Another Question for LDS

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barnesms said:
Please do so. IF a bishop is doing that, he would be corrected quickly and strongly. That type of action would be highly irregular.

Bishops do have a lot of leeway in shepherding their flock, but that action would attract an immediate correction if it was discovered. Bishops have a training seminar monthly throughout the church. It is true that due to the independence they enjoy as Bishops, odd things can happen, but they generally are quickly corrected when discovered.
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I will ask for my own information, but I would never point it out to anyone else.
thanks!
 
MelanieAnne said:
And I have more… Corruption by the Stake President for example.
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Just to be clear, I do not testify of the perfection of leaders. I know too many stories where members, bishops, stake presidents, and even general authorities have been found in a state of immorality. These leaders are generally, quickly excommunicated as part of their penance process.

As we each review the Christian world, we find these examples in all churches. The lesson I take from this is that none are perfect; none are beyond falling to the temptations of Satan, and we all need to be on our guard to defend against the traps that Satan sets for us.
 
To tell on someone who is not living up to the standard is contextual, but does happen. I know for a fact that when I was a student living in Provo UT, any students living in BYU approved housing had to live by the code of conduct that was the temple recommend questions, plus much more that was specific to the housing situation. Ie, the opposite sex was not allowed anywhere but the living room, kitchen and bathroom and one could not be alone with the opposite sex either. Al students were required to keep these rules, PLUS to inform the bishop or other authorities if someone else was breaking these rules. If they were and you knew but did not tell, you could loose your apt and possibly get kicked out of school as well. So the context may be more specific, but there definitely is a “tell on you” policy in some areas.
 
barnesms said:
Is this a question or mockery of LDS? As the article stated, the actions of these 20 year old men is inexcusable. The mission leader stated why it stings so much…because LDS know so well these types of actions. They have been the focal point of persecution for their entire history. To mock any religion, Christian or not, is abhorrent.

I would also point out that LDS missionaries have been arrested in Europe and Asia for disrespecting religious statues. One I recall is where two missionaries in Europe sat down in front of a statue in the town square and drank from open bottles. It was considered an offensive and they paid the price for their ignorance and disrespect. In Asia I remember hearing about two missionaries that took pictures of one another climbing on top of a Buddha and sitting in the hands.

I also remember two missionaries thinking it rather odd that the baby Jesus was missing from the crèche scenes in France. Not until I explained that it is traditional not to put the Baby Jesus out until Christmas Eve was it understood. It was not Catholic ignorance or Catholic forgetfulness; it was the lack of cultural understanding.
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Barnesms, let me first clarify myself by saying that I know that the majority of Mormon members are extrememly good people. And of course there are the bad apples, just like with any religion.

The reason for this post was because unlike you, WhyMe doesn’t seem to believe that there are Mormons that are “bad apples.”

SirThomasMore, stated that a Mormon told him he was going to Hell when he resigned and WhyMe stated that Mormons wouldn’t say that.

Lax16 stated that rocks were threwn at people, and WhyMe said that wouldn’t happen. When Lax clearly stated it did.
 
SirThomasMore said:
Mormons always tell us that IF we pray, and IF we ask with a sincere heart, the Spirit will lead us to the LDS Church. If it doesn;t, then either we did not really pray, or we did not have the a sincere heart.

Now, I was LDS, I prayed with a very sincere heart on my knees till they ached…and God led me out of the LDS Church.

Later, after years of searching for where God wanted me, God, thru his Spirit, led me to the Catholic Church.

Later, when I had a pull to go back to the LDs Church, I attend Sac meetings, I read books, I watched GC, I met with missionaries, and I read the B of M. I WANTED the LDS Church to be true. I prayed very very sincerely. God, thru the Holy Spirit, told me the LDS Church was NOT the true Church and to stay in the Catholic Church.

Now. Here is my question. So, according to what the Spirit told me, the LDS Church is NOT true and the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus started and has directed from Peter to Benedict.

The Holy Spirit does not lie, right?
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It is your word against the words of millions of Mormons who testify to the opposite. I guess what that means is that everyone must discover the truth for himself. But if we just went by the law of probabilities, then I would say the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of Mormons and against you.
 
SirThomasMore said:
So, the Holy Spirit confirmed to me that LDS Church was false, not once, but twice. You claim the Holy Spirit confirmed in you that the LDS was True. So, the Holy Spirit must be lying to one of us. Right?
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Right! Or one of you must be lying, or have been deceived.
 
This is where I think faith alone is not enough (as wonderful as it is). When there is a conflict like this, we must look at facts-at history. God created history too, after all.

I’ll let you guys debate which Church is the real one. I know this a rather thorny subject. 👍

But I think the answer lies in the objective exam of the history of Christianity.
 
zerinus said:
It is your word against the words of millions of Mormons who testify to the opposite. I guess what that means is that everyone must discover the truth for himself. But if we just went by the law of probabilities, then I would say the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of Mormons and against you.
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Ah, so it is a numbers game to you? There are a billion Catholics. So, if we just went with the law of probablities, then I would say the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of Catholics and against you and the Mormons.
 
zerinus said:
Right! Or one of you must be lying, or have been deceived.
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Well, that is certainly one way to look at it. And since I know I am not lying, and I know I was not deceived, I am comfortable in the Truth
 
SirThomasMore said:
Yes…when I left the Church, I was shunned. I was also harrassed. I was told I was going to hell for THE sin against the Spirit. I got phone calls at all hours. Finally, some Mormons tried to kidnap my children. It was an ugly scene with a Mormon ,ending up in the hospital and police involved.

Ok, I’ll bite…why?
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These are just your words, with no evidence to support it. Why should I believe it? You are obviously against Mormonism, so you could be making it all up. How would anyone know? I don’t believe a word of it that any Mormon would want to kidnap anybody’s kids to “save their souls”. That is pure fabrication.
 
SirThomasMore said:
Well, that is certainly one way to look at it. And since I know I am not lying, and I know I was not deceived, I am comfortable in the Truth
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Sir Thomas, you are not answering questions, but dodging. Why? You would not allow anything but a final decision. Is the Holy Spirit lying? If not who is? Please just answer and then let’s talk about how you dealt with my answer on this forum. This will be instructive for all of us. Do not deflect, do not twist, just answer the question.
 
SirThomasMore said:
Ah, so it is a numbers game to you? There are a billion Catholics. So, if we just went with the law of probablities, then I would say the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of Catholics and against you and the Mormons.
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Receiving testimonies and bearing testimonies is not part of the Catholic tradition. The Catholic Church does not tell people to read the Bible or the Catechism, pray about it, and accept it if the Holy Ghost tells you it is true. That is in the Mormon tradition, not the Catholic one.
 
paulp1002 said:
Barnesms, let me first clarify myself by saying that I know that the majority of Mormon members are extrememly good people. And of course there are the bad apples, just like with any religion.

The reason for this post was because unlike you, WhyMe doesn’t seem to believe that there are Mormons that are “bad apples.”

SirThomasMore, stated that a Mormon told him he was going to Hell when he resigned and WhyMe stated that Mormons wouldn’t say that.

Lax16 stated that rocks were threwn at people, and WhyMe said that wouldn’t happen. When Lax clearly stated it did.
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I would not be surprised that there are situations like this that occur in the LDS Church. A misguided LDS person telling another that their leaving the Church will cause them to go to Hell reveals a striking lack of understanding of the Gospel by the member making such a claim. Conversely, I am also not surprised that this situations happen just as often in the Catholic Church. Both Churches honestly believe they are the One, True Church. Some members get out there on the edge and make some strong claims that are not reflective of the position of the respective church or the truth.

I can vouch that there are those within the LDS Church that do not follow its teachings. But let us not focus on the exception in either church, but seek that which is uplifting and a more honest representation of Catholicism and the LDS Church.

If Why Me is denying the possibility, it is not acceptable to respond in kind. All of us are learning to follow Jesus Christ. We should all repent and try harder.
 
barnesms said:
Sir Thomas, you are not answering questions, but dodging. Why? You would not allow anything but a final decision. Is the Holy Spirit lying? If not who is? Please just answer and then let’s talk about how you dealt with my answer on this forum. This will be instructive for all of us. Do not deflect, do not twist, just answer the question.
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Well, let’s flip it around. Is the Holy Spirit lying to you? If not, who is?

My answer as to why I believe the Catholic Church is the Truth:

The Catholic Church is over 2000 years old. It started off with a great many witnesses, who talked and followed God Himself Incarnate. All of them belonged to the Catholic Church.

I don’t know when the Mormon Church started, but it is not 2000 years old. It has one witness, Joseph Smith. Furthermore, the Mormon Church was founded when the original Catholic Church founded by Jesus was still around.

I believe the Catholic Church.
 
SirThomasMore said:
I have heard that during the Apostasy, Christ took the authority away from the earth and took the Priesthood from the earth.

That seems odd since the LDS believe that St. John never died and still walks the earth.

It also seems odd because the :LDS believe that the Three Nephites never died and still walk the earth.

If John was here then the Priesthood was here- No apostasy. If John lost his Priesthood, then how could he help confer it on Joseph?

Too many of these problems in the LDS Church
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Those are your problems, not the LDS Church’s problems. The Church has perfectly valid answers to all of thos questions.
 
Fair enough.
  1. How can Mormons believe that Christ took the Priesthood from the Earth if they believe St. John and the Three Nephites never died and is still walking the Earth? Do they believe that?
  2. If John was here then the Priesthood was here and there was no apostasy. If John did not have the Priesthood, then how could he have conferred it on Joseph Smith?
 
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