Another "should I attend a wedding" with a twist

[Sheeniac]

I would go, and use your presence as a time to pray for them. Your husband does have a point - it isn’t that simple. If he intends on going, I think you should go to.

 

[MilesXpisti]

This is not the same situation at all as the OP was asking about. You were Catholic, the couple being discussed were/are not. They are not bound to live under the rules of the Catholic Church, (annullment) before re-marriage, unless they marry a Catholic in the Catholic Church. You can say that they must still live under the 10 commandments… perhaps in their consciences they are. You do not know about the previous marriages. We don’t know enough about the circumstances, previous marriages, their beliefs, etc. to be condemning them. A previous poster deemed my post as un-christian…no, I am christian through and through. I have been Catholic all my life (all 67 years)and believe that although I love my faith and try to live it, others can and will go to heaven living their beliefs and following their conscience. We cannot see inside another mans soul. Leave that to Jesus. Show kindess and love and pray that the couple is blessed by God. Amen!!

Love and peace,
Mom of 5

I’m not condemning. I hope sincerely that they have made arrangements to have their previous marriages annulled and that they live as devout and holy life as can be had outside the bounds of Holy Mother Church. But in this instance, I don’t see how it could be anything other than giving occasion to scandal. If this were the first marriage for both, then fine. Since it’s not, better the politely decline and not risk causing scandal.

 

[az_4_faith]

No one is free to enter into marriage if a valid marriage still exists. Unless a spouse has died, the bonds of marriage are still in place, unless an annullment has been sought and granted.
To act otherwise is cause for scandal. This has nothing to do with “feeling bad” or “hurting feelings” or “being judgmental”. The sacrament of marriage is a public act and has public effects on those who enter into the sacrament and those around them.

At one time, no marriage outside of the Catholic Church was considered valid. That changed about 40 years ago, when the Church recognized that Grace did exist in some of the sacraments (marriage and baptism) in some of the Churches outside the Catholic Church, particularly amongst our separated brothers and sisters in the Protestant Churches.

With that being said, unless there is knowledge that affects the bride and groom’s circumstances, i.e. death of a spouse, annullment, and the fact that they’re marrying in a protestant church that allows divorce and remarriage, we are only led to conclude that they’re not free to marry. This applies to all Christians, not just Catholics. If either has a living spouse, they are entering into an adulterous relationship. Just because it is Methodist, doesn’t change GOD’s law.

When we are asked to attend a wedding, we are all witnesses to a sacrament. One can’t witness a sacrament if the conditions present render it invalid. It’s just pretend. Remember, this is a Christian Church, not the marriage of two folks in a public park by a civil official, or wherever else.

If the guests don’t know if the husband and wife are free to marry, they should ask. Otherwise, stay home, express regrets and let God take care of it. We must be living witness of our faith, even when it is uncomfortable.

 

[mosher]

This is not the same situation at all as the OP was asking about. You were Catholic, the couple being discussed were/are not. They are not bound to live under the rules of the Catholic Church, (annullment) before re-marriage, unless they marry a Catholic in the Catholic Church. You can say that they must still live under the 10 commandments… perhaps in their consciences they are. You do not know about the previous marriages. We don’t know enough about the circumstances, previous marriages, their beliefs, etc. to be condemning them. A previous poster deemed my post as un-christian…no, I am christian through and through. I have been Catholic all my life (all 67 years)and believe that although I love my faith and try to live it, others can and will go to heaven living their beliefs and following their conscience. We cannot see inside another mans soul. Leave that to Jesus. Show kindess and love and pray that the couple is blessed by God. Amen!!

Love and peace,
Mom of 5

My statement that your opinion was not consistent with the faith is not necessarily a reflection on your character but rather is a reflection on your proper understanding of the teachings of the Church. “Time in grade” as a Catholic does not equate to understanding. In this case you are in error not only in the instance of the understanding of the Sacrament of Matrimony but now also on the nature of salvation.

While you are correct that in the end it is Christ who judges it is not correct to say that we allow people to do what they want until their judgment. This is a lack of authentic love for the other. Authentic love calls to conversion to the True Faith and authentic love hold people accountable to truth - not their perception of truth.

In this instance we have two persons that are baptized and thus when two baptized individuals contract marriage it is assumed that it is valid. If they separate and one or both try to contract marriage to another person without determining that their previous “marriage” was valid or not it is assumed that this new union is null. Thus, in this circumstance this new union that is being contracted is an act of adultery and is a scandal against the sanctity of marriage. And while you are correct that Canon Law does not bind those who are not under the direct jurisdiction of the Church that does not mean that they are absolved from the Christian reality of the indisoluability of the Sacrament of Matrimony regardless of their particular Ecclesial Communion or Denomination. For this reason the marriage tribunal of a diocese will hear cases for protestants in many jurisdiction.

In this case it is enough to know that the two baptized persons have contracted marriage in the past and are attempting to contract marriage now without seeking nullity of the previous contracts. Because of the public nature of matrimony this is enough information to know that this is a scandal and should be avoided by the faithful.

Also, on the notion of salvation. It is not enough to say that if a person lives their own faith and follow their conscience that they will be saved. Rather, salvation is through Christ alone through the instrumentality of His Church. While it is not strictly necessary to be a “Catholic” to attain salvation it is not correct to assume that the precepts of another faith are efficacious unto salvation. Rather, a person can be saved in spite of their incorrect faith through degrees of ignorance and not just by following their conscience. The primacy of the conscience so often spoken about is a poor understanding of the Church who stated that it must be a “well formed conscience” as it is possible to have a malformed conscience. Following a malformed conscience is a violation against the natural moral law and will not lead a person to right actions and as such will not lead a person to salvation.

 

[az_4_faith]

Mosher,

Well stated, well put.

 

[Mom_of_5]

Mosher,

We DON’T KNOW if they are baptized…we only know that they are getting married in the Methodist church. Many times couples choose a church to be married in, for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with religion!!. We also know that they were previously married, everything else is being assumed !!! I know my religion very well, I can read and still able to make good decisions!! Thank you!!!

Mom of 5

 

[thechrismyster]

To answer some questions:

They are not Catholic.

They are being married in a Methodist Church.

I am pretty sure that they have not received decrees, since they are not Catholic.

not everyone out there is Catholic.
If they aren’t sharing our beliefs, why do we hold them to our standards? why do we have the right to hold ANYONE to our standards. Christ said the Father would sift the wheat from the chaff… he didn’t tell us to pontificate at every turn and become junior farmers judging the hearts of men.

I think there are a lot of people who, although they think they standfast in righteousness with the Lord, are really just using these occasions to grandstand. unknowingly… but going to a wedding is not scandalizing anyone.

thats my 2cents… i don’t see the big deal with attending. but then again, i like to leave it up to the other person to decide their relationship with God. I don’t judge. God told us not to.

i’m all about building Catholic bridges, not making judgemental fences.

 

[Listener]

I am of the opinion that staying away from a wedding will cause hard feelings. Of course, if you don’t know someone very well and don’t feel like going, you can just send your regrets.

Here is the way I see it - a Catholic who is divorced can get an annulment. I don’t think that too many other churches do annulments, so what are people who aren’t Catholic supposed to do if they want to get married again? They certainly wouldn’t be bound by the rules of the Catholic Church.

It is always possible that their prior marriages were invalid because the former spouses were Catholics who got married outside of the Church. In the case of a boss, you may not know too much about his personal life. It may be impossible to find out, and it is probably none of your concern.

If I wanted to go to a wedding, I would just go and give the parties concerned the benefit of the doubt. Since I am not a Canon Lawyer, I would not be qualified to make a judgment about their prior marriages.

On the other hand, if there was some big scandal involved, and I wouldn’t feel comfortable there, I would stay home.

 

[kage_ar]

Bit of a side note, the rules about attempting re-marriage after divorce are not something the Catholic Church just made up. They are straight from the mouth of Jesus Christ, in the Gospels. This would make them binding on all Christians - not just Catholics. In fact, for many years there were Protestant/Evangelical denominations who would not permit remarriage after divorce. They slowly caved in to society… while the Catholic Church stuck to the word of Christ.

While the Protestants in question may choose to not read/follow those passages - they are plain and clear in Sacred Scripture…

 

[az_4_faith]

1. If this were the first marriage for both parties in a Methodist Church, nothing would prevent a Catholic from attending. No one would be “imposing” their faith on anyone just by their attendance at a wedding in another Church. In fact, I’d go so far to say that this thread wouldn’t even exist if this were the first marriage for both in the Methodist Church. But it isn’t a first marriage for either person.
2. This is about CATHOLICS witnessing an INVALID marriage ceremony. These folks seeking to marry are free to do whatever they want to do regarding their personal life. It’s their choice. (The glory of free will!) God is their only judge. But as CATHOLICS, we are supposed to live OUR faith, witnessing to it daily by our actions. It’s no wonder people of other faiths wonder what Catholics truly believe, because we don’t do a very good job at all in consistently professing our faith through our words AND actions. Half the time, we’re total squishes.
3. These folks have already professed vows to other people. They made promises to other spouses. While it is none of our business what happened to their former marriages, if their spouses are still alive, as Christians, they are still bound to their first spouses. Just because the Methodist church has agreed to marry them, doesn’t mean God’s law is being followed. (If they aren’t religious people, why are they asking for a Christian witness to their marriage? Go to a judge or JP if they aren’t religious people.)
4. Why is it so hard for Catholics to live what they profess in the Creed on Sundays? Yes, we are called to love one another above all things, but that doesn’t mean we just go along with everything, right or wrong, just so people’s “feelings” don’t get hurt.
5. This isn’t about imposing our religion on others. It’s simply about Catholics being consistent with what we are taught. It’s about holding ourselves accountable. You’re not telling these people they have no business getting married, you’ve just not going to cooperate in what OUR Faith tells us is morally unacceptable.
6. Jesus’ and His Father’s teachings are all about preventing our lives from falling into chaos. This is a perfect example of people trying to bend His rules, but no one wants to deal with the consequences as a result (entering into invalid marriages). Like someone else said, this is straight from Jesus’ mouth, not some made-up stuff from the Catholic Church.
7. Wish your boss well and ask to see pictures from the honeymoon. Hopefully, he’ll have more respect for an employee who practices his faith than someone who waffles this way and that. Then pray YOU made the right decision and pray for THEM as a couple. Only God knows the hearts of us all and will be the final Judge.

 

[mosher]

Bingo az 4 faith. It is clear that in this instance it is the obligation of the Catholic per canon law and the natural moral law to not attend this wedding - it really is a simple point.

I wish the Church would restore the law that we could not attend any wedding ceremony that was not catholic. That would make these questions so much easier.