Another Question for LDS

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DCNBILL said:
In case you ar wondering, those are the ten commandments.šŸ˜‰
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Ten Commandments? What was the explanations of the commandments provided after each commandment?

Examination of Conscience

I. ā€œI am the Lord, thy God, thou shalt not have strange gods before Me.ā€

Have I sinned against Religion by seriously believing in New Age, Scientology, Astrology, Horoscopes, Fortune-telling, Superstition or engaging in the Occult? Did I endanger my Catholic Faith or cause scandal by associating with anti-Catholic groups & associations (e.g., the Freemasons)? Have fame, fortune, money, career, pleasure, etc. replaced God as my highest priority? Have I neglected my daily prayers?

Curious, do you see any simiarity in the above and any of the questions asked by a LDS Bishop cited above? #7 read: Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? This is the same as that mentioned above where it asked about sinning againist the Religion.

How many other similarities do you see?
 
Jerusha said:
Here is one version:

Some represent conventional Christian ethics. Others are real eyebrow raisers:
  1. Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?
  2. Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?
  3. Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?
  4. Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?
  5. Do you live the law of chastity?
  6. Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?
  7. Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
  8. Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?
  9. Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?
  10. Are you a full-tithe payer? Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?
  11. Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?
  12. If you have previously received your temple endowment: Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
  13. Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?
  14. Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lordā€™s house and participate in temple ordinances?
Remember, the individual must answer all these in the affirmative in order to fully participate in the CoJCoLDS. Of course, the individual or the bishop can re-define the terms in order to suit his own perspective. This really gets inside the jello.
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I have personal knowledge of a situation where a person was raped by a man, a ā€œtemple recommend holderā€, and the situation was ultimately brought up to the First Presidency, who declined to become involved.

The Mormon hierarchy decided to not get involved in what they viewed as a ā€œhe said/she saidā€ situation. But you would think that SOMEONE might have at least looked beyond that, tried to determine who was telling the truth? But no one did. They were both Mormons.

I talked to the woman who was raped, I held her hand, I saw her tears. It would be very hard to describe this woman as ā€œfaking itā€ when describing what happened to her. Somehow I doubt her temple-recommend-holding rapist experienced any sort of similar emotional pain. And, interestingly, he was never denied a recommend.

By their inaction, in my opinion, the First Presidency sanctioned the rape. I canā€™t support an organization, no matter how pious they may claim to be, that supports rape.
 
barnesms said:
This is not a test, but it is a process of involved in penance and repentance. Some memberes take advantage of it very well and repent fully. Others not so much. Complete repentance is difficult for people. Though we all know who cleansing repentance is, some of us choose to carry the burden of sin rather than let it go and enjoy the Grace and mercy God provides us.

Curious, when a Catholic goes to Confession, is it viewed as a test? Can a Catholic lie during Confession? If he/she does, what happens?

These questions are asked of those seeking a temple recommend. A recommend is needed to enter any LDS temple. The Recommend is used for a two-year period and then the individual would need to go through the same interview again prior to entering a temple. If you are not interested in going to the temple, then a recommend is never needed or asked for.

A temple interview can be asked at any time. If someone should answer no to any of the questions, the Bishop doing the interview would attempt to understand why and determine if repentance is needed.

I am not aware of any organized reporting by oneā€™s neighbors or other ward members on the actions or choices of other members. That would be highly irregular. These kinds of things may come up in an interview with other members of the family IF the actions of one were affecting the lives of the other. I am addressing specifically the actions of spouses with or toward one another.

If in an interview someone answered yes to a question and thus covering up sins, etc., unless specifically directed by the Spirit, the Bishop would issue the recommend. If individuals choose to lie, they can do it easily; obviously the objective is to be truthful in all our dealings.

A second ā€œinterviewā€ is needed to ratify a temple recommend. A member must also speak with a member of the Stake Presidency. However, in this interview the question is limited to, ā€œDid the member of the Bishopric that interviewed you ask you all of the questions?ā€ and ā€œIs there anything that we need to talk aboutā€ or something similar. If the member answer positive, then the recommend is signed and the member may enter any LDS temple worldwide.
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Thanks barnes. I guess the word test was not the correct word to use. Thanks for clarifying!
 
Jerusha said:
If they answer no, they are not fully members of the church, because they canā€™t go to the Temple. If they answer yes, they can change those things in their life, and later get the temple ticket. Records of contributions to the church are kept, and compared to income. Everyone is expected to snitch to the bishop.
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This is strange; where do you get such ideas.

LDS view the temple as the House of the Lord. The objective is to keep it as holy as possible. It is impossible to verify holiness of people. If they lie, they go to the temple. If they tell the truth, they go to the temple. If they donā€™t keep a temple recommend, they may still partake of the Sacrament, still give talks in Church, still offer prayers in Church, still be Sunday School teachers, etc.

There is no way for the Church to compare contributions to income. Do you have ANY references for such an outlandish statements. In the USA the only entity that has that confidential information is the Federal Government and your employer. No one else can access it. Anti-Mormonism is one thing, but stupidity is really too much. Stop it!

A member has the ability to meet with their Bishop at the end of each year. It is called Tithing Settlement. The meeting consists of reviewing oneā€™s contributions during the year: Tithing, fast offerings for the poor, etc. The Bishop will ask if you are a full tithe payer, which you confirm or deny. I have only attended a few tithing settlements throughout my life. I have never once been questioned by the Bishop or any other member about not going. It is strictly voluntary.

Snitching to the Bishop is a flat out lie. You know it and you repeat it. Why? What spirit motivates you to lie on this forum? Do you think that lying is what apologetics is or something else? Serious questions, please answer them.
 
why_me said:
It really doesnā€™t matter lax.It is apart of catholicism. But it is true that many catholics donā€™t know about it now. And also things have changed. When I was a boy if I didnā€™t go to confession I could not take the eucharist. Now that has changed. But there are still devout catholics that believe in the examination of conscience. Opus Dei is one example. Mormons have their religious culture. And catholics have theirs. What is lacking on this forum is respect for the other. And with thatā€¦is the lack of charity. If catholics were like the catholics on the mormon threads, I would say that it would be a severe indictment against the catholic faith. Fortunately, that isnā€™t so.

To listen to the mormon apostates on this forum, one would think that mormons are evil rock throwers, shunners and follow a liar adn a sex maniac. With rousing support from the never mormon catholics.
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Yes it does matter. Nothing I say or donā€™t say is going to keep me from going to church, the Cathedral, my kids weddings, baptisms, Confirmationā€¦

When and where did you grow up that you had to attend weekly confession to receive Communion?

I am very familiar with Opus Dei as well. I am not sure the connection to what we are saying?

It is not mandatory and nobody checks up on you. I decide if I am in a state of grace not the priest.

The reality is, many people have had negative experiences with Mormons. And to tell people that they are lying or exaggerating is part of it too. You know, blame the victim.
 
why_me said:
Really? Mormons use threats of violence to keep their members in line? This is news to me. Do you have any proof? I donā€™t think so.
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Have you read the posts by SirThomasMore and MelanieAnne? I truly believe what they have said. That should be proof enough.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom haMeshisch
 
barnesms said:
This is strange; where do you get such ideas.

LDS view the temple as the House of the Lord. The objective is to keep it as holy as possible. It is impossible to verify holiness of people. If they lie, they go to the temple. If they tell the truth, they go to the temple. If they donā€™t keep a temple recommend, they may still partake of the Sacrament, still give talks in Church, still offer prayers in Church, still be Sunday School teachers, etc.

There is no way for the Church to compare contributions to income. Do you have ANY references for such an outlandish statements. In the USA the only entity that has that confidential information is the Federal Government and your employer. No one else can access it. Anti-Mormonism is one thing, but stupidity is really too much. Stop it!

A member has the ability to meet with their Bishop at the end of each year. It is called Tithing Settlement. The meeting consists of reviewing oneā€™s contributions during the year: Tithing, fast offerings for the poor, etc. The Bishop will ask if you are a full tithe payer, which you confirm or deny. I have only attended a few tithing settlements throughout my life. I have never once been questioned by the Bishop or any other member about not going. It is strictly voluntary.

Snitching to the Bishop is a flat out lie. You know it and you repeat it. Why? What spirit motivates you to lie on this forum? Do you think that lying is what apologetics is or something else? Serious questions, please answer them.
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I thought LDS had to provide their tax return info to the church to verify income?
 
You are right. The tithing settlement is a separate meeting. However, if you think that they are totally independent of each other, you are deceived.

According to reports, snitching to the bishop is encouraged in some places, and not a significant issue in others. Sorry for my exaggeration.
 
MelanieAnne said:
I have personal knowledge of a situation where a person was raped by a man, a ā€œtemple recommend holderā€, and the situation was ultimately brought up to the First Presidency, who declined to become involved.

The Mormon hierarchy decided to not get involved in what they viewed as a ā€œhe said/she saidā€ situation. But you would think that SOMEONE might have at least looked beyond that, tried to determine who was telling the truth? But no one did. They were both Mormons.

I talked to the woman who was raped, I held her hand, I saw her tears. It would be very hard to describe this woman as ā€œfaking itā€ when describing what happened to her. Somehow I doubt her temple-recommend-holding rapist experienced any sort of similar emotional pain. And, interestingly, he was never denied a recommend.

By their inaction, in my opinion, the First Presidency sanctioned the rape. I canā€™t support an organization, no matter how pious they may claim to be, that supports rape.
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I am glad that you are clearly offended by a leadership that ignores sexual offenses. Do you have any references that others might review that verify this situation? I am definitely not denying it, but I honestly would like to study the case.

When I have read the newpapers, listened to EWTN, and read magazines over the past thirty years, there has been a consistent story of sexual abuse within the Catholic Church, the cover-up by Popes, Cardinals, Arch-Bishops, Bishops, and priests. You have just stated, ā€œI canā€™t support an organization,no matter how pious they may claim to be, that supports rape.ā€ Do you still support the Catholic Church? I would probably recommend, based upon your strict sense of morality, that you look to the Eastern Orthodox Church. You may find higher sense of morality you are seeking. Let us know about your journey.
 
Jerusha said:
You are right. The tithing settlement is a separate meeting. However, if you think that they are totally independent of each other, you are deceived.

According to reports, snitching to the bishop is encouraged in some places, and not a significant issue in others. Sorry for my exaggeration.
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Where is it encouraged? Are there any newspapers articles or any other independent references to support this statement?
 
With your permission, perhaps I could post a query on that subject at ex-Mormon.org, and see how many reports that would attract. If you would be willing to read them there.
 
lax16 said:
I thought LDS had to provide their tax return info to the church to verify income?
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No, never is that requested or done. I have been a full tithe payer all my life. As I have stated, I generally do not go to tithing settlement with the Bishop. I go maybe every three years. Never have financial records been requested for me personally or for my businesses. Lax, where does this come from? This really is completely foreign in LDS culture and religious life. No is able to verify the income of anyone and there is only one person who pays tithing on your behalfā€¦you. You either are or are not a full tithe payer. You will find different standards of paying tithe. Some do it on their total annual income. Some pay on the net. Some pay only on the increase. The Church states that tithing (10%) should be paid on your increase. If you say you are a full tithe payer, you are. The Bishop takes your word for it.
 
barnesms said:
No, never is that requested or done. I have been a full tithe payer all my life. As I have stated, I generally do not go to tithing settlement with the Bishop. I go maybe every three years. Never have financial records been requested for me personally or for my businesses. Lax, where does this come from? This really is completely foreign in LDS culture and religious life. No is able to verify the income of anyone and there is only one person who pays tithing on your behalfā€¦you. You either are or are not a full tithe payer. You will find different standards of paying tithe. Some do it on their total annual income. Some pay on the net. Some pay only on the increase. The Church states that tithing (10%) should be paid on your increase. If you say you are a full tithe payer, you are. The Bishop takes your word for it.
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barnes - It came from a friend. I will ask him to verify what I heard him say.
 
Javl said:
Have you read the posts by SirThomasMore and MelanieAnne? I truly believe what they have said. That should be proof enough.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom haMeshisch
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And I have moreā€¦ Corruption by the Stake President for example.
 
paulp1002 said:
Lax, I guess according to WhyMe we can say that the Mormon Missionaries that where mocking a Catholic statue, while holding the statues head and taking pictures, werenā€™t Mormon either huh or maybe because it didnā€™t happen šŸ˜‰

usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-10-colo-vandalism_N.htm

On a side note, I take it from your username you play lacrosse?
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Is this a question or mockery of LDS? As the article stated, the actions of these 20 year old men is inexcusable. The mission leader stated why it stings so muchā€¦because LDS know so well these types of actions. They have been the focal point of persecution for their entire history. To mock any religion, Christian or not, is abhorrent.

I would also point out that LDS missionaries have been arrested in Europe and Asia for disrespecting religious statues. One I recall is where two missionaries in Europe sat down in front of a statue in the town square and drank from open bottles. It was considered an offensive and they paid the price for their ignorance and disrespect. In Asia I remember hearing about two missionaries that took pictures of one another climbing on top of a Buddha and sitting in the hands.

I also remember two missionaries thinking it rather odd that the baby Jesus was missing from the crĆØche scenes in France. Not until I explained that it is traditional not to put the Baby Jesus out until Christmas Eve was it understood. It was not Catholic ignorance or Catholic forgetfulness; it was the lack of cultural understanding.
 
lax16 said:
barnes - It came from a friend. I will ask him to verify what I heard him say.
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Lax, Iā€™ve never heard of this sort of verification either, and thatā€™s over 40 years of interaction with Mormons.

I suspect itā€™s like anything else ~ you yourself attest to your situation. If you fail to be completely honest, its your problem and you bear the consequences.

To me itā€™s not all that different from the Sacrament of Reconciliation ~ if I fail to disclose a mortal sin, if I KNOWINGLY do that, will I be absolved of that sin? No

If I receive the Eucharist when I KNOW I am NOT in a state of grace, does the sacrament operate for me as it usually would? No.

In both cases, I made the decision, and the consequences are mine.

Similarly, I assume that if a Mormon attests that they have paid a full tithe when they have not, the consequences will be theirs.
 
lax16 said:
barnes - It came from a friend. I will ask him to verify what I heard him say.
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Please do so. IF a bishop is doing that, he would be corrected quickly and strongly. That type of action would be highly irregular.

Bishops do have a lot of leeway in shepherding their flock, but that action would attract an immediate correction if it was discovered. Bishops have a training seminar monthly throughout the church. It is true that due to the independence they enjoy as Bishops, odd things can happen, but they generally are quickly corrected when discovered.
 
MelanieAnne said:
Lax, Iā€™ve never heard of this sort of verification either, and thatā€™s over 40 years of interaction with Mormons.

I suspect itā€™s like anything else ~ you yourself attest to your situation. If you fail to be completely honest, its your problem and you bear the consequences.

To me itā€™s not all that different from the Sacrament of Reconciliation ~ if I fail to disclose a mortal sin, if I KNOWINGLY do that, will I be absolved of that sin? No

If I receive the Eucharist when I KNOW I am NOT in a state of grace, does the sacrament operate for me as it usually would? No.

In both cases, I made the decision, and the consequences are mine.

Similarly, I assume that if a Mormon attests that they have paid a full tithe when they have not, the consequences will be theirs.
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I have only twenty years experience!
Anyway I stated it as a question not a statement of fact. I will verify it like I said.
 
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