And there are polygamous today that still think that god condones polygamy. And I am not talking about the flds compound. There are independent groups in Utah who still practice polygamy because they think that man’s law should not overide god’s law.My ex-wife’s mom told us a story about how her grandparents moved from Utah to Mexico so they can still practice polygamy. If I remember correctly, they didn’t agree with the church changing their stance on polygamy just because the US Govt made them.
No, you misapply responsibility. Joseph Smith did not die for himself, but he died on behalf of his relationship with Jesus Christ. He was a martyr along with thousands of other LDS men that were killed by “good Christian men” that felt a holy war was justified because another people believed differently than they. Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God was embraced completely by Joseph Smith and for his faith he paid the ultimate price. This is not a new or unique story; Christianity has the unfortunate distinction of killing those who believe differently than they do whether they be fellow Christians or anyone else.I’ll take this opportunity to say that I in no way, shape, or form condone what was done to Mormons. It is wrong, no matter what someone’s faith is.
That said, the persecution rests squarely on the shoulders of one man, without who it would not have happened: Joseph Smith. It’s a shame that the early Mormons didn’t realize this, suffering for what they erroneously believed to be the truth.
Was Smith murdered? Yes he was and that was absolutely positively wrong. He, however, brought it on himself.
I have noticed this line of poor logic for a number of people. First, you are confusing Salvation with Exaltation or Theosis. One need only committ to pay a tithe to be baptized and confirmed. One must be willing to follow the commandments of God to partake of the Sacrament or Eucharist as you say. These ordinances offer Salvation to all. However, if one seeks to be emulate Christ in fullness, we seek all holiness. We not only committ, but we do. We are not just willing, but we obey.My parish actually takes 10% tithe, however they don’t require it from every person to secure their salvation, they take 10% from the total offerings of the parish.
Which I believe is the better way to go. If someone is strugglng financially, they don’t have to worry about their salvation because they can’t afford the 10% tithe of the income, instead they can give what they can afford. God is not greedy.
So you have no references and are now just making stuff up, okay.Unless the guy is a super stud, he will certainly get tired. Not to mention the attempt to make several women sexually happy. And we need to remember that the men were not always young. As time moved on, and they got older, more problems develop with the body. Most men will understand where I am coming from. Back then, there was no viagra. And the ability to keep all the wives happy, well, that is also stressful and stress can kill the libido.
No one said that they are. What we do see is a parallel teaching that is more emphasized in Eastern Orthodoxy than in Roman Catholicism (I have seen this said by Eastern Christians a number of times), for whatever reason.Please don’t confuse the mormon teaching of exaltation with theosis. They are not the same thing.
Doesn’t matter, they are not the same thing. Not parallel either. Mormons have something other going on.No one said that they are. What we do see is a parallel teaching that is more emphasized in Eastern Orthodoxy than in Roman Catholicism (I have seen this said by Eastern Christians a number of times), for whatever reason.
Also Purgatory and Spirit Prison are not the same thing, something else I see frequently.Doesn’t matter, they are not the same thing. Not parallel either. Mormons have something other going on.
Still waiting for WHYME to answer this…does he follow every single one of the more than 600 commands in the OT?The OT has over 600 commandments. Are you telling me that you comply with every single one?
I hope you do. Cuz, The OT testament commands you to do them
I did not write the Bible…what to do?
wow…nice spinThe danites were organized to defend mormons after all the house burnings and murders commited by the mobs. You need to read the history of the danites in the lds church. Joseph Smith was not happy with them because of their excesses. However, without the persecutions the mormons experienced, there would be no danites.
Background
The Danites were a brotherhood of church members that formed in Far West, Missouri in mid-1838. By this point in time, the Saints had experienced serious persecution, having been driven out of Kirtland by apostates, and driven out of Jackson County by mobs. Sidney Rigdon was publicly preaching that the Saints would not tolerate any more persecution, and that both apostates and mobs would be put on notice. The Danite organization took root within this highly charged and defensive environment.
The Danites are sometimes confused with the “Armies of Israel,” which was the official defensive organization that was tasked with defending the Saints. This is complicated by the fact that members of the Danite organization also served in the “Armies of Israel.”
en.fairmormon.org/Danites
Notice how the apostates drove the saints out of kirkland. It is usually the apostates that become the greatest enemy of the lds church. It is hard for them to reconcile their apostacy. Not much as changed since that time. But not all apostates becomes enemies. But that few that do, attempt to sow trouble for the lds.
And again, no one claimed that exaltation and theosis were the same thing (if they did, please demonstrate that). And they most certainly are parallel teachings. They are not the same thing however (which no LDS claimed).Doesn’t matter, they are not the same thing. Not parallel either. Mormons have something other going on.
Can you please demonstrate that a LDS has claimed that Purgatory and Spirit Prison are the “same thing”? This certainly would be odd, when we do not believe that there is temporal punishment for sins forgiven that must be purged in the afterlife.Also Purgatory and Spirit Prison are not the same thing, something else I see frequently.
Perhaps you should explain how you are using the word “parallel”.And again, no one claimed that exaltation and theosis were the same thing (if they did, please demonstrate that). And they most certainly are parallel teachings. They are not the same thing however (which no LDS claimed).
Not quite. I think we’ve already established that we believe that, through a combination of historical evidence and faith, we all believe here that Jesus is the Messiah and the son of God, which Jews do not. Since I believe the Catholic Church to be the one established by Jesus then yes, I do believe that it still being around is a good enough “arguement” to believe it. Unlike you guys, I see no reason at all to believe that the Church underwent any sort of “Great Apostasy”.What you are saying basically is that the Catholic Church must be right because it is there. Well, if that is a valid argument, then the Jews can make an even stronger case for their religion than you can, because they have “been there” much longer. They have a much longer ecclesiastical history and tradition. If that is a valid argument, then why don’t you give up Catholicism and become a Jew? A Jew can bring exactly the same argument against Catholicism that you are bringing against Mormonism. Who is to say that you are right and they are wrong?
I can understand receiving blessings for paying a tithe. I know it says so in Malachi if you pay tithing you receive blessings, more than you could ever receive. What I don’t understand is the LDS view that you can not make the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom if you don’t pay a full tithe. Where in the Bible does it say tithing is a requirement for Exaltation?My parish actually takes 10% tithe, however they don’t require it from every person to secure their salvation, they take 10% from the total offerings of the parish.
Which I believe is the better way to go. If someone is strugglng financially, they don’t have to worry about their salvation because they can’t afford the 10% tithe of the income, instead they can give what they can afford. God is not greedy.
Of course I am not saying that they are “identical” since I have already stated that they are not the “same thing” (and that no LDS has said that they are the “same thing”/“identical”). They are similar, readily comparable. They use the same Biblical verses for support, they use similar terminology (“becoming gods”). They clearly differ on specifics (nature of man, what is required to be exalted/deified, what happens in the afterlife, etc).Perhaps you should explain how you are using the word “parallel”.
“something identical or similar in essential respects” is my understanding.
Then LDS should stop making the comparison, using terms such as “exaltation or theosis”, as though they are the same thing.Of course I am not saying that they are “identical” since I have already stated that they are not the “same thing” (and that no LDS has said that they are the “same thing”/“identical”). They are similar, readily comparable. They use the same Biblical verses for support, they use similar terminology (“becoming gods”). They clearly differ on specifics (nature of man, what is required to be exalted/deified, what happens in the afterlife, etc).
And again, they are clearly not the same thing, and no one has said otherwise.
Theosis is the result of Salvation. They are not two separate things.The “or” doesn’t apply. In other words, there is not such thing as Salvation or Theosis. It is always, Salvation is Theosis.I have noticed this line of poor logic for a number of people. First, you are confusing Salvation with Exaltation or Theosis.
Where has Jesus ever said that becoming “partakers of the divine nature” is separate from salvation? Rebecca I guarantee that the Mormons can’t show us this from the Biblical record. They also can’t show where the “Godhead” divides itself up among the various Kingdoms of Heaven. We believe that the Father’s house has many mansions as well, however there is no Biblical evidence (let alone in the patristic record) that people in some of these mansions won’t be able to live in the presence of the Father or the Son. Odd.Then LDS should stop making the comparison, using terms such as “exaltation or theosis”, as though they are the same thing.
Theosis is the result of Salvation. They are not two separate things.The “or” doesn’t apply. In other words, there is not such thing as Salvation or Theosis. It is always, Salvation is Theosis.