Another Quirinius Thread

[Faith1960]

Faith1960;13518977:

What makes you think that Catholicism, and many protestant denominations, are fundamentalist? Do you take the bible literally? Do you think the earth was made in 7 literal days? Do you think Noah saved every type of animal on the earth?

Fran

I just read things here and then think things in the Bible are literal. I’ve talked to my SD a lot abou this and have asked various quesions of my priest and they suggest I stay off CAF.

 

[Peter_Plato]

It’s that here, on CAF, one person says one thing, then another person says the opposite. It’s kind of hard to know who’s right.

Why are you expecting any one to be “right?”

Isn’t the objective to know the truth?

Sometimes, like sculpting, refining or polishing stones it requires taking off a bit there, shaving a bit here, pounding some in another place, until the truth, reality or the face of God begins to become just a bit more obvious.

Think of Michelangelo bringing David, Moses or The Pieta out of marble, God is the potter we are the clay. Unfortunately, we happen to be living clay which makes things just a tad more difficult to get just right, which is why faith, hope and love are the cardinal theolgical virtues that ought to guide our manner of responding to the forming hand of God.

 

[Peter_Plato]

I just read things here and then think things in the Bible are literal. I’ve talked to my SD a lot abou this and have asked various quesions of my priest and they suggest I stay off CAF.

There are a couple of things that come to mind here.

First, why is it that they are advising you to stay off CAF?

Second, if that is their considered direction for you, why are you not following their advice?

 

[Faith1960]

There are a couple of things that come to mind here.

First, why is it that they are advising you to stay off CAF?

Second, if that is their considered direction for you, why are you not following their advice?

They advise it because they, and friends, think its detrimental to my faith, what with all the varied opinions, including atheists who post here.

I don’t follow their advice because I’m sort of addicted to CAF.

 

[Faith1960]

Why are you expecting any one to be “right?”

Isn’t the objective to know the truth?

.

I keep expecting someone to be right and have the truth. I pm’d a couple people whose opinions I trust by aren’t on this thread so it’s all good.

 

[frangiuliano115]

frangiuliano115;13519273:

I just read things here and then think things in the Bible are literal. I’ve talked to my SD a lot abou this and have asked various quesions of my priest and they suggest I stay off CAF.

You go to a SD for a reason and I’m sure he’s giving you the best direction possible.

He might be right in telling you to stay off CAF. Maybe it’s not edifying for you to hear all these different opinions?

Maybe you have to make up your own mind first, and then come back? I’ve studied my faith for many years. I feel my rapport with Jesus is solid. I know what I believe and am firm in those beliefs. Otherwise I’d be having some trouble here on CAF because of the very reason that everyone is so convinced that they are the one who is right.

When we go to be before God we’ll be judged by our own relationship with Him, but what we believed to be right or wrong, based on His word, based on what knowledge we could glean, based on a properly formed conscience that includes God. I doubt we’ll be judged by a right or wrong doctrine, but by what we believe in our heart and how close we are to God.

Would you agree?

Fran

 

[frangiuliano115]

I keep expecting someone to be right and have the truth. I pm’d a couple people whose opinions I trust by aren’t on this thread so it’s all good.

I know you mean this question for Peter Plato, but, Faith, there is only one person who has the truth:

JESUS!

Learn to know Him so well that you would know what He’d answer if you asked Him a question.

Fran

 

[Faith1960]

Faith1960;13519295:

You go to a SD for a reason and I’m sure he’s giving you the best direction possible.

He might be right in telling you to stay off CAF. Maybe it’s not edifying for you to hear all these different opinions?

Maybe you have to make up your own mind first, and then come back? I’ve studied my faith for many years. I feel my rapport with Jesus is solid. I know what I believe and am firm in those beliefs. Otherwise I’d be having some trouble here on CAF because of the very reason that everyone is so convinced that they are the one who is right.

When we go to be before God we’ll be judged by our own relationship with Him, but what we believed to be right or wrong, based on His word, based on what knowledge we could glean, based on a properly formed conscience that includes God. I doubt we’ll be judged by a right or wrong doctrine, but by what we believe in our heart and how close we are to God.

Would you agree?

Fran

I agree with this. As to my staying off CAF, i don’t know how long I can do it. Like I said, I’m sort of addicted. Took some time off during Lent but that didn’t last.

 

[Faith1960]

I know you mean this question for Peter Plato, but, Faith, there is only one person who has the truth:

JESUS!

Learn to know Him so well that you would know what He’d answer if you asked Him a question.

Fran

I have OCD so I don’t know that I’d trust myself in knowing His answer.

 

[frangiuliano115]

frangiuliano115;13519421:

I agree with this. As to my staying off scARf, don’t know how long I can do it. Like I said, I’m sort of addicted. Took some time off during Lent but that didn’t last.

Yeah. I think we’re all kind of addicted! I’ve decided to quit already a couple of times, but here I am. I think I need a rehab center!

Because it’s fun to hear what different people think and believe. So I guess you could look at it like this, instead of it being a learning tool - although it could be that too.

Fran

 

[frangiuliano115]

I have OCD so I don’t know that I’d trust myself in knowing His answer.

Someone in my family has OCD. Not bad and she’s on medication.

Maybe here on this earth you have your problem, but God knows you do and I can assure you that you’re in His loving care and you have nothing to worry about.

Just stay close to Him and don’t abandon Him and He’ll never abandon you. Even if you get His answer wrong - He still loves you!

Fran

 

[thinkandmull]

What year was Christ born and is there any reason, besides the Bible, to believe there was a census at that time, led by Quirinius?
A link from another thread says governor in those days could also mean “leading or in charge of” so I suppose Quirinius could have been a leader of some kind, but is txhere any proof of a census then?

Also what year was Christ born? Quirinius was leading military action from 12 BC to 2BC.

What if this is all wrong? Can the Bible be wrong in historical details? In the other thread, they say no, but other times, I’ve read yes.

It’s the thread-- The Inspired Word of God, post #47

A lot of new Catholics interpret the first 11 books of Genesis non-literally, and Job as well. I don’t see what argument that can use to say other parts are wholly historically. The Church needs to define the status of each book of the Bible, in my opinion

 

[Faith1960]

You know what? If people are sick of my repetetive questions, they do have tested option to pass over my thread and simply not read it or answer. What a brilliant idea!

 

[Cyberseeker]

frangiuliano115:

What is MORE important than the resurrection??

Nothing, is more important than the resurrection! :yup: Of course, of course. (and math might be more important than history too)

But Fran, please give Bible history more credit than what you do, even if you have to read the opinions of a humble proddy fundamentalist. Most Bible dates, after Abraham at least, have been nailed, and Christians can quote them confidently in the face of unbelieving skeptics.

 

[Peter_Plato]

I have OCD so I don’t know that I’d trust myself in knowing His answer.

Actually, OCD should be written CDO with all the letters in alphabetical order like they were meant to be!

 

[Lion_IRC]

I cannot believe Gospel writers would write something so obviously untrue (and or stupid) about such a public figure as Quirinius or an institutional public event like a government census/tax and which would have been immediately debunked and ridiculed - particularly by other early Christians who would be asking Luke;
…“dude! are you losing your marbles? There was never a census! And what the heck does Quirinius have to do with Jesus’ nativity?”

 

[guanophore]

It’s that here, on CAF, one person says one thing, then another person says the opposite. It’s kind of hard to know who’s right.

You are right, there are as many different opinions as there are belly buttons. But this is why you need to do your own research and learn your faith well. Check the Catechism, and other documents to verify what you are told.

Maybe I should have said "MOST" important instead of "ONLY" important.

You hang onto every word.

Especially those in BOLD CAPITOLS

But you haven’t answered my question:

What is MORE important than the resurrection??

We, as Christians, could accept any error if there be one - but could we ever accept that the resurrection was a lie??

Fran

it seemed off topic. I understood that the thread was about historical validity. There are plenty of people who deny the resurrection. Some refuse to accept it has an historical fact.

I just read things here and then think things in the Bible are literal. I’ve talked to my SD a lot abou this and have asked various quesions of my priest and they suggest I stay off CAF.

If being on CAF is not beneficial to your faith development, ,then you should heed the advice of your SD.

CAF can be very difficult and frustrating for people who think in black and white.

I keep expecting someone to be right and have the truth. I pm’d a couple people whose opinions I trust by aren’t on this thread so it’s all good.

With all due respect, Faith, you are the one who needs to “be right and have the truth”. Yours is the only soul you are responsible to get to heaven. Each of us has a responsibility to study the faith. Humility is one aspect of spiritual growth that is essential. If you are willing to submit yourself to the direction of those who are trying to help you, you will get a lot further faster.

Addictions are destructive to the growth of the soul. Give up your addictions and you will find peace in Christ.

I have OCD so I don’t know that I’d trust myself in knowing His answer.

Have you consisdered investing in some treatment? It may be a better use of your resources right now than CAF.

 

[frangiuliano115]

Nothing, is more important than the resurrection. :yup: Of course, of course. (and math might be more important than history too)

But Fran, please give Bible history more credit than what you do, even if you have to read the opinions of a humble proddy fundamentalist. Most Bible dates, after Abraham at least, have been nailed, and Christians can quote them confidently in the face of unbelieving skeptics.

I agree Cyberseeker!

It’s easy to be misunderstood on these threads.
First of all, I like history more than math. So that’s fixed. I was just trying to make a point.
Second, I give blblical history a lot of importance. It’s what makes it all real! I used to cut out images of the Sea of Galilee for my catechism kids. Tell them the distances between towns in Israel. I love the story of Ruth. What more can I say??

Isn’t this the thread where I mentioned about Abraham being the beginning of biblical history? There was a real first man and first woman too - I just doubt they were really named Adam and Eve. That doesn’t let the whole story be untrue. Although, they COULD HAVE been named Adam and Eve. Get’s complicated!

And isn’t this the thread where I mentioned about Jericho being found after historians and archeologists doubted it ever existed?

If it didn’t include history, it would just be a big story – But the bible wasn’t written to be a history book. This is what I meant.

Fran

 

[Peter_Plato]

I cannot believe Gospel writers would write something so obviously untrue (and or stupid) about such a public figure as Quirinius or an institutional public event like a government census/tax and which would have been immediately debunked and ridiculed - particularly by other early Christians who would be asking Luke;
…“dude! are you losing your marbles? There was never a census! And what the heck does Quirinius have to do with Jesus’ nativity?”

Yes, and here we are 2000 years removed from the situation thinking that we have more knowledge on the subject than Luke had living in that present situation.

Sure, we are soooo smart!

Perhaps we should stick to trying to know our own place rather than tell individuals 2000 years ago what they were supposed to have known.

 

[frangiuliano115]

Actually, OCD should be written CDO with all the letters in alphabetical order like they were meant to be!

You’re too much Peter Plato!

Fran