Another question on Jesus

[coolduude]

I first want to apologize for so many Jesus questions. They must be a pain

Well here’s my question:

I read that if Jesus was a liar, his motive would have been power. After all, if people think you’re God they’ll do whatever you say. However, the article continued and said that Jesus always moved away from power and chastised the ones in power. Furthermore, He reached out to the poor and weak, who had no power and no influence.

So this is where my question comes in. Even though He reached out to those without influence, without power, couldn’t He have actually gained power? For example, presidential candidates always reach out to the poor and make promises to them. In the same way, Jesus reached out to the poor and made promises. So if He reached out to enough of them, could He have ‘won the election’ and gotten the power he was after? Could He have convinced them He was God?

I apologize that this sounds blasphemous. That’s not what I’m going for really

Thanks for any help,
Coolduude

 

[Garyjohn2]

It’s true Jesus reached out to the poor and helpeless. However, he also dined with the powerful, like pharisees and tax collectors. Many of his followers were the destitute and sick, but some of them were more weathly too, like Joseph of Arimathea. I think he reached out to everyone. He had a special place in His heart for the poor and humble.

He wasn’t looking for political power though. I think he had power over people’s hearts, if they listened to him and let him in. He had power over demons, when he cast them out. He also had power over sickness, sin, and even death. This is spiritual power, because he was the Christ. He didn’t have to seek this power, because he already had it from the beginning.

But I would argue, no, he wasn’t looking for any “power” in the traditional sense of the word…no secular or worldly power. This is proved not by who he reached out to, but by what he said and did.

“My kingdom is not of this earth,” he said.

That’s my take. Hope it helps!

 

[Marc_Anthony]

He became so politically powerful that he was nailed to a piece of wood in front of hundreds or possibly thousands of screaming people who chose to condemn him over a common criminal. Yep, he was so powerful that his the only item that actually belonged to him, his coat, was stolen and gambled away by his executioners.

Yeah, he was a powerful dude all right. Except that, if he were really looking for earthly power, wouldn’t he try and look good in the eyes of those highly ranked politically instead of make them mad as he often did?

 

[Edward_H]

Jesus’s motive was only love. All of his actions, all of them, were designed to bring others closer to God.

If love, in some human/political sense, brought power, that was a mere by product of love.

And this is our guidepost for our life. We shouldn’t be trying to gain power for its own sake. We should be doing all things to bring others closer and closer to God.

Even our work. If we quietly gain competence and capabilities in our profession, our intent should be that by doing so others may be attracted to our work. They might see in us a spark of love. They should see true humility even behind human excellence. This will open up many opportunities for others to wonder about our motivations…are they merely natural or are they supernatural?

The Jews were perplexed about Jesus…why didn’t he show / seek power. All they saw was this new Love.

 

[TheQuestioner]

I first want to apologize for so many Jesus questions. They must be a pain

Well here’s my question:

I read that if Jesus was a liar, his motive would have been power. After all, if people think you’re God they’ll do whatever you say. However, the article continued and said that Jesus always moved away from power and chastised the ones in power. Furthermore, He reached out to the poor and weak, who had no power and no influence.

So this is where my question comes in. Even though He reached out to those without influence, without power, couldn’t He have actually gained power? For example, presidential candidates always reach out to the poor and make promises to them. In the same way, Jesus reached out to the poor and made promises. So if He reached out to enough of them, could He have ‘won the election’ and gotten the power he was after? Could He have convinced them He was God?

I apologize that this sounds blasphemous. That’s not what I’m going for really

Thanks for any help,
Coolduude

That explanation would assume that Jesus was moving toward His goal. But His behavior proved otherwise. At one point a whole army was ready to do Christ’s bidding, but He refused (cannot find the passage, anyone wanna help me out here?). Jesus could have easily escaped from the Garden or told Pilate that He was not a king, and would have walked away free. He could have made those crowds do anything but rebuked them. If He wanted power He could have taken advantage of the Temple. Instead He tore the place up and made an enemy out of everyone in Jerusalem. It would seem that if power was His goal, He was either an idiot who seriously needed Apostles to handle PR (Public Relations) or didn’t care for earthly power after all.

 

[theotikos]

Its interesting to note that scholars believe that Judas’ motive behind his betrayal of Jesus over thirty pieces of silver was to have Jesus start a political revolution but that was not Jesus’ intention at all. Jesus respected authority. Remember Jesus said “They brought the coin, and he asked them, “Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?” “Caesar’s,” they replied. Then Jesus said to them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.” And they were amazed at him.” They were amazed at him because in the historical societal context, Caesar made himself to be a god even deifying himself but here comes Jesus separating him from a True God and calling him a mere man who has authority in the political sense in collecting revenue for the state. This was a new notion to them. I do not believe Jesus wanted power or would have started a revolution even though he well could have. The reason lies that Jesus told his disciples that the temple would be destroyed and lifted up in three days. The disciples thought he meant the literal temple and that it was impossible but he actually meant his body. The temple of the Holy Spirit is our body. So in that respect Jesus’ incarnation was to bring salvation to man through the Cross. I am taking God’s word for it though I don’t understand. Through the incarnation he bridged the gap between fallen mankind and God, he is our Messiah, our Savior from the dualistic evil in nature. In mystical stories, there are accounts that after he died on the cross and between his resurrection he went to the place of limbo to free the “just.” So in essence people had to wait for centuries to go to heaven till Jesus’ act on the cross and it was self prophesying. Do you see where I’m getting at? It was already planned out before Jesus incarnated and it had nothing to do with politics because if it did, he could have started an insurrection.

 

[coolduude]

very good points everyone!

So here’s what I get out of it: Jesus could very well have had political power if He wanted. Instead, He turned against it.

But, is it at all plausible that Judas’ idea was true? Could Jesus really have wanted to cause a political revolution?

I know I must sound out of my mind right now; I apologize. I’m just trying to go through all the options…

 

[fhansen]

This very issue is addressed in Luke 4. When satan tempted Jesus in Luke 4:5, the temptation was real. IOW, Jesus had no doubt that He could gain and hold all worldly power, and yet this did not interest Him.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Don’t hold in your questions, cooldude! Keep 'em coming – there’s no need to be bothered and you’re not bothering us. The more you ask, the more you and others here can grow in their faith .

Jesus alienated everyone who had political power. If he was seeking political power, His strategy for gaining it was ridiculous, for the people that could have given Him the best help were the people He most opposed. The false Messiahs of the period sought, and gained, the support of the Pharisees, because they could be very politically useful.

John 6 records an instance where the people tried to make Jesus into a king by force, but Jesus fled from them. They chased Him and caught up with Him, but He then immediately got rid of the vast majority by teaching them the doctrine of the Eucharist, a teaching that would be very hard for Jews of His time to accept because the Law condemns eating flesh.

Jesus gave doctrines that were very hard for traditional Jews to stomach, and He made the political leaders of the Jews hostile to Him. If you were a political power seeker, you wouldn’t alienate your support base by teaching the doctrine of the Eucharist, or other such difficult and (from a political and Jewish standpoint) unnecessary doctrines. If you were after political power, you might claim to be the Messiah, the human leader the Jews were expecting. They weren’t expecting the doctrine of the Trinity – claiming to be God and alienating the Pharisees would be bad moves.

Jesus also forbade His disciples and the evil spirits from identifying Him as the Christ in public.

Jesus’ actions led His disciples to believe He was going to get Himself killed (John 11:16), but when His life was threatened, He forbade His disciples from fighting to defend Him (John 18). He repeatedly came to the point of dying in the Gospels, once getting nearly thrown off a cliff and at least once nearly stoned, and He never fought to defend Himself. Rather, His doctrines always contradicted violence. No one that is seeking power would be so unconcerned with his own safety. Also, Jesus never took any money. He was completely poor, traveling around with only the clothes on His back and telling His apostles to do likewise. Even though multitudes at times delighted in Him, He never would take any money from them, and He would not use any “power” He gained for His own benefit or protection. His actions always ran counter to His own interest, and when a crown was offered Him, He rejected it and then got rid of most of His supporters.

There are other sources that describe how Jesus was so anti-power better than I just have, but I hope this will help! God bless!

 

[coolduude]

More good points! Thank you!

Here’s another (crazy) question: could Jesus have done it for show? Could He have acted humble as a show, so people would believe Him? After all, He said ‘the last shall be first and the first shall be last’. So if people applied that to Him, since He was humble, He would be exalted. Could that be what happened? See what I mean?

 

[fhansen]

More good points! Thank you!

Here’s another (crazy) question: could Jesus have done it for show? Could He have acted humble as a show, so people would believe Him? After all, He said ‘the last shall be first and the first shall be last’. So if people applied that to Him, since He was humble, He would be exalted. Could that be what happened? See what I mean?

Sure, and He faked humility all the way to the cross.

 

[thistle]

More good points! Thank you!

Here’s another (crazy) question: could Jesus have done it for show? Could He have acted humble as a show, so people would believe Him? After all, He said ‘the last shall be first and the first shall be last’. So if people applied that to Him, since He was humble, He would be exalted. Could that be what happened? See what I mean?

Are you really a Catholic?? Not even a Protestant, never mind a Catholic, would ask a question like that! It sounds like you know nothing about Christ so how did you become a Catholic? Did you sleep through your catechism classes?

 

[puzzleannie]

I first want to apologize for so many Jesus questions. They must be a pain

Well here’s my question:

I read that if Jesus was a liar, his motive would have been power. After all, if people think you’re God they’ll do whatever you say. However, the article continued and said that Jesus always moved away from power and chastised the ones in power. Furthermore, He reached out to the poor and weak, who had no power and no influence.

So this is where my question comes in. Even though He reached out to those without influence, without power, couldn’t He have actually gained power? For example, presidential candidates always reach out to the poor and make promises to them. In the same way, Jesus reached out to the poor and made promises. So if He reached out to enough of them, could He have ‘won the election’ and gotten the power he was after? Could He have convinced them He was God?

I apologize that this sounds blasphemous. That’s not what I’m going for really

Thanks for any help,
Coolduude

go back and read the beginning of the gospels where Jesus is tempted, and recall that Satan tempted him with temporal power. Yes Jesus made promises to the poor but his promises were not of earthly wealth and equality but of eternal rewards, and for rich and poor alike the price of those rewards is taking up one’s personal cross daily and following Christ in his sacrifice to attain glory with him. Read again also the account of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, where people acclaimed him king in the line of David, and turned on him days later and condemned him.

 

[coolduude]

Are you really a Catholic?? Not even a Protestant, never mind a Catholic, would ask a question like that! It sounds like you know nothing about Christ so how did you become a Catholic? Did you sleep through your catechism classes?

For your information, I’m a cradle Catholic. My family is not very religious. The only time I learn about Christ is on tv or in school.

And another thing- I know these questions are crazy. Yes, I know it. And I really don’t appreciate others questioning my faith when I’m questioning it myself

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Here’s another (crazy) question: could Jesus have done it for show? Could He have acted humble as a show, so people would believe Him?

First of all, it would have to be a truly spectacular performance. His disciples followed Him around for 3 years and were convinced He was sinless. Then the apostle John stayed with His Mother for another few decades before her death and Assumption, and he came out of the experience convinced that she was also sinless. The apostles all passed on to their disciples the teaching that Jesus and Mary were sinless.

We’d have to start by saying that Jesus and Mary put on a truly spectacular “fakery” of holiness and humility, a fakery so very good that the rest of us, striving with full sincerity for perfection, can only imitate it with marginal success. None of us, striving sincerely for perfection, could manage to convince those closest to us that we are sinless.

Another point is that Jesus’ life was very public, and yet Jesus said to His enemies in John 8:46, “Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?” No one could put on such a fine pretense at holiness, when under constant scrutiny, for so many years. And when you add the apostolic belief in Mary’s sinlessness to that of Jesus’ sinlessness, the pretense theory becomes all the more unbelievable.

Also, I would say that a lot of Jesus’ good deeds speak for themselves. You look at His life and even enemies of Christianity in modern times are generally forced to say that He was a very good teacher. Only a minority would say He actually was lying and power-seeking, because when you look at His life in the Gospels, and when you see the memories His apostles passed on concerning Him, and the religion of love they formed with Him as the founder, the power-seeking interpretation appears very weak.

The fact that Jesus was constantly willing to put His life on the line and commanded His followers not to defend Him also shows how He was not seeking power or putting on a pretense. It would be a very rare person that would put his life on the line for what they know to be a lie. Jesus tried to hide His miracles, most of the time (according to those that knew Him best), He ordered people not to affirm His identity as the Christ and Messiah, He refused to take any money for His constant service to others and He put His life on the line repeatedly. Jesus’ life was unceasingly sacrificial and when one looks at how much He gave and how He refused to take anything, it is plain why people love Him and that all the suggestions of devious motives are full of holes.

The reliability of the apostles’ accounts is further strengthened from the fact that they constantly criticize themselves in the Gospels, publicly for all to see, and show themselves as fools and in their weakest moments, but almost never doing or saying anything right. They were clearly honest men, painfully honest, and they told what they saw of Jesus.

After all, He said ‘the last shall be first and the first shall be last’. So if people applied that to Him, since He was humble, He would be exalted. Could that be what happened? See what I mean?

Telling witnesses of your good deeds not to tell anyone about them, and hiding your best works and all your sacrifices has got to be the weirdest way of trying to “show off” I’ve ever heard of. No self-seeking people campaign or show off in this way because, being self-seeking people, they couldn’t bring themselves to behave in constantly self-abandoning ways even if they tried. They put on a pretense for the masses, with imperfect success, while behaving imperfectly often behind the scenes. Jesus did neither of these things. He hid from the masses, hid His good works, and those that knew Him well, behind the scenes, believed Him to be sinless.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

cooldude, I responded to your most recent question in my last post on the previous page; this post is just another thing.

For your information, I’m a cradle Catholic. My family is not very religious. The only time I learn about Christ is on tv or in school.

And another thing- I know these questions are crazy. Yes, I know it. And I really don’t appreciate others questioning my faith when I’m questioning it myself

You’re doing fine; God bless you .

 

[coolduude]

cooldude, I responded to your most recent question in my last post on the previous page; this post is just another thing.

You’re doing fine; God bless you .

Thank you very much for the encouragement, Lief

 

[Joshnyams]

Jesus reached both the poor and rich. Remember the young man who came to Jesus asking what he still lacks…

Matthew 19:21-24 Jesus said to him, ‘If you wish to be perfect, go, sell your possessions, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.’ 22 When the young man heard this word, he went away grieving, for he had many possessions. 23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, ‘Truly I tell you, it will be hard for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.’

Jesus mission was not political powers but to save mankind. You can get a clear answer the way he answered the Pharisees who tempted him

“Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?" Answer “Caesar’s” Then “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.”

If he was after political power then he could have not answered this way.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Thank you very much for the encouragement, Lief

I’m praying for you .

Did you read post 15?

 

[coolduude]

I’m praying for you .

Did you read post 15?

Couldn’t miss it