ANOTHER Serious MORTAL SIN QUESTION

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TO ANY SCRUPULOUS PEOPLE, PLEASE AVOID READING THIS POST.

**My own first attempt at helping you: I don’t remember exactly the citation, but I’m pretty sure that the Church has said that where there is a doubt about the law in question (whether it’s mortal sin or not; Or whether it’s sin at all or not) that there is therefore no mortal sin in that act. So your being genuinely confused about whether you could validly receive or not takes away the possibility of committing a mortal sin in that regard. It would be different if you genuinely mistakenly believed, were sure, that it was truly mortal sin to receive and then went ahead and received anyway, as opposed to just being confused about whether it was sin/mortal/or not and then at some point deciding it was not and receiving, as you were in this case. If I find it, I’ll post it- I think it’s in the CCC or Canon Law. But you should speak to your priest about this and about the scrupulosity struggle. It’s very hard, I know. **

Hi Marybeloved (( I like your chosen name )). Thank you so much for caring and responding.
I had usually attended Easter VIGIL masses until about 2006, and any adult confirmations, even by our current priest, were done BY THE PRIEST and nobody was told nor was it ever announced during the Vigil Mass, that these newly-received Catholics now had to GO TO THE BISHOP to be confirmed before they could receive communion.
I knew that had never happened, but that wasn’t conclusive in favor of my receiving, in my mind last night, because maybe all those years, at those vigil masses, MAYBE THOSE adults were newly baptized, not converts from other churches ((this is all the stuff that was whirling through my mind, CAN I receive?? WAS I confimed?? Was I NOT confirmed?? What’s going on here?? What did I receive in 2009 from that priest when he anointed me with Chrism?? etc etc etc etc)).
So I couldn’t take certain comfort in the the fact that what I saw last night was something new. In fact, I never knew there was a “policy”, one way or another, in 1999 nor now, until I queried my RCIA instructor AFTER the Mass.
But like I said, I hadn’t attended Easter Mass at the EASTER VIGIL Mass, in about 6 or 7 years. I had been attending all those years, on Easter Sunday MORNING. There are no baptisms or Confirmations or First Eucharists on Easter Sunday MORNING at those masses. They are always done at the Easter VIGIL Mass.

This year, I had a chance to attend the Easter Vigil Mass, right after work, and I was delighted to have the chance to do that this year. I was properly disposed, had been praying the Saint Gertrude Prayer ALL DAY long for the release of Holy Souls, as well as the “act of love” prayer (Jesus, Mary, I love you, save souls!!) prayer, over and over again, for the salvation, by ordinary OR extraordinary means, of hundreds of other sinners (( I do not like to say “for the salvation of hundreds of sinners” because that sounds to my ears like I am saying that I am not a sinner myself, when I have been one of the worst in some ways )), I was looking forward to a grace-filled evening. It was beautiful, right up until the “Surprise” when my very orthodox priest said we are receiving 4 adults by baptism into the church, who will then be given Confirmation and Eucharist immediately to complete their Christian Initiation. We are also receiving 4 already-baptized adults from other denominations, whom we will be giving a blessing to, but who still have to go in a few weeks to the Cathedral to be Confirmed by the Bishop, after which we will give them first communion. That, literally, STUNNED ME out of my wits. WHAT ?!?!?!
I had NEVER encounter such a thing at the Vigil Mass, and it surprised the DAYLIGHTS out of me, and scared me, because I myself, as a baptized adult convert from another church, had been received into, and given Confirmation, at the Easter Vigil Mass in 1999.
Or, until that very second, I had always THOUGHT I had received Confirmation. Had I??
You can’t IMAGINE the sudden fear and confusion that seized me. All kinds of thoughts started racing.
My 1999 nervous breakdown late that summer?? Maybe I had been receiving sacrilegious communions because maybe I had not been REALLY confirmed that night, maybe that’s why I had that breakdown??? Was I confirmed at all, ever?? If I wasn’t, then several of us at that 1999 vigil mass hadn’t been, either, also being adult converts from other denominations, and they needed to be told this. What is this? How could this have happened?? So I am, really, officially, still a NonCatholic?? This is scary.
All these thoughts, and thousands more, were going through my mind.
My priest was saying that you must be confirmed by the Bishop, Himself, if you were baptized, validly, in another denomination, before you can even receive FIRST communion, and I’ve been receiving all these years, never having been confirmed by the Bishop??? And was never told I HAD to be??? WHY?!?! I felt sick, angry, and scared. Why was I not sent to the Bishop for confirmation? All these questions. Should I receive tonight? I don’t want to receive a sacrilegious communion!! But I thought I WAS confirmed, BY MY PRIEST, I was thinking, and now it’s sprung on me that for converts like ME, it MUST be done by the Bishop? Why did God let this happen to me??? Something is not right about this. Something is off kilter, here, I thought.
CONTINUED BELOW. POST IS TOO LONG. I RAMBLE, SORRY.
 
CONTINUED FROM ABOVE, in response to Marybeloved’s reply.
Scrupulous People, PLEASE avoid this post too.

Look, I thought to myself, I’m going to receive tonight after all, because it can’t be INHERENTLY sinful for an UNconfirmed person to receive, or else UNconfirmed Catholic Children would not be allowed to receive, and they are, so it’s not INHERENTLY sinful, so I am going to receive,
but as soon as this mass is over, I am going to talk to “Maria” ((NOT her real name)) who runs the RCIA program, and ask her if this is “for real,” and if it IS, then I am not going to receive again until I receive a Conditional Confirmation from the Bishop"
That was my decision: to go ahead and receive, even if it turns out that I am literally
still a Non-Catholic and it’s against the rules, because it’s not inherently sinful to do so,
and because if, if, I am interpreting this wrongly, then I have nothing to worry about.

I was in sincere doubt as to whether I was actually a Catholic. ALL of a sudden!!
You can’t imagine what a sickening feeling that was.
I decided to receive even if it was against church rules for me to do so, because I was focusing on the fact that receiving without confirmation is not INHERENTLY sinful because children, unconfirmed, are allowed to receive communion.
Of course, I wasn’t focusing on the fact that breaking Church Rules, too, CAN be a serious matter indeed. I was shocked, angry, confused, and even a little bitter that this
surprise had been sprung on me after all these years.

Imagine my relief when my RCIA director told me, after the Mass, that I was validly confirmed in 1999, that this WAS INDEED a very recent CHANGE in policy toward converts from other churches, by our NEW Archbishop. I felt relieved. Overjoyed.

But about ten minutes later or less, it started. All the mental accusations. Namely,
Saint Paul said in scripture that whatever is not of Faith, is sin. You were not in full faith tonight when you received, you had doubts. You just received communion sacrilegiously.
Because you disobeyed your conscience when you had doubts and received. You broke the laws of the Church in this matter, in your HEART, by receiving when you weren’t SURE you were a Catholic.
Those thoughts would not stop.

Please, don’t anyone lecture me. I’m relating what I went through, not bragging
about it nor being stubborn. These thoughts are TERRIFYING, as was this visible manifestation of a change in policy that I never knew had ever even existed, nor did I know about our new bishop reversing it and that my confirmation HAD been valid.
It was the receiving without having moral certainty in my conscience that I was still absolutely free to do so, that had me sick and scared all day long.

I think, but don’t know for sure, that some at least of these destructive thoughts today,
may have been demonic accusations. I can’t prove it one way or another. But I have not been able to say more than ONE prayer today, and that was for someone ELSE.

That’s why I posted on here about this:
To clarify sin and conscience, even GROSSLY MISTAKEN conscience.
And all these well meaning people on this thread misunderstood my point.
I already KNEW I was validly confirmed when I first posted my first question.
Except for one person, everybody, well-meaning, misunderstood and kept advising me
to get my Certificate, proving my Confirmation,
or telling me I was scrupulous, or even, one put it rather smarmily, that I needed to
go see a shrink, using sarcastic yet diplomatic language.

This has been a confusing, scary, harrowing day.
I plan to see my priest as soon as I can, because I want to explain to him the circumstances, and just in case there was any degree of subjective guilt, small or large on my part, confess it, be absolved, and do any needed penances.
I was also relieved to learn, on this thread, that those Saints who claim that there is no penance sufficient to make up, in this life, for a sacrilegious communion, were NOT necessarily right about that. They may be extraordinarily holy, but they are not in this life Infallible. I don’t ever want to go through anything like this again.

And I defintely DO NOT want to sin against the body and blood of the Lord.
 
Marybeloved said:
I don’t remember exactly the citation, but I’m pretty sure that the Church has said that where there is a doubt about the law in question (whether it’s mortal sin or not; Or whether it’s sin at all or not) that there is therefore no mortal sin in that act.
Click to expand...
Such is a rather more involved subject…as to what is meant etc in terms of the doubtful law etc etc. There is much to it that must be distinguished (ordinarily a person is not to just go ahead when in actual doubt if something is a sin…though those with scrupulosity need to follow the principles given to them and are struggling with scruples.) Too much to go into here.

For those who are scrupulous etc – they need to --as you note discuss things with their confessor and get his direction …and he can give them general principles to follow to assist them as persons who struggle with scruples. They can be in a different boat than others who do not struggle with such (Oh and I should note that the principles would be for them…not for others who have a normal conscience).
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
There was a priest, God bless him, who used to warn people at St. Michael the Archangel Church in Miami, quote:

**“Before you come forward, friends,
…hear me well: If you are NOT Catholic, OR,
…If you ARE Catholic, but are in unconfessed mortal sin,
…DO NOT partake of the Eucharist. DO NOT DO SO.
…I warn you: To do so would be a sacrilege.”
**
In my opinion, this should be done in every parish today
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👍

I would SO love to see this up on the large video screens at our parish…Instead of “If you are not Catholic or not prepared for Communion, please come up and receive a blessing by crossing your arms over your chest.”

Of course, there would still be those who tell themselves there is no such thing as mortal sin, or if mortal sin exists, it’s not what I am doing, but it would cut down on at least some of the sacrilege that happens at every Mass.

I would travel across the city to attend that church.
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
There was a priest, God bless him, who used to warn people at St. Michael the Archangel Church in Miami, quote:

“Before you come forward, friends,
…hear me well: If you are NOT Catholic, OR,
…If you ARE Catholic, but are in unconfessed mortal sin,
…DO NOT partake of the Eucharist. DO NOT DO SO.
…I warn you: To do so would be a sacrilege.”
Click to expand...
Wow…this is good to hear! Out of curiosity, how many of those in the pews scoffed or made a face?
 
Scoffed or made a face?? At THAT parish??

Oh no.
Saint Michael the Archangel parish in Miami, in my opinion, is one of the finest Catholic parishes in the entire United States. I love that parish. It’s where I first started taking
RCIA. With THAT wonderful priest. And wouldn’t you know it, his Order called him away
and I wasn’t Catholic yet, and when he left, I don’t know, but it seemed that his
PARTICULAR teaching charism left with him, and I kind of gradually stopped going.

I wasn’t confirmed until several years later, and at another parish, by
a modernist priest, whom I tried my best to get along with,
but if you have ever been exposed to CONVINCED theological Radical Liberals who are TRYING to subvert any church,
and seen them in action or read their books and articles, as I had in the P.C.U.S.A.,
then you recognize the particular anti-authority and anti-obedience spirit in them right away, and you are not mistaken about it. Especially when they demonstrate it over and over and over again. But that’s another subject.
And, even now, you don’t ever have to worry about that Dissident spirit at
St. Michael the Archangel parish in Miami.
That parish is named after Saint Michael, and he may be therefore
PROTECTING that parish from the Dissident spirit ever entering it.
Their pastoral team is very good, their liturgical atmosphere serene and reverent.
Another terrific parish in South Florida is SAINT LOUIS also in Miami, in the Pinecrest area. We have quite a few very, very good parishes in Miami. And our new archbishop
Thomas Wenski, is highly regarded by orthodox Catholics who know him.
He was a former auxiliary bishop here, then became the Bishop of Orlando, Florida, then was assigned about 2 years ago to the A.D. of Miami.
So far, I really like him, very much.
(( I just wish that he had required this policy change re confirmations of adults from
…other denominations to be announced at the easter vigil, that it was a policy change,
…cuz some of us, like me especially, were startled by it and never knew that there
…was ever even a “policy” that was even changed. Thank God, literally, that
…my RCIA director knew. )).

For all of you who contributed to this thread,
thank you very, very much.

I went ahead and went to confess tonight and received absolution.
The fears are gone.
Rule of Thumb, in General:
DON’T go against your conscience. If it turns out to have been misinformed,
then yay!! But if it’s truly GRAVE matter, don’t risk guilt feelings, whether caused by
genuine guilt, or scupulosity, or a vengeful demonic attack on your conscience later,
or a combination of all three perhaps. Don’t risk it.
If I had waited til after Mass, asked my RCIA director, and THEN received, from one of the Extraordinary Ministers still there, none of these terrible fears would have ever even occured. Don’t risk it. If the fallen angels KNOW that you will worry about things later,
rightly or wrongly on your part, they WILL attack you. They observe you and, as the famous line in the movie THE EXORCIST goes, “Don’t listen to the Demon, Damien.
He KNOWS what scares you. Whatever you do, Damien, DON’T listen.”
They do know what scares us.

Peace,
Jaypeeto4
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
There was a priest, God bless him, who used to warn people at St. Michael the Archangel Church in Miami, quote:

“Before you come forward, friends,
…hear me well: If you are NOT Catholic, OR,
…If you ARE Catholic, but are in unconfessed mortal sin,
…DO NOT partake of the Eucharist. DO NOT DO SO.
…I warn you: To do so would be a sacrilege.”

In my opinion, this should be done in every parish today
Click to expand...
Such catechesis is important, but in my opinion there is a time and place for it, and during the Eucharistic prayer is not the right time and place. The faithful have already completed the penetential rite, are spending time in worship, reflection, and silent prayer, and such a warning would likely only encourage doubt among the aleady scrupulous. I think comments such as this should be kept to homilies or comments after communion and not cause potential disruption to the flow of the Eucharistic prayer.
TheRealJuliane said:
I would SO love to see this up on the large video screens at our parish…Instead of “If you are not Catholic or not prepared for Communion, please come up and receive a blessing by crossing your arms over your chest.”
Click to expand...
Actually, I find this wording more agreeable and being presented on the screens, rather than declared by the priest, is nondisruptive while still delivering the message.

Again, I’m not suggesting that such instruction is unimportant, but just questionning the timing and emphasis of it.
 
**Such catechesis is important, but in my opinion there is a time and place for it, and during the Eucharistic prayer is not the right time and place. The faithful have already completed the penetential rite, are spending time in worship, reflection, and silent prayer, and such a warning would likely only encourage doubt among the aleady scrupulous. **

Hello, kind soul.
I understand your concern for not encouraging doubt among the already scupulous,
but the faithful having completed the penetential rite (assuming you mean the rite within the liturgy itself and not face-to-face sacrament of confession) is not sufficient for those who are in mortal sin by deliberately disobeying Church and Divine Moral Laws.

According to surveys, millions of Catholics are doing this, in the United States today, and basically claiming a RIGHT to do so, to the surveyors taking the surveys. According to several surveys, well over 50% of adult catholics are deliberately and regularly using Artificial Contraception despite REPEATED Vatican warnings that this practice DOES fall under the authority of being forbidden by the AUTHORITATIVE magisterium and is binding under pain of mortal sin. These warnings have been repeated on EWTN, on scores of Catholic websites, and in scores of Catholic newspapers and magazines and radio programs, and STILL the disobedience persists (and not only in this matter too). Plus,
most Catholics love watching, regularly, television programs (and there are some comments to this effect on these very forums) that are grossly immoral and promote wickedness, and actually believe that they are SO strong in faith that they cannot be induced to Sin by constant exposure to this “programming” — and folks, having been in the theatre and knowing the mindset of most of the entertainment community (it is anti-God for the most part, and anti-GodliNESS), I assure you that they don’t call it
“programming” for nothing. We ARE being “programmed” by those shows, deliberately.
They ARE intended as propaganda vehicles for the various godless agendas of the various producers and directors and screenwriters. It is NOT accidental that these shows promote immorality to an extreme degree. That is deliberate. They themselves will often tell you as much. Constant exposure to that, WILL weaken your fidelity, we are NOT bloodless wonders.
Noting that, and the gross general immorality, practiced openly and openly tolerated and even condoned and promoted openly, in the United States and Western Europe today,
I really do not believe that the danger is that we are going to be primarily causing unnecessary doubts among the already-scrupulous by such direct, emphatic warnings.
We might, and that’s not good, but the greater danger is to those deliberately committing mortal sins, NOT repenting and confessing, and STILL making Communion lines a mile long. At my and other parishes in very flesh-indulging South Florida, there is, in many parishes, no-one, to maybe only 1 or 2 people, usually, if that, at the Confessional on confession days. But the Communion line is truly a mile long. And, some of these dear folks come to church dressed in gut tight, incredibly “sexy” clothing, which is not proper to a holy sacrifice of the Mass, revealing that today folks, some of us, just don’t grasp HOW sacred the Mass IS.
Now, just going by the “law of averages” in this extremely sinful and very morally-liberal
community, it is frighteningly likely that some, perhaps many (not necessarily most or all) are callously receiving communion in mortal sin while knowing they are disobeying the 2000 year old moral teachings of the church and NOT first confessing and repenting before receiving. Continuously.
This is scary, so I think that Priest’s direct approach, IN OUR ESPECIALLY SINFUL TIMES, was and is necessary and appropriate.
I am somewhat scrupulous, and such a warning is very healthy to hear.
It is not telling you or them that they are necessarily in mortal sin over “little” things.
It is a solemn warning, that’s all, and in these times, especially necessary I think.

Look at the former Speaker of the u.s. house of reps in D.C. A grossly defiant, dissident and grossly disobedient “Catholic,” she bragged that no matter what the bishop said,
she was going to continue to receive communion daily, all the while openly denouncing and defying the teachings of the church ON PURPOSE. This, receiving communion in a state of open, brazen defiance of repeated magisterial teaching and warnings, as well as against the orders of her bishop(s), is especially heinous against the body of the Lord.

And the priest, now deceased, who used to habitually give her communion,
and who by the way, advocated these things HIMSELF and was one of the priests who, in the 60s and 70s, COUNSELLED Catholics HOW to disobey Church teachings and support evil laws WITHOUT it bothering their conscience. Why this priest, horribly sinful and evil for doing this, was never even suspended, when overly-orthodox priests ARE, is beyond my comprehension or even ability to BEGIN to understand. Wolves like this, are STILL being allowed to devour the flock, even with this good, holy pope sitting on the throne of Peter. I don’t understand this continued tolerance of priestly promoters of evil. That famous radical and dissident “Father” you-know-who in Chicago, should have been defrocked and excommunicated years ago.
If ultraconservative disobedient priests, like Father G, were suspended, and he was, and I feel truly that he deserved it, because orthodox priests can disobey and cause trouble too,
then these doctrinal-apostates should be Defrocked too, all the more so.
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
CONTINUED FROM ABOVE, in response to Marybeloved’s reply…I plan to see my priest as soon as I can, because I want to explain to him the circumstances, and just in case there was any degree of subjective guilt, small or large on my part, confess it, be absolved, and do any needed penances.
I was also relieved to learn, on this thread, that those Saints who claim that there is no penance sufficient to make up, in this life, for a sacrilegious communion, were NOT necessarily right about that. They may be extraordinarily holy, but they are not in this life Infallible. I don’t ever want to go through anything like this again.

And I defintely DO NOT want to sin against the body and blood of the Lord.
Click to expand...
Wow. I had something kinda like this-not exactly. But it was like I was in a whirl-wind that wouldn’t stop. Couldn’t make any decision one way or another, it truly felt like a cruel game that the devil was playing with me- just about this time last year, too and it was for months. For me, it came to a sudden stop when I threw away my mind (refused to reason for myself/make my choices- quite literally) and just stopped. I fell in-front of our lady and prayed the Rosary like a small kid who knows nothing- Didn’t WANT to know anything either, by this point! It taught me to distrust my intellect- I truly do not know what is good for me- AT ALL. When it was over, I knew this truth in my very bones. God alone truly knows anything- My intelligence is bunk. I think these things happen when we have a hidden unconscious dependence on our own intellect and knowledge and our ability to choose good and bad, yet we don’t see this self-dependence. Sometimes, I believe God allows us to feel experimentally that our own intellect is nothing- We literally know nothing yet we don’t realize that we know nothing- Trust him.

For you per what you describe, I’ve read that the way out of this is to give up your own right to make those judgments for yourself- It really is the only way out. Find a good Priest and trust yourself to him completely. Become a fool for your own sake. Whatever he tells you, accept- Reject anything your mind says to you in contradiction to his advice and direction. However your mind reasons, however compelling, if it contradicts the Director Priest- Treat it like the voice of the Devil himself- Ignore it. The Saints say that obedience is what matters most to Christ because it’s true humility. Even if the Priest/Spiritual Director is wrong in his advice, the Lord will make it work for you if you obey. That’s the only cure for scrupulosity -And the Rosary, of course. Tell a good mature Priest that you would like to trust yourself to him in spiritual Direction and then obey ALL his advice and directions and cling with all your strength to the Mother of God.

Peace.
 
To Marybeloved,
thank you for your kind and sage advice above. It is noted and well-taken.
Thanks very, very much.

To anyone I chided in this thread, even if your insults warranted the chiding (by telling me to go see a shrink for being worried over a legitimate grave matter: violating conscience in regard to the Eucharist). I am not mad at you, and I apologize for replying to you
by saying that I hope that you one day post on here, when hurting, and get insulted in the same way, so that you learn from bitter experience not to treat hurting people that way.
In all seriouness, I do NOT seriously hope that that happens to you,
and I apologize for saying it.

As for catholic politicians who brazenly (and openly insultingly) defy the pope, the magisterium and their own bishop and disobediently and defiantly continue to receive communion while facilitating and advocating the spread, deliberately, of mortal sins such as abortions and other moral evils,
if they haven’t gone too far yet (( cf. Matthew 12:31, 32, Hebrews 10:26-31 )) by doing these evil things defiantly for years and years now,
IF they haven’t “crossed the eternal line” yet,
then God and Jesus will discipline them or, in some other way, call them to a full
and open repentance.
But if they have gone too far, and it IS possible to do so ((though this does NOT apply to any repentant, remorseful person, no matter how far you went or for how long)),
then He will NOT discipline them, will ALLOW them to continue advocating evil yet PROSPER, and will NOT call them back to repentance.
Folks, that DOES happen, scripture blatantly says it does,
and it is a very scary thing: to be allowed by God to become very, very prosperous while in unrepentant mortal sin, and be allowed by him, with no serious attempt on his part to call you back, to get worse and worse and worse in your apostasy and disobedience.
"God chastens those whom he receives as sons (and daughters), says scripture.
If you are doing serious evil, knowingly, deliberately, and are a catechized Catholic,
and God is sending you NO warnings, NO worries, AMPLE prosperity,
that is a very scary thing. You (not referring to anyone on CAF) had BETTER realize what is happening and drop to your knees fast and beg for SAVING GRACE, because He
may very well be sovereignly Reprobating you. He does that. He did it to Pharaoh.
It is not wrong or merciless of Him to do so, He is merely respecting your free will to commit willful, unrepentant, mortal sin continuously without remorse.
“Wicked men and imposters, in the last days, will go FROM BAD to WORSE” says the holy Spirit through Saint Paul in Scripture (letters to Timothy, I believe).
That, too, is a very possible indicator of reprobation. If anyone raised and catechized as a catholic, now feels he or she has a right to sin, and that the church has “no right” to tell him or her or anyone else to stop it and repent, then that person is in a very, very dangerous state of hard-hearted apostasy. They need to drop to their knees quickly and pray for the grace of repentance. If they pray the Divine Mercy chaplet, christ has promised to give them such grace, even if they pray it only one time.
This is serious.
God love you all.
Jaypeeto4
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
Hello, kind soul.
I understand your concern for not encouraging doubt among the already scupulous,
but the faithful having completed the penetential rite (assuming you mean the rite within the liturgy itself and not face-to-face sacrament of confession) is not sufficient for those who are in mortal sin by deliberately disobeying Church and Divine Moral Laws.
Click to expand...
A couple of comments:

a) My main concern is not that it aggravates scruples (although that is a relevant concern), but that it disrupts the flow of the mass. As suggested, I believe such catechesis belongs elsewhere (such as in a homily or comments after the closing prayer). The mass is the pinnacle of our devotion and the faithful should be allowed to engage fully in it without unnecessary interruption. The Canon of the Mass should be left uninterupted as much as possible.

b) If you believe that so many Catholics are openly defiant of Church teaching and brazen in their sin, why would such a warning deter them? Surely such people will ignore the warning, while scrupulous people may be unneccessarily worried by it, while the rest of the faithful find their quiet prayer interrupted.
 
underacloud said:
A couple of comments:

a) My main concern is not that it aggravates scruples (although that is a relevant concern), but that it disrupts the flow of the mass. ** As suggested, I believe such catechesis belongs elsewhere (such as in a homily or comments after the closing prayer). The mass is the pinnacle of our devotion and the faithful should be allowed to engage fully in it without unnecessary interruption. The Canon of the Mass should be left uninterupted as much as possible.**

b) If you believe that so many Catholics are openly defiant of Church teaching and brazen in their sin, why would such a warning deter them? Surely such people will ignore the warning, while scrupulous people may be unneccessarily worried by it, while the rest of the faithful find their quiet prayer interrupted.
Click to expand...
Well said. You have made some insightful comments on this subject, and I agree that, while it is important to remind people of the rules about receiving communion, this should be done with sensitivity to the people, including those who are properly disposed, and the liturgy.
 
**If you believe that so many Catholics are openly defiant of Church teaching and brazen in their sin, why would such a warning deter them? Surely such people will ignore the warning, while scrupulous people may be unneccessarily worried by it, while the rest of the faithful find their quiet prayer interrupted. **

Howdy!!
Just to touch on the first statement, it is not a matter of mere “belief” that so many Catholics are openly defiant. Surveys by several organizations over the past few years indicate this. (Though my cousin’s wild 98% claim is surely grossly exaggerated).

Why would such a warning deter them? If it deters just one or two, it is worth it.
Remember, in Ezekiel, it is stated clearly by God that if He declares that the wicked man will surely die (for his serious sins) and the one anointed to warn him fails to, or refuses to warn him, the wicked man will still die in his sins, but God will hold the teacher accountable for his blood. That’s serious.
And in nearly all parishes, even orthodox ones, this warning is not given at all, ever,
not even during the homily (or “sermon” if you prefer). Not ever.
I only ever heard that warning given at St. Michael’s. That was nearly 20 years ago.
It has literally been THAT LONG since I have ever heard that warning EVER given.
At any point in the liturgy. In any parish.
It would be great if there could be catechism studies, etc, at the churches at which
the congregants/parishoners are warned, there instead of at mass, in the strongest possible terms not to receive communion in a state of unrepented serious sins ((though that would worry scrupulous members of the CLASS, too. Worrying the scrupulous is basically unavoidable, unless we want the church to totally shut up, and none of us (at least on CAF) wants that.))
It is my experience for many years that the the time after the “Lamb of God” prayer, concluding with the Grant us Peace and Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof…" prayer, follows immediately with the communion line, which at Sunday masses is, in the parishes I have attended, always accompanied by a SONG, which I find greatly distracting when I am trying to pray AFTER receiving. Forget trying to meditate in the communion line. Those who can accomplish this are people I would greatly admire, cuz I can’t find time to meditate much while coming forward, which occurs IMMEDIATELY after “only say the word, and my Soul shall be healed.”
Nobody is quietly praying, they are standing up and waiting to enter the aisle and process down toward the altar. This is when that priest’s warning occured, just before the people stood, seconds before.

I really believe that not giving a final warning to people, some of whom may be about to commit a sin of sacrilege, is more important than worrying an overly scrupulous person ((who is going to worry anyway)) or interrupting quiet prayer, which, in my experience, is not occuring at this particular moment, and which the song often distracts anyway.
((especially when you have an overly zealous but well-meaning music director who likes to zealously jabber, even encouraging people to take the paperback songbook with them while they walk toward the altar, and sing as they go, and tuck the book into their armpit so they can receive communion, but that’s another matter)
I think that warning is very important, and getting today’s Catholics into
adult catechism-refresher classes is not something I have heard of TOO many parishes having TOO much success accomplishing. Most of us attend Sunday services only.
(( Although now that I work closer to home, I try to attend evening mass on weekdays as
often as possible. What a wonderful experience )).
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
Howdy!!
Just to touch on the first statement, it is not a matter of mere “belief” that so many Catholics are openly defiant. Surveys by several organizations over the past few years indicate this. (Though my cousin’s wild 98% claim is surely grossly exaggerated).
Click to expand...
While many Catholics may complete various surveys indicating that they disagree with or do not follow Church teaching, it does not follow that these survey figures would represent the church-going Catholics in any given parish. Regardless, I don’t disagree that the faithful should be instructed in such matters, I just disagree with the timing.

In much the same way, it is important for the faithful to give to the plate when they can, but it’s distasteful for the priest to harp on about it every week. It’s important that the fiathful receive Eucharist in a worthy state, but I don’t think being admonished every week is the answer.

Anyway, we’ve each presented our opinions. I’ll leave it there and wish you all the best. Oh, and sorry if I hijacked your thread at all.
 
At our Easter Vigil celebration, we had unbaptized, those baptized in another denomination, and those baptized Catholic but not confirmed and no FHC.

We started with baptizing the unbaptized, they were baptized. Then then those baptized in another church, made a profession of faith, then we moved to confirming all of them, and then to the FHC.

None of it was done by the Bishop, the parish had dispensation for the priests to do so, as there would have been no church big enough if it had to be all the candidates in one building.

You are likely just fine. Ask for a copy of your certificate, it will have all the sacraments dispensed that night.
 
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