Another Question for LDS

[Javl]

Again, putting in my :twocents:, in my studies of all religions for the past 60 years, I have prayed to the Holy Spirit for guidance in finding the one True Church of Jesus Christ. He led me to the Catholic Church and I pray and thank God daily that I am a Catholic.

I cannot believe that the Holy Spirit will lead someone to one cherch and then someone else to another church. He is true to Jesus’ word that He will guide you in the right direction to the one true Church only if you are completely open to His direction. All who claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit and then each goes his own way is deluded and not guided by the Holy Spirit. He does not cause confusion, nor is He its author.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

 

[Returning_Home]

Yes…when I left the Church, I was shunned. I was also harrassed. I was told I was going to hell for THE sin against the Spirit. I got phone calls at all hours. Finally, some Mormons tried to kidnap my children. It was an ugly scene with a Mormon ,ending up in the hospital and police involved.

Ok, I’ll bite…why?

I’ve heard some bad things from people who left Mormonism, but this one stunned even me. I’m so sorry you had to deal with this; there’s absolutely no call or excuse for this abberant behavior whatsoever, but I gather that someone got the message in the end, eh?

In my time talking to Mormons, I’ve been insulted and even threatened, but that’s not the people themselves as much as it is the programming they’ve been given by their church.

And the Smith who protects my family and my house isn’t Joseph Smith.

 

[MelanieAnne]

I wholly agree; this keeps people in the fold and is the reason that it’s very hard for people to make the formal break form the church; many prefer to simply be “Jack Mormons,” LDS in name only.

I find that most Mormons have problems with the faith in one way or another, but it’s drilled into them in church, three hour Sunday school, family home night, monthly missionary visits, and the other church-sponsored activities and events.

Shunning is quite real, and despite the fact that it might not be “formal”, it is something that occurs and many Mormons (or perhaps former Mormons) that have posted to this forum have attested to that fact. It’s like a “dirty little secret” that Mormons don’t want you to know. But does it happen? Absolutely, and anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant or lying.

My question about this sort of thing has always been ~ so ~ why don’t you want people to know the icky bits of your faith? Heck the Catholic faith has lots of icky things (all personal failures of individuals, none of them doctrine, but still…)

The bottom line, for me, is OUR CHURCH WAS FOUNDED BY JESUS CHRIST and that church has stood up to everything thrown against it for 2000 years. Since we are not “apostate”, the Mormon theory of “apostasy” (never clearly defined anyway) does not apply. But neither do any of the others swipes apply.

People need to give up their philosophies founded by some man or another (and often based on that man’s ego) and “come home”. The Holy Spirit is calling you. That’s why you are even LOOKING here. If you were drawn to Catholic Answers, heed the REAL call. The Holy Spirit is calling you to the Catholic faith.

 

[SirThomasMore]

I’ve heard some bad things from people who left Mormonism, but this one stunned even me. I’m so sorry you had to deal with this; there’s absolutely no call or excuse for this abberant behavior whatsoever, but I gather that someone got the message in the end, eh?

In my time talking to Mormons, I’ve been insulted and even threatened, but that’s not the people themselves as much as it is the programming they’ve been given by their church.

And the Smith who protects my family and my house isn’t Joseph Smith.

Yes, one of the males involved got the message…it was quite the drama. My son was almost 3 and my daughter was two months old

 

[SirThomasMore]

It’s understandable, from an alternative point of view, that you were told that you were told you would go to Hell. After all, whoever told you that had an entirely different understanding.

I am sorry that you were shunned, and I am particularly sorry you were stalked at all hours on the phone, although all of that is all too “normal” despite the fact that Mormons disavow it as a practice. I am sorry that anyone was injured to the point they needed medical care and I am sorry that the local authorities had to be called. It is preposterous that anyone would attempt to kidnap your children so I cannot even begin to respond to that.

I’m sure that those who stalked you, in whatever way, meant to do so in what they thought was a “loving” way. As I said, I cannot begin to understand why anyone would attempt to kidnap your children. Obviously someone was very misguided.

I don’t usually attribute EVIL to the actions of persons of the Mormon faith. I usually attribute things to misguided enthusiasm. But sometimes it’s hard to tell.

I’m sorry this happened to you and I hope your family is not permanently scarred by the event. I will pray for you.

The “short” answer to your question of “why” is that the perpetrators sincerely thought they were doing the right thing.

It might be smart to MOVE away from such persons.

Oh, I moved from there years ago.

As for the Mormons involved, I know they were misguided…but when all of this was reported and even after they knew that the local DA had asked me to press attempted kidnapping charges, but I refused. I was, by then, afraid of retribution. I knew all about the blood oaths. Even after all of that, the local Bishop did nothing.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Yes, one of the males involved got the message…it was quite the drama. My son was almost 3 and my daughter was two months old

I am so sorry this happened to your family. I will pray that your children will not be scarred by this event.

How anyone could claim to be serving God and also terrorizing children at the same time is truly beyond me. The persons that did this to your family are EVIL, no matter how they might attempt to justify their actions. There is NO EXCUSE for that. And although I haven’t asked Him, I suspect Jesus would agree with me!

I’m so sorry SirThomas. I’m so very sorry.

 

[SirThomasMore]

I am so sorry this happened to your family. I will pray that your children will not be scarred by this event.

How anyone could claim to be serving God and also terrorizing children at the same time is truly beyond me. The persons that did this to your family are EVIL, no matter how they might attempt to justify their actions. There is NO EXCUSE for that. And although I haven’t asked Him, I suspect Jesus would agree with me!

I’m so sorry SirThomas. I’m so very sorry.

Its ok. All of this happened 21 years ago. I have forgiven.

But I have never forgotten

 

[MelanieAnne]

Oh, I moved from there years ago.

As for the Mormons involved, I know they were misguided…but when all of this was reported and even after they knew that the local DA had asked me to press attempted kidnapping charges, but I refused. I was, by then, afraid of retribution. I knew all about the blood oaths. Even after all of that, the local Bishop did nothing.

SirThomas, I’m sure it won’t make you feel any better, but I am going to tell you my story. Perhaps you may not feel so alone, I don’t know. I just hope you will understand.

My local Mormon Bishop and, later, he became the Stake President (whose family was a friend of my family and whose children went to school with my children) was once upon a time a person who I contacted because of serious sin by his brother. This “brother” was, at the time I contacted my friend, a member of the Stake where his brother was Stake President.

This brother lied about an evil he was responsible for, and a member of my family was affected. Because of my close relationship with so many people within the Stake, I took the question to the Stake President. He declined to become involved, even though he confessed to me that he knew, and he confessed to me that he knew, that his brother was lying. He basically took the position of “I don’t want to get involved”.

What this taught me is that, within the Mormon church, truth is not truth if it is to the detriment of some member, or at least some member related to the Stake President. What that taught me is that there is corruption throughout the Mormon church. How high it goes, I have no idea. The corruption I personally witnessed was enough for me to know that it was serious enough that I would never want to be personally associated with such a faith.

It’s not a faith, in my opinion, it’s a club. A club where “who you know” is the most important thing because apparently if your brother is Stake President, you can lie, cheat & steal and it doesn’t matter.

 

[SirThomasMore]

SirThomas, I’m sure it won’t make you feel any better, but I am going to tell you my story. Perhaps you may not feel so alone, I don’t know. I just hope you will understand.

My local Mormon Bishop and, later, he became the Stake President (whose family was a friend of my family and whose children went to school with my children) was once upon a time a person who I contacted because of serious sin by his brother. This “brother” was, at the time I contacted my friend, a member of the Stake where his brother was Stake President.

This brother lied about an evil he was responsible for, and a member of my family was affected. Because of my close relationship with so many people within the Stake, I took the question to the Stake President. He declined to become involved, even though he confessed to me that he knew, and he confessed to me that he knew, that his brother was lying. He basically took the position of “I don’t want to get involved”.

What this taught me is that, within the Mormon church, truth is not truth if it is to the detriment of some member, or at least some member related to the Stake President. What that taught me is that there is corruption throughout the Mormon church. How high it goes, I have no idea. The corruption I personally witnessed was enough for me to know that it was serious enough that I would never want to be personally associated with such a faith.

It’s not a faith, in my opinion, it’s a club. A club where “who you know” is the most important thing because apparently if your brother is Stake President, you can lie, cheat & steal and it doesn’t matter.

Thank you for sharing. Someday, I will tell the complete story of what happened to me.

I agree about the club. It helps if you are related in some way to the first gen LDS. To be an Apostle, you must be wealthy, for the most part. Funny how Jesus called the poorest among us, and the LDS Church calls the richest.

I am glad you found your way to TRUTH

 

[MelanieAnne]

Thank you for sharing. Someday, I will tell the complete story of what happened to me.

I agree about the club. It helps if you are related in some way to the first gen LDS. To be an Apostle, you must be wealthy, for the most part. Funny how Jesus called the poorest among us, and the LDS Church calls the richest.

I am glad you found your way to TRUTH

The Mormon Stake President I told you about is a descendant of a Mormon Pioneer. So that makes sense to me. Yes, I have experienced, first hand, what it is like for someone to be part of the Mormon “aristocracy” and how, as such, some can be excused of things that others would not be. So the lies of a descendant if a Pioneer can apparently be forgiven, especially if they have been perpetrated against someone, such as my family, who is not in their “club”. WHATEVER. It’s disgusting but identifying it as such is not going to change anything, at least not in this world.

I call it “corruption at the highest levels” but I have other reasons for saying that, including rape I know about that was actually sanctioned by the First Presidency. Another story far more horrifying than anything my family experienced. Suffice it to say, none of us will ever be part of their “club”.

From my vantage point, that of an “outsider looking in”, it always seemed to me that there was an “in” crowd in the Mormon church. It’s interesting that you would identify the “in” crowd as either first generation or “rich”. It’s hard to understand how Jesus would support such a notion.

Thankfully, my family was never part of that group, in regards to faith, despite many efforts, by many people. I have had very sincere and devout Mormon friends for over 40 years. Even today I count among my dearest friends some very faithful Mormons. I have helped out some of those friends in their activities in my local area (the local “stake”) and I am sure they hoped my efforts would result in some sort of permanent change in me. It didn’t. And, the more I learn about Mormonism, the more sure I am about that.

Thank you for sharing your story and God Bless.

Sign me a Happy Catholic!

 

[SirThomasMore]

I truly enjoy your posts…

 

[Returning_Home]

The bottom line, for me, is OUR CHURCH WAS FOUNDED BY JESUS CHRIST and that church has stood up to everything thrown against it for 2000 years. Since we are not “apostate”, the Mormon theory of “apostasy” (never clearly defined anyway) does not apply.

On this point, I’ll disagree just a tad; the alleged apostacy that Mormonism claims to have happened is indeed clearly defined. They say that immediately after the Apostles died, there was a world-wide renouncement of God that was finally corrected (“restored”) by Joseph Smith.

This apostacy, of course, is an utter fabrication and the laying of a foundation on which they base their own claims of authority. Since the Bible is supposed to be missing many ‘plain and precious things,’ it has to be propped up by the BOM and can only be interpreted by their own organization, which conveniently never gives a ‘correct’ version.

Even with the Catholic church murdering people during the Inquisition, they still believed in God Almighty. The Crusades were fought in the name of God, too.

Modern LDS claim that all faiths have pieces of the Gospel, but that they are the only ones with the true and correct interpretation. All of the Biblical verses they cite as support for their claims, however, are taken out of context or deliberately misinterpreted.

 

[Answersplease]

that dodged my question. I did not ask about leading here or there. I asked a very specific question. I will ask it again.

So, according to what the Spirit told me, the LDS Church is NOT true and the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus started and has directed from Peter to Benedict.

The Holy Spirit does not lie, right?

I also know you by your works as demonstrated by the spirit that emanates from your writing style. By all that is right and holy, I pray that you are doing the will of God Almighty in the rest of your life.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1095283&postcount=4

Guidelines
For both Catholic and non-Catholic posters:

It is never acceptable to question the sincerity of an individual’s beliefs

 

[Answersplease]

that dodged my question. I did not ask about leading here or there. I asked a very specific question. I will ask it again.

So, according to what the Spirit told me, the LDS Church is NOT true and the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus started and has directed from Peter to Benedict.

The Holy Spirit does not lie, right?

I also know you by your works as demonstrated by the spirit that emanates from your writing style. By all that is right and holy, I pray that you are doing the will of God Almighty in the rest of your life.

Answersplease:

That is one of the politest ways I’ve ever heard of calling another CAF poster OF A DIFFERENT SPIRIT THAN THAT OF GOD.

And no. I did’nt report you.

I’ll let others do that if they so wish.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1095283&postcount=4

Guidelines
For both Catholic and non-Catholic posters:

It is never acceptable to question the sincerity of an individual’s beliefs

 

[Answersplease]

I also know you by your works as demonstrated by the spirit that emanates from your writing style. By all that is right and holy, I pray that you are doing the will of God Almighty in the rest of your life.

Answersplease:

Sorry, I changed my mind and reported you.

 

[Javl]

From reading the preceding posts by SirThomasMore and MelanieAnne I see a very close resemblance between Mormonism and Islam. Both use threats and violence to keep the “believers” in line.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[MelanieAnne]

On this point, I’ll disagree just a tad; the alleged apostacy that Mormonism claims to have happened is indeed clearly defined. They say that immediately after the Apostles died, there was a world-wide renouncement of God that was finally corrected (“restored”) by Joseph Smith.

This apostacy, of course, is an utter fabrication and the laying of a foundation on which they base their own claims of authority. Since the Bible is supposed to be missing many ‘plain and precious things,’ it has to be propped up by the BOM and can only be interpreted by their own organization, which conveniently never gives a ‘correct’ version.

Even with the Catholic church murdering people during the Inquisition, they still believed in God Almighty. The Crusades were fought in the name of God, too.

Modern LDS claim that all faiths have pieces of the Gospel, but that they are the only ones with the true and correct interpretation. All of the Biblical verses they cite as support for their claims, however, are taken out of context or deliberately misinterpreted.

Hi,

I’m glad you’re returning home!

As for my statement that the Mormons can seldom define the so-called “Great Apostasy”, that’s just based on my experience on these boards. It’s like calling the IRS and asking a tax question ~ you get a different answer every time. And there’s never a shred of evidence to support it.

It stretches credulity when one person after another gives yet a different account of the “Great Apostasy” and yet no one can provide a scintilla of evidence to support their position.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Hi,

I’m glad you’re returning home!

As for my statement that the Mormons can seldom define the so-called “Great Apostasy”, that’s just based on my experience on these boards. It’s like calling the IRS and asking a tax question ~ you get a different answer every time. And there’s never a shred of evidence to support it.

It stretches credulity when one person after another gives yet a different account of the “Great Apostasy” and yet no one can provide a scintilla of evidence to support their position.

I agree. I have heard answers ranging from 100 AD to 1000 AD.

If I was going to make a claim a claim of some grand event, I would have a date it happened. To claim an event happened with no set date is like presenting a history of a people with no set place. Oh wait…they did that, too.

 

[lax16]

I agree. I have heard answers ranging from 100 AD to 1000 AD.

If I was going to make a claim a claim of some grand event, I would have a date it happened. To claim an event happened with no set date is like presenting a history of a people with no set place. Oh wait…they did that, too.

Regarding the Great Apostasy -

When I asked our visiting missionaries when it happened, they shrugged their shoulders, looked at each other and said…“I don’t know, maybe about 200 AD”

Then on another day when I pushed further they said…“when the last apostle died.”

That is what the literature says that was left by the missionaries.

I have read some LDS posters say it was gradual (certainly conflicts with "when the last apostle died) and even had one say it never totally happened.

Oh, then there was one poster who said it happened because of Constantine…

 

[SirThomasMore]

I have heard that during the Apostasy, Christ took the authority away from the earth and took the Priesthood from the earth.

That seems odd since the LDS believe that St. John never died and still walks the earth.

It also seems odd because the :LDS believe that the Three Nephites never died and still walk the earth.

If John was here then the Priesthood was here- No apostasy. If John lost his Priesthood, then how could he help confer it on Joseph?

Too many of these problems in the LDS Church