Another Quirinius Thread

[Cyberseeker]

I believe that Jesus cleared the temple twice - once at the beginning of his ministry and once at the end. Here is my paper on the matter:

As for the chronology my key dates are as follows:

• Late 26 AD = Jesus baptised
• Nisan 27 AD = Jesus ministry begins
• Spring (Nisan?) 28 AD = Jesus feeds 5000
• Nisan 30 AD = Jesus crucified

I have a detailed diagram, but cannot display it on the Internet. I need to create it in svg format but its a bit of a challenge for me. Maybe later.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

I believe that Jesus cleared the temple twice - once at the beginning of his ministry and once at the end. Here is my paper on the matter:

As for the chronology my key dates are as follows:

• Late 26 AD = Jesus baptised
• Nisan 27 AD = Jesus ministry begins
• Spring (Nisan?) 28 AD = Jesus feeds 5000
• Nisan 30 AD = Jesus crucified

I have a detailed diagram, but cannot display it on the Internet. I need to create it in svg format but its a bit of a challenge for me. Maybe later.

Man, still flirting with the co-regency theory? You’ve been told that method’s improbable.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

I would question “Jesus cleanses the Temple” having occurred so early in his career.

My reasons are…

1. Luke’s account is the intentionally “orderly” one, as opposed to Mark or Matthew which were less likely to have been ordered chronologically, but were organized thematically.
2. Jesus “set his face to go to Jerusalem” because the “days drew near for him to be taken up.” (Luke 9:51) This seems to imply that events from here on to his Passion and death occurred in the six months or so prior to the month of Nisan when he was crucified. I would estimate July-August – the month of Av on the Jewish calendar.
3. After heading out for Jerusalem, he sends out 70 disciples to proclaim the kingdom (Luke 10:1) and they return (Luke 10:17). This would imply a period of weeks or even months between the two events while Jesus was making his way to Jerusalem. (September or Tishri?)
4. Jesus enters Jerusalem on a colt in Luke 19:37. This would have been a month or two before the Passover of his Passion and death. (See 8) below.) (February-March or Shevat?)
5. Jesus drives the sellers out of the Temple in Luke 19:45, after he entered Jerusalem on the colt.
6. His cleansing the Temple would have been the “last straw” as far as the Sanhedrin were concerned, since he definitively made himself out to have higher authority than the high priest and council regarding the comings and goings at the Temple. His claim to authority was again challenged by the chief priests in Luke 20:1-8. (March or Adar?)
7. Shortly after the cleansing, the chief priests and teachers were trying to find a way to kill Jesus (Luke 19:47)
8. Jesus was said to “regularly” teach in the Temple during the day and go to the Mount of Olives at night (Luke 21:37-8) This would seem to indicate a somewhat prolonged period of weeks or even months before the Passover of his death. (April or Nisan?)

Thoughts?

I am one of the few who believe that Jesus cleared the temple twice. You cannot really they to harmonize the two events no matter how much you try as they are presented in the synoptic gospels and John respectively. It is not John or the synoptics that supercedes the other, but John that sets the chronology for the synoptics.

The Triumphant Entry into Jerusalem happened on Passover week 30 A.D. as the other evangelists clearly state. Jesus went into Jerusalem many festivals and John clearly records him doing this as well.

 

[Peter_Plato]

I believe that Jesus cleared the temple twice - once at the beginning of his ministry and once at the end. Here is my paper on the matter:

As for the chronology my key dates are as follows:

• Late 26 AD = Jesus baptised
• Nisan 27 AD = Jesus ministry begins
• Spring (Nisan?) 28 AD = Jesus feeds 5000
• Nisan 30 AD = Jesus crucified

I have a detailed diagram, but cannot display it on the Internet. I need to create it in svg format but its a bit of a challenge for me. Maybe later.

Thanks, for this and the link to your paper. Both the repeat cleansing and the 3 1/2 year ministries are possible. I’m not sure about either and still working on it.

That John’s Gospel is chronological is made stronger by the fact that he very likely had Luke’s attempt to order the events at hand, whereas Matthew and Mark likely did not. Mark may not have been very interested in ordering things since his intention was simply to document Peter’s memories. Matthew’s discipleship started later and so he wasn’t present for some earlier events that he doesn’t include in his account.

Perhaps this might help with svg conversion…

svgontheweb.com

What format is your detailed diagram currently in?

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

I believe that Jesus cleared the temple twice - once at the beginning of his ministry and once at the end. Here is my paper on the matter:

As for the chronology my key dates are as follows:

• Late 26 AD = Jesus baptised
• Nisan 27 AD = Jesus ministry begins
• Spring (Nisan?) 28 AD = Jesus feeds 5000
• Nisan 30 AD = Jesus crucified

I have a detailed diagram, but cannot display it on the Internet. I need to create it in svg format but its a bit of a challenge for me. Maybe later.

The Romans never counted a person’s reign from their co-regency. A more correct way to count the 15th year of Tiberius is to count using the system used by the Syrians, from late 27 A.D. to late 28 A.D.

 

[Wesrock]

I frequently see Jesus’ crucifixion as being dated according to the Synoptics, where the Passover fell on a Friday. Does anyone have the available years for if the Passover was on a Saturday (well, sundown Friday through sundown on Saturday) and the Last Supper was an early and new Passover celebration due to Jesus knowing that sticking with the proper calendar would be impossible? Pope Benedict seems to float the idea that John’s chronology makes more sense and may very well be the accurate one in Jesus of Nazareth, part 2. He goes so far as to not try to reconcile the synoptics with John, but simply says that the Last Supper is given as occurring on the Passover due to it being the new Passover meal. But now I’m getting away from my original question…

 

[Cyberseeker]

Peter Plato:

Perhaps this might help with svg conversion…

svgontheweb.com

What format is your detailed diagram currently in?

A vector graphic because it was published in my book, ‘The Atonement Clock.’ The diagram straddles 2 pages and the fonts are somewhat small for a computer screen, so an svg picture would have to be magnified then scrolled. Oh dear … all this technology

But back to Jesus’ ministry. I think that it was exactly 3 years (37 months) between two separate temple cleansings. St John is not at odds with the synoptics, and the early crucifixion date of AD 30 is the right option.

 

[Peter_Plato]

A vector graphic because it was published in my book, ‘The Atonement Clock.’ The diagram straddles 2 pages and the fonts are somewhat small for a computer screen, so an svg picture would have to be magnified then scrolled. Oh dear … all this technology

I could very likely do any conversion you need. PM me if you want it done.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

A vector graphic because it was published in my book, ‘The Atonement Clock.’ The diagram straddles 2 pages and the fonts are somewhat small for a computer screen, so an svg picture would have to be magnified then scrolled. Oh dear … all this technology

But back to Jesus’ ministry. I think that it was exactly 3 years (37 months) between two separate temple cleansings. St John is not at odds with the synoptics, and the early crucifixion date of AD 30 is the right option.

Jesus ministry lasted 2 years and 2 to 5 months.

Ericc says it better than me.

Eusebius in his Chronicles in fact started the appearance of Jesus in the same year as John.

In the 15th year of his reign, which was the fourth year of the 201st Olympiad [28
A.D.], our Savior and Lord Jesus Christ appeared among humankind.

which is AD 28. He also states:

From the 15th year of Tiberius to the very end of the siege
of Jerusalem–which occurred in the second year of Vespasian–is a total of 42 years.

which ties in with AD70 as the destruction date and the 40 years of Jesus death which you mentioned earlier. Which point to Christ death at AD30. From AD28 - AD30 is within the ballpark number of 2.5 to 3 years of the length of Christ’s ministry. The 2.5 years is typically derived from the number of passovers that Jesus observed from John’s Gospel.

Jn 2:13
Jn 6:4
Jn 11:55

 

[Cyberseeker]

JB Brother 4446:

Jesus ministry lasted 2 years and 2 to 5 months.
Ericc says it better than me.

But you are counting the start of his ministry from his baptism. That is a moot point because he spent 40 days in the wilderness and only started ministering to people in the following spring. What you are really saying (in effect) is that his ministry lasted two years - not three.

ericc:

The 2.5 years is typically derived from the number of passovers that Jesus observed from John’s Gospel.

Jn 2:13
Jn 6:4
Jn 11:55

Yes, but was the second to last Passover missed out of John’s narrative due to Jesus non-attendance? I believe that was the case in AD 29.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

But you are counting the start of his ministry from his baptism. That is a moot point because he spent 40 days in the wilderness and only started ministering to people in the following spring. What you are really saying (in effect) is that his ministry lasted two years - not three.

Yes, but was the second to last Passover missed out of John’s narrative due to Jesus non-attendance? I believe that was the case in AD 29.

Is that in the Bible, Cyberseeker?

And Jesus started ministering after the 40 days in the wilderness shortly before the feast of Passover. Wedding at Cana remember? The first cleansing of the temple happen shortly after Jesus first miracle. Probably within months, lets say 2.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

But you are counting the start of his ministry from his baptism. That is a moot point because he spent 40 days in the wilderness and only started ministering to people in the following spring. What you are really saying (in effect) is that his ministry lasted two years - not three.

Yes, but was the second to last Passover missed out of John’s narrative due to Jesus non-attendance? I believe that was the case in AD 29.

The Jews counted inclusively, from Friday to Sunday is 3 days counting from Friday.
So 3 years. And Jesus did many things before the first Temple cleansing.

So according to Eusebius, Jesus died 30 A.D. in the third year of his ministry and started his ministry in 28 A.D. Tada!

 

[Cyberseeker]

Is that in the Bible, Cyberseeker?

And Jesus started ministering after the 40 days in the wilderness shortly before the feast of Passover. Wedding at Cana remember? The first cleansing of the temple happen shortly after Jesus first miracle. Probably within months, lets say 2.

Lets say 2 days more like it. The marriage of Cana happened on the 3rd day of his ministry. (John 2:1)

Also, have you considered how long it take to recover strength after a 40 day fast? You dont just bounce out of the hills and start working.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

Lets say 2 days more like it. The marriage of Cana happened on the 3rd day of his ministry. (John 2:1)

Also, have you considered how long it take to recover strength after a 40 day fast? You dont just bounce out of the hills and start working.

Did not the Holy Angels come and minister to Him?

 

[Cyberseeker]

Rather than derail this Quirinius thread, I thought Id start a new topic for anyone who might be interested.

Jesus Ministry Timeline