Another question for ex-JWs (or current JWs)

[momin2008]

i have posted before about this subject but thought i would try again to see if i get new/different responses

my husband was raised JW and has since left their church (for lack of a better word) - his oldest sister is a very devout JW - we were married in the Catholic church and our children will and are being raised Catholic - my husband understands that this is non-negotiable and has no problem with it

my SIL has on several occasions tried to spend time with my daughter (who is now 2 yrs old) alone - she has even asked if she could keep her overnight to which i of course said no - this weekend, she asked again if my daughter could spend the night with her (to which i said no) and if she could take her to play some day (to which i responded she could come over and play with my daughter any time) - she was so insistent about the overnight visit that my husband finally asked her if overnights were the only time she was available - she then stammered some response and backed off

i am to the point where i am EXTREMELY uncomfortable having her around my daughter but will tolerate her as long as i am present - under NO circumstances will she be spending any time with my children alone - i have no doubt that my husband will back me up 110% on this, though i would prefer to keep the peace and not ask him to vocalize that decision

and now that you have the background, here is the question - is there some JW ritual/prayer/doctrine that SIL is trying to impose on my daughter - i’m not sure what she could do to counteract what she’s been taught as a Catholic - i mean, at the age of 2 she knows we pray, bless our food and say the sign of the cross - is SIL just trying to get her alone so she can fill her head with her JW beliefs or is there more to it?

 

[yellowbird]

and now that you have the background, here is the question - is there some JW ritual/prayer/doctrine that SIL is trying to impose on my daughter - i’m not sure what she could do to counteract what she’s been taught as a Catholic - i mean, at the age of 2 she knows we pray, bless our food and say the sign of the cross - is SIL just trying to get her alone so she can fill her head with her JW beliefs or is there more to it?

It’s hard to say without knowing your SIL… does she have children of her own? Maybe she just wants to be close to her neice? There isn’t any “ritual” she wants to impose on your daughter… JWs are not into rituals. They offer very little instruction to children… their meetings are geared towards adults… they don’t do Sunday School or anything like that so I’m not sure what she’d be doing with your daughter other than talking to her about Jehovah which is a very real possiblity… but at the tender age of 2 it’s not like she could get into JW doctrines about the 144,000… or the great crowd and if she did, it would probably go right over your daughter’s head.

What I might do: Allow her aunt to spend time with her (NOT over night… why is that even necessary?) but an afternoon at her home or at the park - what’s the harm assuming the JW Aunt is otherwise a trustworthy good person - but first I’d mark my daughter with the sign of the cross and holy water and I’d pray for God’s protection to surround her. As your daughter gets older you’re going to have to explain that her dear Aunt is a member of religion that isn’t true… you’ll have to go on the offense. Because eventually the Aunt will want to witness to her neice. But at age 2 - I woudln’t be too concerned. And who knows? Maybe God will use your dear daughter and her faith to bring your SIL out of false religion.

 

[yellowbird]

ii am to the point where i am EXTREMELY uncomfortable having her around my daughter but will tolerate her as long as i am present - under NO circumstances will she be spending any time with my children alone - i have no doubt that my husband will back me up 110% on this, though i would prefer to keep the peace and not ask him to vocalize that decision

OK - so after I posted, THIS jumped out at me. If you feel uncomfortable, don’t allow her to be alone w/ your daughter. You are her mother and you should listen to your instincts.

Know though that at worst, the Aunt would probably like to plant little seeds by using the name Jehovah or something like that… no rituals though… nothing like that.

 

[Katerini]

Hi Momin2008.

My life story is the very scenario that you prudently wish to spare your child from.

I was baptized a Catholic, but some of my maternal relatives were JWs. My parents saw no harm in letting me spend nights and weekends with a particular aunt. This aunt had many children, and my parents thought that being with my cousins would relieve me of the loneliness of being an only child. Familial bonding and all of that.

That was the biggest mistake that my parents ever made concerning me.

Yes, I spent time with my relatives. Relatives that were JWs. Relatives that ceaselessly proselytized about their own warped view of Christianity. My relatives took me their Kingdom Hall in the evenings, when they had their meetings. I was there so much that the JW elders (priests) knew me by my first name. Then there were the books that they gave me to read. Even when my relatives came to visit our home, they brought some of their literature for me to read.

When my father finally caught on to what they had been doing, the damage had already been done. He forbade my JW relatives to proselytize to me in any form whatsoever. But, my JW relatives did not respect even that. I would find more books secretly placed in my room after a family visit. My parents argued continuously over it. In the end, the only things that were accomplished was that: 1) all the arguing helped to push my parents apart, 2) most of my JW relatives have died without reconciling themselves with the True Church, and 3) having spent several years as a JW, I have had to spend countless hours undoing the mind control that is everyone is subjected to in that cult.

I am telling you this, because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not respect the bonds of family. At first glance it may seem so, but it just a lie. A JW absolutely must proselytize. Even to point of ignoring basic decencies between family members. It is not Christ’s command to evangelize that moves them. No, it is the thrall of being enslaved to a publishing cult that gives them their impetus.

Pray for your SIL, so that she will cast off her blindfold.
But never leave your child alone with her,and continue to supervise her closely when she’s with your daughter. Take it from me, your vigilance will spare your family much heartache.

 

[yellowbird]

Hi Momin2008.

My life story is the very scenario that you prudently wish to spare your child from.

I was baptized a Catholic, but some of my maternal relatives were JWs. My parents saw no harm in letting me spend nights and weekends with a particular aunt. This aunt had many children, and my parents thought that being with my cousins would relieve me of the loneliness of being an only child. Familial bonding and all of that.

That was the biggest mistake that my parents ever made concerning me.

Yes, I spent time with my relatives. Relatives that were JWs. Relatives that ceaselessly proselytized about their own warped view of Christianity. My relatives took me their Kingdom Hall in the evenings, when they had their meetings. I was there so much that the JW elders (priests) knew me by my first name. Then there were the books that they gave me to read. Even when my relatives came to visit our home, they brought some of their literature for me to read.

When my father finally caught on to what they had been doing, the damage had already been done. He forbade my JW relatives to proselytize to me in any form whatsoever. But, my JW relatives did not respect even that. I would find more books secretly placed in my room after a family visit. My parents argued continuously over it. In the end, the only things that were accomplished was that: 1) all the arguing helped to push my parents apart, 2) most of my JW relatives have died without reconciling themselves with the True Church, and 3) having spent several years as a JW, I have had to spend countless hours undoing the mind control that is everyone is subjected to in that cult.

I am telling you this, because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not respect the bonds of family. At first glance it may seem so, but it just a lie. A JW absolutely must proselytize. Even to point of ignoring basic decencies between family members. It is not Christ’s command to evangelize that moves them. No, it is the thrall of being enslaved to a publishing cult that gives them their impetus.

Pray for your SIL, so that she will cast off her blindfold.
But never leave your child alone with her,and continue to supervise her closely when she’s with your daughter. Take it from me, your vigilance will spare your family much heartache.

To the OP ~ THIS advice is much better than the advice I gave…

 

[T_More]

To the OP ~ THIS advice is much better than the advice I gave…

Agreed. They are always trying to do one thing with non JW’s, convert them. That’s what they are trained to do week in and week out at their meetings.

 

[momin2008]

SIL has never been married nor does she have any children - which is another reason i find it so disturbing that she want to spend so much alone time with my daughter - most adults don’t want to spend that much time with children that aren’t their own - i have told her on multiple occasions that she is free to come visit at our home anytime

thank you so much for all of your replies - especially your first hand perspective Katerini - it basically reaffirmed what i’ve been thinking all along and will help me to stand strong on my beliefs (despite my wanting to avoid a family conflict) should a confrontation arise - thanks again!

 

[Katerini]

Momin2008, I am more than glad to be of help.

You mentioned that your SIL was childless. If she did have children, she would absolutely limit the time that her children spend with you, because you are Catholic.I am surprised that she still associates with her brother, since JWs are trained to replace all natural family relationships with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, and usually shun relatives that leave the cult, which is why their facade of familial unity is such a hypocritical sham.

You may one day be forced to unequivocally state to your SIL that you have no intention of allowing her to convert your children, so she may as well stop trying to now. Your babies are not to be considered a goal for her study scorecard. Letting a JW know upfront that you’re on to their nonsense is one of the best defenses against them. And unfortunately, that day will come soon enough, I predict.

OT I know, but the last time I was in a Kingdom Hall, it was full of unmarried and childless-by-choice women. They were all hoping for a ‘theocratic’ husband, or waiting for the ‘new system’ to start a family. It was creepy as heck to be one of the few married women in there. We married women were treated as an aberration, for daring to think about families, and not being ‘strong’ enough to sacrifice our singleness for Jehovah (i.e. the more time you spend with family, the less time you spend with the JWs). If continue down that road, they will share the same fate as the Shakers.

 

[yellowbird]

). If [they] continue down that road, they will share the same fate as the Shakers.

We can only hope…

 

[momin2008]

Momin2008, I am more than glad to be of help.

You mentioned that your SIL was childless. If she did have children, she would absolutely limit the time that her children spend with you, because you are Catholic.I am surprised that she still associates with her brother, since JWs are trained to replace all natural family relationships with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, and usually shun relatives that leave the cult, which is why their facade of familial unity is such a hypocritical sham.

You may one day be forced to unequivocally state to your SIL that you have no intention of allowing her to convert your children, so she may as well stop trying to now. Your babies are not to be considered a goal for her study scorecard. **Letting a JW know upfront that you’re on to their nonsense is one of the best defenses against them. And unfortunately, that day will come soon enough, I predict. **

OT I know, but the last time I was in a Kingdom Hall, it was full of unmarried and childless-by-choice women. They were all hoping for a ‘theocratic’ husband, or waiting for the ‘new system’ to start a family. It was creepy as heck to be one of the few married women in there. We married women were treated as an aberration, for daring to think about families, and not being ‘strong’ enough to sacrifice our singleness for Jehovah (i.e. the more time you spend with family, the less time you spend with the JWs). If continue down that road, they will share the same fate as the Shakers.

Yes, and i am mentally preparing myself for it. As it is, she has been sending JWs from the local Kingdom Hall to our home since we married nearly 4 years ago under the guise that they were “checking on” my husband. Occasionally they come on a Saturday and my husband usually answers the door. He is always polite and takes their propaganda, but never invites them in and always turns down their offers of bible study. They also come by during the week while my husband is at work. They are aware that I stay at home and know he works all day, yet they always ask for him. I have told them several times that my daughter and I are Catholic and that is usually enough to send them packing (on the rare occasion that I bother to answer the door).

Last week, 2 men came by “looking” for my husband (at noon on a Wednesday). For some reason, I answered the door. I was polite but short with them. I guess that was the day they decided they would aggressively try to get to me. They asked where I went to church and explained they were both ex-Catholics. One of them started some nonsense about what will you do if you get to Heaven and how he would rather be on Earth after death. (uhhh, okay ) Then he said everything he was taught as a Catholic was a lie. That’s when i lost it. I told him that HE believed that it was a lie but that it was very much my truth. I also told him very firmly that while I appreciated his belief in his faith, that me and my children were Catholic and would remain so. They realized I was getting angry and immediately apologized and said they would not bother me again. Although my SIL has never approached me with her JW beliefs, I know it’s just a matter of time before I have to have the same conversation with her!

 

[adstrinity]

They were all hoping for a ‘theocratic’ husband, or waiting for the ‘new system’ to start a family.

…What’s a theocratic husband?

To the OP: the worst thing I can think of of your SIL doing anything (fairly benign, anyway), would be to stop getting your daughter to cross herself. Torture stake and all. And perhaps your SIL would try to undermine Chist is God to your daughter. Other than that, if you’re not comfortable with your daughter overnight at this woman’s house, don’t. Your senses are going off for a reason and I don’t want to think what could happen.

 

[Katerini]

We can only hope…

Absolutely.
They will be done in by their own foolishness, which they mistake for piety.

 

[Katerini]

Yes, and i am mentally preparing myself for it. As it is, she has been sending JWs from the local Kingdom Hall to our home since we married nearly 4 years ago under the guise that they were “checking on” my husband. Occasionally they come on a Saturday and my husband usually answers the door. He is always polite and takes their propaganda, but never invites them in and always turns down their offers of bible study. They also come by during the week while my husband is at work. They are aware that I stay at home and know he works all day, yet they always ask for him. I have told them several times that my daughter and I are Catholic and that is usually enough to send them packing (on the rare occasion that I bother to answer the door).

1. Your husband needs to stop accepting their trash. Take it from me, it is the most loving response that he could ever give them.
2. Your husband needs to send a cease and desist letter to your closest Kingdom Hall. In the letter, he must state that they are not permitted to stop by for proselytizing activities and that he wishes that his address be placed on the ‘do not call list’, and if they stop by again, it will be considered trespassing, and the police will be notified. It is also very important that he tells the next set of JWs this to their faces, as well. You can also tell them this, but it will carry much more weight if he does so, first. The ‘do not call list’ is usually good for one year, though of course they will attempt to breach that before the year is over. Also, having a NO TRESPASSING sign by your front door, or on your property, will help immensely. Several years ago, a letter went out to all the congregations stating that those JWs who went out on ‘field service’ (preaching) must respect that sign if they encountered it. If a JW was arrested and fined because of disregarding the NO TRESPASSING sign, the WTS will no longer step up and pay the fine. The individual JW is on their own with that one.

I know that you and your husband wish to keep the peace, but peace is a rare commodity when you’re dealing with a JW zealot.

 

[Katerini]

…What’s a theocratic husband?

To the OP: the worst thing I can think of of your SIL doing anything (fairly benign, anyway), would be to stop getting your daughter to cross herself. Torture stake and all. And perhaps your SIL would try to undermine Chist is God to your daughter. Other than that, if you’re not comfortable with your daughter overnight at this woman’s house, don’t. Your senses are going off for a reason and I don’t want to think what could happen.

A ‘theocratic’ husband/wife is a JW in good standing, one who attends all their meetings, spending umpteen hours being inculcated with fantasies and false prophecies, then spending countless more hours trying to spread the same poison to the general population. A person who would let their loved ones die for lack of a blood transfusion, a person who would shun former JW relatives and friends if they wised up and no longer refused to yield to their twisted scriptures, a person who would refuse to marry and bear children if they were told not to (and they were officially told this in 1938 and 1941).