will shatter her.

I promise you I will keep you and your husband (and kids) in my prayers especially at this time, and for your getting over your cold, too. God bless, my friend.

Could you manage to find time for you and your wife to go to a Marriage Encounter weekend? It’s been several years since we went on our weekend but it was a great experience for us. It’s very private - you don’t sit with a group of people and share. It’s hard to put into words but it really gives you a way to communicate in a way that your spouse that doesn’t make your spouse defensive or attacked. Actually it would probably be a good idea for us to go again.

She sees you as a good person because you are a good person. Nothing you’ve said here has led me to believe other wise. You are much too hard on yourself. I don’t know your wife ofcourse but if it were me and my husband was becoming more distant I would be relieved to find out what it was so we could try to deal with it. As a woman I know it would be easy for me to blame myself or think I was doing something wrong that was causing my dh to withdraw. In fact I’ve done that in the past.

I do understand your fears I know my dh does that to himself too. My dh doesn’t think he’s a very good person either. It makes me crazy sometime because I think the world of him. He is the best thing that has ever happened to me. Even when he does things that drive me crazy.:whacky:

 

[dkoinzan]

I will admit that I haven’t read the whole thread, but could you do me a big favor. Could you please ask your husband to pray for mine. My husband is not Catholic and has agreed to practice NFP because he loves me very much. We have buried two preborn children in the past year. My cycle is so messed up, and I have had fertile show for almost all of the past three months. My husband has been patient but I am sure this is making him crazy. He would think he was in heaven if we could be close once a week.

 

[GracieJayne]

I will admit that I haven’t read the whole thread, but could you do me a big favor. Could you please ask your husband to pray for mine. My husband is not Catholic and has agreed to practice NFP because he loves me very much. We have buried two preborn children in the past year. My cycle is so messed up, and I have had fertile show for almost all of the past three months. My husband has been patient but I am sure this is making him crazy. He would think he was in heaven if we could be close once a week.

Ofcourse I will ask my husband to pray for yours. And I will pray too. I’m so sorry for the loss of your precious babies.

Have you consulted with any experts through CCL or a prolife doctor on your experence with your cycles? How difficult it must be for both of you. May God bless your dh for his patience.

 

[searching06]

Could you manage to find time for you and your wife to go to a Marriage Encounter weekend? It’s been several years since we went on our weekend but it was a great experience for us. It’s very private - you don’t sit with a group of people and share. It’s hard to put into words but it really gives you a way to communicate in a way that your spouse that doesn’t make your spouse defensive or attacked. Actually it would probably be a good idea for us to go again.

She sees you as a good person because you are a good person. Nothing you’ve said here has led me to believe other wise. You are much too hard on yourself. I don’t know your wife ofcourse but if it were me and my husband was becoming more distant I would be relieved to find out what it was so we could try to deal with it. As a woman I know it would be easy for me to blame myself or think I was doing something wrong that was causing my dh to withdraw. In fact I’ve done that in the past.

I do understand your fears I know my dh does that to himself too. My dh doesn’t think he’s a very good person either. It makes me crazy sometime because I think the world of him. He is the best thing that has ever happened to me. Even when he does things that drive me crazy.:whacky:

Maybe you and my wife were separated at birth! She has asked if it is her causing any problems; it is not, of course, but now I see where would be easy for her to blame herself, since you said that. We’ll have to consider such a weekend.

 

[jules11]

Searching06 and GracieJayne,
You both seem to love God so much and want to do what’s right in the face of difficulties. Your faith is amazing!
God will surely bless you both in your struggles to do what’s right.
It is wonderful to hear that people find the teaching hard, yet adhere to it! So many would just give in and not even try to find out why the Church teaches what she does.
I think those that do not have life threatening situations when it comes to getting pregnant have no idea how hard it is for people that like you that do.
I will pray for you both in your marriages.

God bless you both for carrying your crosses so courageously.