Another Question for LDS

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MelanieAnne said:
Well, you’re entirely correct in your conclusion. 🙂

But to address some points of your post ~

Numerous persons have posted to this forum about their experience of being “shunned” after they left the Mormon Church. Is it official policy? Maybe not, at least not in the sense of something being written down, but then why would such a thing happen to so many people over a widely scattered geographical area such as the entire United States and even beyond? Are we to conclude that ALL their so-called “friends” were not friends at all but were merely posing as friends and THAT’S why they deserted them after they left the church? Really? That’s more credible?

Specifically regarding WhyMe ~ he continues to claim to be both Mormon and Catholic, a state of faith that cannot exist without betraying 2 faiths. I cannot find it within me to respect that position. I would respect someone more if they adopted one or another, but not both.

But if you ask WhyMe if he has talked about his situation with either his Catholic priest or his Mormon bishop, he won’t answer you. I’ve tried. I decided a long time ago to view WhyMe as a Mormon apologist who was once Catholic and has adopted this Mormon/Catholic pose as a means to proselytize on this board and stay “under the radar” of the moderators. Everyone has to make their own assessment. This was mine, and then I put him on ignore because, in my opinion, I could not learn anything useful from dialog from a person who would portray themselves this way.
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My cousin sent in her resignation letter earlier this year.

Not long after that was done with, we were at a store together, and saw a couple of her church mates. The ladies made direct eye contact, and turned around and went the other direction. Intentional? More than likely, but we chalked it up to them feeling awkward with the situation since it was so recent.

Just a few weeks ago, we went out to lunch together at a popular resturaunt. Several of her mormon friends work there. 2 of them happened to be working that day. The hostess sat us in one of her mormon friends sections, which was fine.

Here is the funny part. Another server came to our table to take care of us. We mentioned that we thought we were in Miss X’s section. Our new server said, “You are, but she asked me to switch tables with her.” Coincidence? I think not.

Those are 2 examples that I witnessed personally. My cousin has gone on to say how many of her former mormon church friends will no longer return her calls or emails.

She has no reason to make any of that up, and she just laughs it off. She tells me that they are probably scared of losing their “recommends” if they associate with an apostate.
In fact, isn’t that one of the recommend questions? Asking if you associate with “apostates”?

The thing is, they don’t want to mess with her too much, she is the Postmaster (if you know what I mean :p)
 
why_me said:
You need to learn about the mormon faith. In the mormon faith, hell is rather empty. People generally go to one of the three kingdoms. Now if one does deny the holy ghost, well, that is a serious sin. But again it all depends on how much knowledge that person has.
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I actually know about Mormon faith. I was mormon and what the missionaries called a “golden child,” but God led me back to his true church.

Your reply to SirThomasMore was that “In mormon belief Hell is rather empty so I doubt a mormon would say that you are going to hell.”

It seems to me that you are calling STM a liar because you do not believe that a Mormon would say he will go to hell.

And my arguement is that you state that the Mormon’s definition of hell is different. However, you have Moroni, clearly state that “these must have gone to an endless hell” and “he must go down to hell.” He doesn’t state you will go to the lowest of the three kingdoms, he says “hell.”

Also according to 2 Nephi 9 10-12 Hell doesn’t seem to empty.

10 O how great the goodness of our God, who prepareth a way for our escape from the grasp of this awful monster; yea, that monster, death and dhell, which I call the death of the body, and also the death of the spirit.
11 And because of the way of deliverance of our God, the Holy One of Israel, this death, of which I have spoken, which is the temporal, shall deliver up its dead; which death is the grave.
12 And this death of which I have spoken, which is the spiritual death, shall deliver up its dead; which spiritual death is hell; wherefore, death and hell must deliver up their dead, and hell must deliver up its captive spirits, and the grave must deliver up its captive bodies, and the bodies and the spirits of men will be restored one to the other; and it is by the power of the resurrection of the Holy One of Israel.
 
twopekinguys said:
My cousin sent in her resignation letter earlier this year.

Not long after that was done with, we were at a store together, and saw a couple of her church mates. The ladies made direct eye contact, and turned around and went the other direction. Intentional? More than likely, but we chalked it up to them feeling awkward with the situation since it was so recent.

Just a few weeks ago, we went out to lunch together at a popular resturaunt. Several of her mormon friends work there. 2 of them happened to be working that day. The hostess sat us in one of her mormon friends sections, which was fine.

Here is the funny part. Another server came to our table to take care of us. We mentioned that we thought we were in Miss X’s section. Our new server said, “You are, but she asked me to switch tables with her.” Coincidence? I think not.

Those are 2 examples that I witnessed personally. My cousin has gone on to say how many of her former mormon church friends will no longer return her calls or emails.

She has no reason to make any of that up, and she just laughs it off. She tells me that they are probably scared of losing their “recommends” if they associate with an apostate.
In fact, isn’t that one of the recommend questions? Asking if you associate with “apostates”?

The thing is, they don’t want to mess with her too much, she is the Postmaster (if you know what I mean :p)
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Well, I don’t know what you mean by “Postmaster” but I totally understand the rest.

Having said that, I worked with lots of Mormons in connection with their theatrical productions and when I see them around town (which is actually rare) they are always nice to me. Perhaps they’re still hoping to recruit me, but I don’t know.

But those who have joined the church, and then left it, have been shunned, from what I have seen from a variety of sources including first hand experience. And there have been numerous reports of that on this forum as well.

I’d still be curious to know if it was official policy to shun those who have left the church (I’d think they’d try to get them back, but what do I know?) and I had never thought to ask if association with apostates was a “temple recommend question”, so I’d add that to the inquiry. What is the official policy? And if actual practice differs, why is that allowed?
 
why_me said:
I have no idea. I have seen no news reports of mormons throwing rocks at people’s houses. I must have missed it. Nor do I know of any mormons who throw rocks at people’s houses. What I do see is that when someone leaves the faith, they leave. No problem at all. No one bothers and I really don’t think that anyone cares. And I also know, that if someone doesn’t want a hometeacher the hometeacher no longer bothers with that person.

Life is too stressful to be bothered. That is my obversation.
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You misunderstood - the rocks were thrown at people. And yes, they were.
I will go into details if someone wants to pm me, otherwise, I’ll leave it at that.

The eggs are at the house, not people.

Unfortunately, things like that don’t make the news in Utah but maybe they should.

I’m confused, whyme, people are saying that you are both Catholic and Mormon and yet you know about hometeachers and your daughter is on a mission???

Life is stressful. However, if I ever heard of Catholics throwing rocks and eggs because of religion, I would get myself bothered about it.
 
MelanieAnne said:
I’d still be curious to know if it was official policy to shun those who have left the church (I’d think they’d try to get them back, but what do I know?) and I had never thought to ask if association with apostates was a “temple recommend question”, so I’d add that to the inquiry. What is the official policy? And if actual practice differs, why is that allowed?
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Good luck with finding this part out. As far as I can find out, there are questions for the temple recommend that ask if they associate with apostates. I am assuming that if they do, they won’t get a recommend

My cousin works for the Postal Service, and is the Postmaster of her community (In charge of that particular post office)
 
Here is one version:

Some represent conventional Christian ethics. Others are real eyebrow raisers:

  1. *]Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?
    *]Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?
    *]Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?
    *]Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?
    *]Do you live the law of chastity?
    *]Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?
    *]Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
    *]Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?
    *]Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?
    *]Are you a full-tithe payer? Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?
    *]Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?
    *]If you have previously received your temple endowment: Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
    *]Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?
    *]Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord’s house and participate in temple ordinances?
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  1. Remember, the individual must answer all these in the affirmative in order to fully participate in the CoJCoLDS. Of course, the individual or the bishop can re-define the terms in order to suit his own perspective. This really gets inside the jello.
 
Jerusha said:
Here is one version:

Some represent conventional Christian ethics. Others are real eyebrow raisers:

Remember, the individual must answer all these in the affirmative in order to fully participate in the CoJCoLDS. Of course, the individual or the bishop can re-define the terms in order to suit his own perspective. This really gets inside the jello.
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I see nothing wrong with such questions. I also think that the catholic church has questions for its members to ask themselves before they go to confession:

ewtn.com/library/Prayer/examconscience.htm

Any real eyebrow raisers? Isn’t it amazing just how similiar the catholic and mormon churches are! One has questions for getting a temple recommend and the other has questions to examine one’s conscience. 🙂
 
Jerusha said:
Here is one version:

Some represent conventional Christian ethics. Others are real eyebrow raisers:

Remember, the individual must answer all these in the affirmative in order to fully participate in the CoJCoLDS. Of course, the individual or the bishop can re-define the terms in order to suit his own perspective. This really gets inside the jello.
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If they answer “no” what happens?
Do they re-take the test later?
Also, what if someone in the ward or neighborhood knew that the person being interviewed did one or more of these things, do they tell the Bishop or keep it to themselves?
 
lax16 said:
You misunderstood - the rocks were thrown at people. And yes, they were.
I will go into details if someone wants to pm me, otherwise, I’ll leave it at that.

The eggs are at the house, not people.

Unfortunately, things like that don’t make the news in Utah but maybe they should.
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So, mormons are throwing rocks at people who leave the church? Really? But I still haven’t heard of any news reports about such incidents. I would think that the national news would pick up on it. Mormons throwing rocks at people. And of course, if a rock hit the person in the head and is killed…would murder charges be in order?

Sorry, I just don’t see it happening.
 
MelanieAnne said:
Well, you’re entirely correct in your conclusion. 🙂

But to address some points of your post ~

Numerous persons have posted to this forum about their experience of being “shunned” after they left the Mormon Church. Is it official policy? Maybe not, at least not in the sense of something being written down, but then why would such a thing happen to so many people over a widely scattered geographical area such as the entire United States and even beyond? Are we to conclude that ALL their so-called “friends” were not friends at all but were merely posing as friends and THAT’S why they deserted them after they left the church? Really? That’s more credible?

Specifically regarding WhyMe ~ he continues to claim to be both Mormon and Catholic, a state of faith that cannot exist without betraying 2 faiths. I cannot find it within me to respect that position. I would respect someone more if they adopted one or another, but not both.

But if you ask WhyMe if he has talked about his situation with either his Catholic priest or his Mormon bishop, he won’t answer you. I’ve tried. I decided a long time ago to view WhyMe as a Mormon apologist who was once Catholic and has adopted this Mormon/Catholic pose as a means to proselytize on this board and stay “under the radar” of the moderators. Everyone has to make their own assessment. This was mine, and then I put him on ignore because, in my opinion, I could not learn anything useful from dialog from a person who would portray themselves this way.
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I don’t believe its official policy of the LDS Church to go after people who leave. I do believe there is a certain amount of animosity directed towards members who choose to leave Mormonism.

“Are we to conclude that ALL their so-called “friends” were not friends at all but were merely posing as friends and THAT’S why they deserted them after they left the church?”
I’m not sure if I totally understand this question. I don’t think I ever made this claim, “All their so called friends deserted them…”

I find it an interesting behavior that even though there is nothing written down as to how to treat one who leaves the LDS Faith, there is a very distinct commonality in how Ex-Mormons are treated on the way out.

I found a good portion of my Family wanted nothing to do with me once I left the LDS faith. I found some of my close friends wanted nothing to do with me once I left the Church. So I can assume from those actions they were indeed only interested in me as a Brother, Son and Friend because I was Mormon.

I also think the way in which Mormons view their faith. They believe they are the ONLY true and living Church in the world today. All other Religions are an Apostate form and cannot deliver Salvation. It’s an Us vs. Them mentality. They take the Stand they have something to prove and when you walk away from it maybe they take hard because they couldn’t convince you.

Who knows. As for Whyme- I agree totally in your observation of him/her. One cannot serve Two masters. I had him on ignore before. I took him off now I am reminded why I put him on there to begin with. I don’t gain anything from his insight.
Mel- God Bless and be with you!
I always enjoy what you have to offer in your posts and I always learn something from what you have to say even if I don’t always participate in a thread or discussion I read through the ones that interest me. You always have something enlightening to say.
 
why_me said:
I see nothing wrong with such questions. I also think that the catholic church has questions for its members to ask themselves before they go to confession:

ewtn.com/library/Prayer/examconscience.htm

Any real eyebrow raisers? Isn’t it amazing just how similiar the catholic and mormon churches are! One has questions for getting a temple recommend and the other has questions to examine one’s conscience. 🙂
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One big difference why me - It is not mandatory and nobody checks up on you.

But as a Catholic, you should know that, right? Not too many Catholics are familiar with examination of conscience these days, it is not taught much anymore.

Besides, it is done in private. Between the person and God only.

Not similar at all.
 
If they answer no, they are not fully members of the church, because they can’t go to the Temple. If they answer yes, they can change those things in their life, and later get the temple ticket. Records of contributions to the church are kept, and compared to income. Everyone is expected to snitch to the bishop.
 
why_me said:
I see nothing wrong with such questions. I also think that the catholic church has questions for its members to ask themselves before they go to confession:
ewtn.com/library/Prayer/examconscience.htm

Any real eyebrow raisers? Isn’t it amazing just how similiar the catholic and mormon churches are! One has questions for getting a temple recommend and the other has questions to examine one’s conscience. 🙂
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In case you ar wondering, those are the ten commandments.😉
 
why_me said:
So, mormons are throwing rocks at people who leave the church? Really? But I still haven’t heard of any news reports about such incidents. I would think that the national news would pick up on it. Mormons throwing rocks at people. And of course, if a rock hit the person in the head and is killed…would murder charges be in order?

Sorry, I just don’t see it happening.
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whyme - I am not going to go into details here. I already said if somebody wanted details to pm me.
 
lax16 said:
One big difference why me - It is not mandatory and nobody checks up on you.

But as a Catholic, you should know that, right? Not too many Catholics are familiar with examination of conscience these days, it is not taught much anymore.

Besides, it is done in private. Between the person and God only.

Not similar at all.
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It really doesn’t matter lax.It is apart of catholicism. But it is true that many catholics don’t know about it now. And also things have changed. When I was a boy if I didn’t go to confession I could not take the eucharist. Now that has changed. But there are still devout catholics that believe in the examination of conscience. Opus Dei is one example. Mormons have their religious culture. And catholics have theirs. What is lacking on this forum is respect for the other. And with that…is the lack of charity. If catholics were like the catholics on the mormon threads, I would say that it would be a severe indictment against the catholic faith. Fortunately, that isn’t so.

To listen to the mormon apostates on this forum, one would think that mormons are evil rock throwers, shunners and follow a liar adn a sex maniac. With rousing support from the never mormon catholics.
 
lax16 said:
If they answer “no” what happens?
Do they re-take the test later?
Also, what if someone in the ward or neighborhood knew that the person being interviewed did one or more of these things, do they tell the Bishop or keep it to themselves?
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This is not a test, but it is a process of involved in penance and repentance. Some memberes take advantage of it very well and repent fully. Others not so much. Complete repentance is difficult for people. Though we all know who cleansing repentance is, some of us choose to carry the burden of sin rather than let it go and enjoy the Grace and mercy God provides us.

Curious, when a Catholic goes to Confession, is it viewed as a test? Can a Catholic lie during Confession? If he/she does, what happens?

These questions are asked of those seeking a temple recommend. A recommend is needed to enter any LDS temple. The Recommend is used for a two-year period and then the individual would need to go through the same interview again prior to entering a temple. If you are not interested in going to the temple, then a recommend is never needed or asked for.

A temple interview can be asked at any time. If someone should answer no to any of the questions, the Bishop doing the interview would attempt to understand why and determine if repentance is needed.

I am not aware of any organized reporting by one’s neighbors or other ward members on the actions or choices of other members. That would be highly irregular. These kinds of things may come up in an interview with other members of the family IF the actions of one were affecting the lives of the other. I am addressing specifically the actions of spouses with or toward one another.

If in an interview someone answered yes to a question and thus covering up sins, etc., unless specifically directed by the Spirit, the Bishop would issue the recommend. If individuals choose to lie, they can do it easily; obviously the objective is to be truthful in all our dealings.

A second “interview” is needed to ratify a temple recommend. A member must also speak with a member of the Stake Presidency. However, in this interview the question is limited to, “Did the member of the Bishopric that interviewed you ask you all of the questions?” and “Is there anything that we need to talk about” or something similar. If the member answer positive, then the recommend is signed and the member may enter any LDS temple worldwide.
 
lax16 said:
whyme - I am not going to go into details here. I already said if somebody wanted details to pm me.
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Lax, it really doesn’t matter. Mormons are not rock throwers. Now can people go astray or crazy…I suppose so. But no where is the mormon ward organizing rock throwers. First, the rock throwers would get arrested. Second, if they hit someone with a rock, they would get a massive lawsuit. It is nonsensical to throw rocks or eggs. And it is certainly not organized. And the mormon apostates know this.

And quite frankly it wouldn’t be worth it. What would be the point?
 
why_me said:
Lax, it really doesn’t matter. Mormons are not rock throwers. Now can people go astray or crazy…I suppose so. But no where is the mormon ward organizing rock throwers. First, the rock throwers would get arrested. Second, if they hit someone with a rock, they would get a massive lawsuit. It is nonsensical to throw rocks or eggs. And it is certainly not organized. And the mormon apostates know this.

And quite frankly it wouldn’t be worth it. What would be the point?
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I never said it was organized. I said it happened.
 
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