Another Question for LDS

[SirThomasMore]

Of course, returning home, can we also claim that the great majority of catholics don’t know the facts about their faith? And should it be up to ‘anticatholics’ to educate them? Mormons go to sunday school. Do catholics go to sunday school after Mass? My parish has no sunday school.

However, let me educate you: often on this forum I hear about the goodness of mormons and how nice they are as a people. This comes from their faith in god and in being members of the lds church. The two are connected. Isn’t it amazing that such goodness can come from something that is a ‘sham’ and its ‘ugly’ truth?

Hmmmm…so that is the standard? If something nice comes from it it must be true? Most Atheists I know are very nice. hmmmm

I have said all along that some people can be led away by drugs and alcohol, etc, but some need more…they need something that appears good. As Christ said, the wolf in sheep’s clothing.

The LDS Church is the wolf in sheep’s clothing

 

[why_me]

Yep, I thought I remembered that thread.

When people resort to that sort of behavior, it deflects from the real topic at hand. You get all worked up about their bizarre analogies, and end up ignoring what the conversation is really about. It is a tactic I see repeated over and over.

Some posters will use this tactic to goad you into saying something they can then report, hoping to get you in trouble.

I just laugh it off because it is so predictable. But then again, the ignore feature for those posters works quite well also.

When enough people get that person(s) on ignore, and they aren’t getting the reactions they want, they will end up registering another screen name, and start it all over again. Fortunately, their posting styles betray them.

I must say, it provides alot of entertainment at times.

What does all this have to do with the title of the thread? By the way, you seem to talk for two since there are two of you: one protestant and one catholic. Do you control the other person who can post under your screen name. And doe he support your decisions when you place someone on ignore?

You seem to be two people with one main voice. Or are you just one person claiming to be two. Both of you have a very similiar voice when posting.

 

[why_me]

Hmmmm…so that is the standard? If something nice comes from it it must be true? Most Atheists I know are very nice. hmmmm

I have said all along that some people can be led away by drugs and alcohol, etc, but some need more…they need something that appears good. As Christ said, the wolf in sheep’s clothing.

The LDS Church is the wolf in sheep’s clothing

So nice and good can come from something ugly and evil as catholics stated the mormon church is?

I don’t consider atheism evil or ugly so I do think that good can come from it. But for some catholics, the mormon church is ugly and evil…and yet, the people are for the most part…good. Amazing.

So mormons are for you, wolves in sheep’s clothing. Thank you tom for your charity. You are a good catholic.

 

[SirThomasMore]

So nice and good can come from something ugly and evil as catholics stated the mormon church is? Apparently

I don’t consider atheism evil or ugly so I do think that good can come from it. But for some catholics, the mormon church is ugly and evil…and yet, the people are for the most part…good. Amazing. People can be good and still follow a false prophet And it is not so amazing. According to what I have read, most of the people who followed James Jones were very good and nice people

So mormons are for you, wolves in sheep’s clothing. Thank you tom for your charity. You are a good catholic.

I am sorry you got something in your eyes. Thank you for the compliment. Christ has told us to proclaim the truth, so Catholics proclaim the truth. You seem to think that is bad. Then you must really dislike Christ. He was clear that He was not on earth to make friends, but actually to set people against each other in His proclaiming of the truth. I am honored that you have put me in the same catagory as Christ. Not something I deserve, but I am nonetheless honored.

 

[RebeccaJ]

“Jesus says the way to hell is broad and many find it and that the way to heaven is narrow and few find it. And he means it: you don’t get to heaven simply by being born, by being nice, or by oozing into an eternal growth experience.” (Peter Kreeft)

 

[dianaiad]

She probably doesn’t know that the Mormon Jesus allowed Ted Bundy to join even with the blood of at least five women on his hands.

Ted Bundy joined the LDS church quite awhile before he went on his killing spree. He ended up by converting to Hinduism. Gary Bishop was also LDS…and excommunicated for being a child molester long before he killed. Butch Cassidy was a Mormon, too…and so is Jason Derek Brown, who is on the FBI’S most wanted list…for murder and armed robbery. Shoot, he’s even a returned missionary.

However, let not into a good slam admit any facts.

By the way, Hitler was a Catholic. So were the Machiavellis and the Borgias.

…but I don’t think any less of Catholicism as a result, or blame Catholicism for them. You can’t blame the religion for the actions of those who break its rules.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Ted Bundy joined the LDS church quite awhile before he went on his killing spree. He ended up by converting to Hinduism. Gary Bishop was also LDS…and excommunicated for being a child molester long before he killed. Butch Cassidy was a Mormon, too…and so is Jason Derek Brown, who is on the FBI’S most wanted list…for murder and armed robbery. Shoot, he’s even a returned missionary.

However, let not into a good slam admit any facts.

By the way, Hitler was a Catholic. So were the Machiavellis and the Borgias.

…but I don’t think any less of Catholicism, or blame Catholicism for them.

Hitler being a Catholic is a complete and total myth. Here are some of Hitler’s quotes about Christianity in general. He wasn’t even Christian. The quotes are from the book “Hitler’s Secret Conversations”.:

All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:
National Socialism and religion cannot exist together… The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity… Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:
Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:
The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death… When understanding of the universe has become widespread… Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity… Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity… And that’s why someday its structure will collapse… …the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little… Christianity [is] the liar… We’ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:
The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:
Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer… The decisive falsification of Jesus’ doctrine was the work of St. Paul. He gave himself to this work… for the purposes of personal exploitation… Didn’t the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it’s in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St. Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:
Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery… [here he insults people who believe transubstantiation] … When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let’s be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday:
Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don’t believe the thing’s possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself… Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:
There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:
It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity… My regret will have been that I couldn’t… behold its demise." (p 278).

 

[Marc_Anthony]

As the article I got this from says:

"The allegation is sometimes made that Hitler was a Catholic - a Christian until the day he died. This claim is based upon the fact that Hitler was born and raised in a Catholic family.

However, as an adult, Hitler specifically rejected the Catholic Church, as well as Christianity in general. He described himself as “a complete pagan”."

davidmacd.com/catholic/was_hitler_a_catholic.htm

 

[RebeccaJ]

The usual…Ted Bundy was a active serial killer from 1973 to 1978. He was baptized August 1975 (I can’t find the exact date.) He was arrested in UT on Aug. 15, 1975 and convicted of kidnapping on March 1, 1976.

The LDS people baptized him again, posthumously.

 

[dianaiad]

As the article I got this from says:

"The allegation is sometimes made that Hitler was a Catholic - a Christian until the day he died. This claim is based upon the fact that Hitler was born and raised in a Catholic family.

However, as an adult, Hitler specifically rejected the Catholic Church, as well as Christianity in general. He described himself as “a complete pagan”."

davidmacd.com/catholic/was_hitler_a_catholic.htm

You guys can’t have this both ways.

Hitler was born Catholic. He was baptised CAtholic. He was raised Catholic. How many times have I been told by people on this forum that ‘once a Catholic, always a Catholic,’ and that a Catholic baptism leaves an 'indelible mark upon the soul?"

Yes, I believe that he was excommunicated, but…as I remember from a very contentious set of threads a little while ago, that doesn’t mean to Catholicism what it means to Mormonism. When WE excommunicate someone, they are—no longer LDS. If they want to come back and become LDS again, they must be rebaptized.

An excommunicated Catholic, however, doesn’t need to be rebaptized. He simply needs to repent, go to confession and have that excommunication lifted. He remains Catholic always, in that his baptism remains in effect. As I have been told over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over and over and over again, his disavowal of the religion does not remove the fact that he WAS baptized.

By referring to Hitler being Catholic, I was making a specific point; Catholicism wasn’t responsible for Hitler’s acts—as I wrote, you can’t blame the belief system for the actions of those who break the rules. Hitler was a Catholic—and the entire point of my post was that he was not a GOOD one–and attempting to discredit the LDS church by pointing out that Ted Bundy was LDS at one time is EXACTLY like mentioning that Hitler was Catholic, and so what?

If actions that show one’s disrespect for the tenets of the faith that one is formally associated with mean that you are no longer a member of that faith, then…Ted Bundy et all weren’t Mormons, either. As I said, you can’t have this both ways.

'course, if it makes you feel any better, Hitler CAN be a Mormon, too, if he wants–though I rather think that this is the very last thing he wants.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Hitler SPECIFICALLY REJECTED Christianity and never acted upon the grace given to him at baptism. The Vatican actually attempted a long distance excorcism on him, though they said they knew it probably wouldn’t work because of the distance but was worth a try.

 

[dianaiad]

Hitler SPECIFICALLY REJECTED Christianity and never acted upon the grace given to him at baptism. The Vatican actually attempted a long distance excorcism on him, though they said they knew it probably wouldn’t work because of the distance but was worth a try.

…isn’t an excorcism done to drive the devil out of someone, in order to save the soul of the one posessed? If that is so, then doing an excorcism on Hitler would be an admission that they thought his soul was worth trying to save, wouldn’t you think?

(grin)

It is funny to see the outrage and the gasping denials regarding Hitler. I see that his name is the perfect name with which to make my point!

After all, as much as Ted Bundy hits the gag buttons, I’m not denying that the man was, at one time, LDS. It’s a fact. He broke every rule we have–he broke every rule that any major religion or decent human group has–and he definitely wasn’t a GOOD Mormon. Not only that, but we kicked the man out, and when WE kick someone out, they are good and kicked out. He ended his life as a Hindu, and I’m quite certain that Hindus are not thrilled with that idea, either.

Here’s the thing; yes, Hitler was baptised Catholic and raised Catholic. He broke every tenet of Catholicism he could. He was a ****** Catholic. Catholics are not to blame for Hitler. He is a fabulous example of everything a Catholic should NOT be, and what all of them strive hard not to be.

Nevertheless, he was baptised, and thus remained, Catholic–no matter what he himself later said.

And Ted Bundy was, at one time, Mormon. His membership in our church means, to and about Mormonism, exactly what Hitler’s being a Catholic means to and about Catholicism; not a single blessed thing, except that neither one was a good example of either belief system.

 

[Mike2010]

You can’t blame the religion for the actions of those who break its rules.

I agree with you on this account.

People try to proclaim the Catholic Church is false because of the sins of individuals. Though many of these sins are great, that doesn’t prove the Catholic Church is wrong. Many of Christ’s disciples sinned against Him, but Christ did not leave them - just as He says in the Bible that He will not leave His Church - the Catholic Church

 

[dianaiad]

I agree with you on this account.

People try to proclaim the Catholic Church is false because of the sins of individuals. Though many of these sins are great, that doesn’t prove the Catholic Church is wrong. Many of Christ’s disciples sinned against Him, but Christ did not leave them - just as He says in the Bible that He will not leave His Church - the Catholic Church

Whew. Thank you, Mike. That’s exactly the point I was getting at. Well, the bit about sinning members not proving that the Catholic church is wrong, anyway. As you point out, even the apostles of Christ were not perfect. After all, if JUDAS didn’t prove Christianity wrong, then what could? Is there any action committed by any person more heinous than the one he committed?

I believe, of course, that Catholicism is wrong in many areas, but not because Catholics have sinned!

 

[SirThomasMore]

You guys can’t have this both ways.

Hitler was born Catholic. He was baptised CAtholic. He was raised Catholic. How many times have I been told by people on this forum that ‘once a Catholic, always a Catholic,’ and that a Catholic baptism leaves an 'indelible mark upon the soul?"

Yes, I believe that he was excommunicated, but…as I remember from a very contentious set of threads a little while ago, that doesn’t mean to Catholicism what it means to Mormonism. When WE excommunicate someone, they are—no longer LDS. If they want to come back and become LDS again, they must be rebaptized.

An excommunicated Catholic, however, doesn’t need to be rebaptized. He simply needs to repent, go to confession and have that excommunication lifted. He remains Catholic always, in that his baptism remains in effect. As I have been told over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over and over and over again, his disavowal of the religion does not remove the fact that he WAS baptized.

By referring to Hitler being Catholic, I was making a specific point; Catholicism wasn’t responsible for Hitler’s acts—as I wrote, you can’t blame the belief system for the actions of those who break the rules. Hitler was a Catholic—and the entire point of my post was that he was not a GOOD one–and attempting to discredit the LDS church by pointing out that Ted Bundy was LDS at one time is EXACTLY like mentioning that Hitler was Catholic, and so what?

If actions that show one’s disrespect for the tenets of the faith that one is formally associated with mean that you are no longer a member of that faith, then…Ted Bundy et all weren’t Mormons, either. As I said, you can’t have this both ways.

'course, if it makes you feel any better, Hitler CAN be a Mormon, too, if he wants–though I rather think that this is the very last thing he wants.

naaaa…as a Mormon, he can have all the wives he wants

 

[SirThomasMore]

…isn’t an excorcism done to drive the devil out of someone, in order to save the soul of the one posessed? If that is so, then doing an excorcism on Hitler would be an admission that they thought his soul was worth trying to save, wouldn’t you think?

(grin)

It is funny to see the outrage and the gasping denials regarding Hitler. I see that his name is the perfect name with which to make my point!

I saw no gasping or denials. I saw facts. I am truly sorry that facts bother you

After all, as much as Ted Bundy hits the gag buttons, I’m not denying that the man was, at one time, LDS.

Nor has anyone denied that Hitler was born Catholic.

It’s a fact. He broke every rule we have–he broke every rule that any major religion or decent human group has–and he definitely wasn’t a GOOD Mormon. Not only that, but we kicked the man out, and when WE kick someone out, they are good and kicked out. He ended his life as a Hindu, and I’m quite certain that Hindus are not thrilled with that idea, either.

Here’s the thing; yes, Hitler was baptised Catholic and raised Catholic. He broke every tenet of Catholicism he could. He was a ****** Catholic. Catholics are not to blame for Hitler. He is a fabulous example of everything a Catholic should NOT be, and what all of them strive hard not to be.

Nevertheless, he was baptised, and thus remained, Catholic–no matter what he himself later said.

And Ted Bundy was, at one time, Mormon. His membership in our church means, to and about Mormonism, exactly what Hitler’s being a Catholic means to and about Catholicism; not a single blessed thing, except that neither one was a good example of either belief system.

The difference is, Hitler vocally rejected the Catholic Church, Ted Bundy never rejected the LDS Church. The Catholic Church exd Hitler, The LDS Church baptized Bundy AFTER they knew what he was.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

"…isn’t an excorcism done to drive the devil out of someone, in order to save the soul of the one posessed? If that is so, then doing an excorcism on Hitler would be an admission that they thought his soul was worth trying to save, wouldn’t you think?

(grin)

It is funny to see the outrage and the gasping denials regarding Hitler. I see that his name is the perfect name with which to make my point!"

What are you talking about? The Church tries to save all souls. So yeah, if Hitler wasn’t possessed by the devil and remained a swell guy, we wouldn’t need to excorcise him. I concede the point: if things were different, they wouldn’t be the same.

They’re not “gasping denials” they’re quotes from Hitler himself specifically rejecting Christianity.

 

[MelanieAnne]

I’m trying to figure out why anyone would care what the religion of a mass murderer was, even that religious affiliation was merely an accident of said mass murderer’s culture/upbringing, unless it was brought up to antagonize others, no matter how much such a person might claim otherwise. Such claims are rather transparent.

 

[Mike2010]

You can’t blame the religion for the actions of those who break its rules.

I agree with you on this account.

People try to proclaim the Catholic Church is false because of the sins of individuals. Though many of these sins are great, that doesn’t prove the Catholic Church is wrong. Many of Christ’s disciples sinned against Him, but Christ did not leave them - just as He says in the Bible that He will not leave His Church - the Catholic Church

 

[Michael_Francis]

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***I am closing this discussion of the Mormon faith because of the failing charity of Catholic members.

Please be advised that CAF expects ALL members to post with rationality, civility, and charity, regardless of their religion, and there will be moderator intervention every time any of you fail in this standard.***
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