Another take on the placement of the Tabernacle

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I am not ot a very big fan of Michael Vorhis to begin with, but he really loses me with this one- Jesus is front and center at every Mass I have ever attended, on the altar and in the hands of a priest.
I often attend a close by monastary, which has no Tabernacle and does not reserve the Eucharist, are they “Protestant Catholics” also, because the Tabernacle is not front and center?!:eek::rolleyes:

While I do not necessarily disagree with some of what he is saying, his* “conspiracy theories” *are just too over the top for me!!!
IMHO, he gives Traditional Catholics a bad wrap! :mad:
 
Oneofthewomen: I agree Mr. Voris style is harsh, not subtle or refined, he paints with too broad a brush.

But you should know there were officials, high-ranking churchmen and respected theologians and architects who systematically told parish churches to move their Tabernacles out of some misguided (or evil-intentioned) desire not to focus on the Lord already present, during the Mass.

Many innocent people simply listened to this evil advice, they should not be blamed. But it is our responsibility collectively to correct these errors where they persist.
 
But you should know there were officials, high-ranking churchmen and respected theologians and architects who systematically told parish churches to move their Tabernacles out of some misguided (or evil-intentioned) desire not to focus on the Lord already present, during the Mass.
I am not sure I understand you correctly.

I think what you are trying to say is that some people (Chruch officials, etc) wanted the Tabernacle moved so that people would not focus on the Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, as reserved in the Tabernacle, instead of focusing on what was actually going on at Mass.
Why is this a bad thing?
When at Mass, should we not be there mind, body and spirit?
Or is it OK to not pay attention to what is going on during the communal worship of the Chruch to have one’s own private devotion?
 
I prefer that the Tabernacle be front and center. I´ve been to both types of Masses. With Christ right there where I can see Him; my mind drifts less. Either way we should not let the form of the Mass or the design of the Church be an obstacle in worshipping our Lord. I also feel a little irreverant when my Lord is not front and center. God bless:thumbsup:👍👍
 
I am not sure I understand you correctly.

I think what you are trying to say is that some people (Chruch officials, etc) wanted the Tabernacle moved so that people would not focus on the Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, as reserved in the Tabernacle, instead of focusing on what was actually going on at Mass.
Why is this a bad thing?
When at Mass, should we not be there mind, body and spirit?
Or is it OK to not pay attention to what is going on during the communal worship of the Chruch to have one’s own private devotion?
And that would be logical but only during Mass. The (not unintended) result is that it is more difficult for those people who come to Church for devotions outside of Mass or before Mass begins or after Mass. There is an idea, even in some Catholic circles, that things such as adoration, genuflection, silence in the presence of the Tabernacle, etc. are outdated and superstitious.

I used to attend one Church near my office for occasional daily Mass or Stations. If someone wanted to focus on the Tabernacle, he/she would have to turn 180 degrees in the pew since the Tabernacle was in the back of the Church. :mad: Genuflecting there means spinning around, genuflect, then spin back around to enter the pew. Brilliant idea that one (not).
 
So I guess Michael Voris is not encouraging the people not to go to St. Peter’s or any of the other great cathedrals of the world where the tabernacle is not front and center. Maybe he should tell the Pope that he is Protestant for not placing Jesus where he belongs.

Where did this guy study theology anyway? Does he remind anyone else of Bill O’Reilly?
 
And that would be logical but only during Mass. The (not unintended) result is that it is more difficult for those people who come to Church for devotions outside of Mass or before Mass begins or after Mass. There is an idea, even in some Catholic circles, that things such as adoration, genuflection, silence in the presence of the Tabernacle, etc. are outdated and superstitious.
I live in probably one of the most liberal dioceses’ in the US, and I have*** never, ever ***heard anyone say that adoration is out-dated & superstitious.

I have heard some question whether or not some people may have a “superstitious view” of what they believe is accomplished in practices such as adoration, and I have heard a few question wheter or not we are actually adoring the the Body & Blood of Christ, or the monstance the host is placed in (this comment was because of the style of some of the monstrances used in a few parishes, they themselves were huge, but the host that went into them was the smallest one available 3/4" diameter, I believe)

And again, Our Lord is front & center during the Mass, why is there need to have Him anywhere else, and what does that say about places (religious community chapels and other chapels, etc) that do not have Tabernacles? Is Jesus any less present there, because there is no Tabernacle?
 
Or is it OK to not pay attention to what is going on during the communal worship of the Chruch to have one’s own private devotion?
Isn’t it possible, however, that the Tabernacle, being on the center stage, along with the Crucifix, could actually enhance both the communal as well as private devotion at the same time? After all, we’ve learned to live with a whole ton of (other) distractions.
 
So I guess Michael Voris is not encouraging the people not to go to St. Peter’s or any of the other great cathedrals of the world where the tabernacle is not front and center. Maybe he should tell the Pope that he is Protestant for not placing Jesus where he belongs.

Where did this guy study theology anyway? Does he remind anyone else of Bill O’Reilly?I knew he reminded me of someone…, 😉
👍
 
Our Lord is never a distraction. He is the cause and reason for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass: how could He distract us? It seems to me that our hearts, minds, and even bodies should be constantly focused on the Blessed Sacrament even during Mass, because it is the fruit of the Sacrifice of the Altar, the height and summit of Christian life, and the very reason we’re present at Mass to begin with. Much better than having our minds wander to mere earthly concerns, abuses taking place at Mass, and so on.

I think there is a very deep-seated confusion among those who would move the Blessed Sacrament away from the central portion of the Church, or even into a small side-chapel. A Church is the house of the King: why shouldn’t the King be on His throne, easily accessible to all who enter? Who would think to visit even an earthly king and, finding him in a prominent position, throw him in a closet because he is detracting from his servants or those in a lesser position?

Many times when I’m forced to go to Mass in another parish, there is no tabernacle and I have no idea where Jesus actually is. In that case, I simply bow to the altar and tell Jesus, “I have no idea where you are, but here I am anyway!”

A sad time we live in, when our Churches are deliberately trying to hide Jesus because he distracts us from the priest, or the choir, or whatever else. Maybe they need to learn their place and Who it is they’re working for.
 
***Isn’t it possible, however, that the Tabernacle, being on the center stage, along with the Crucifix, could actually enhance both the communal as well as private devotion at the same time? ***After all, we’ve learned to live with a whole ton of (other) distractions.
Yes I believe that it is possible, but I also believe that this is not what Michael Vorhis was saying in his segment, particularly with the comments made from timestamp 2:04-2:50

All I see & hear in this video is a very angry man, painting with very wide strokes, all that he does not like in the Church today.
My opinion of MV is that he is less about what is right for the Church and much more about what ***he thinks ***is correct?
Sounds to me like the same kind of attitude he accuses “progressives & liberals” of. 🤷
 
I live in probably one of the most liberal dioceses’ in the US, and I have*** never, ever ***heard anyone say that adoration is out-dated & superstitious…
In an article written in 2009, Father Richard McBrien, Professor of Theology at University of Notre Dame University, wrote:

Now that most Catholics are literate and even well-educated, the Mass is in the language of the people (i.e, the vernacular), and its rituals are relatively easy to understand and follow, there is little or no need for extraneous eucharistic devotions. The Mass itself provides all that a Catholic needs sacramentally and spiritually.

Eucharistic adoration, perpetual or not, is a doctrinal, theological, and spiritual step backward, not forward.

Here is a link to the entire article, written in 2009:

ncronline.org/blogs/essays-theology/perpetual-eucharistic-adoration

I don’t feel the same way Fr. McBrien does, but is it any wonder Catholics feel confused about these things.
 
So I guess Michael Voris is not encouraging the people not to go to St. Peter’s or any of the other great cathedrals of the world where the tabernacle is not front and center. Maybe he should tell the Pope that he is Protestant for not placing Jesus where he belongs.

Where did this guy study theology anyway? Does he remind anyone else of Bill O’Reilly?
A sad time we live in, ***when our Churches are deliberately trying to hide Jesus ***because he distracts us from the priest, or the choir, or whatever else. Maybe they need to learn their place and Who it is they’re working for.
:confused::confused::confused:

Thoma25- did you actually read Joannm’s post- St. Peter’s Tabernacle is not, nor has it ever been located “front & center”. Is the Vatican trying to hide Jesus?

here we go with more conspiracy theories…:rolleyes:
 
I agree with Michael Voris. The Tabernacle belongs behind or at the altar.
 
While it is a given that everyone has opinions about this, one way or the other, I believe that, for the US, this is the definitive answer to the question of where the tabernacle is and why, my emphasis added.
The Place for the Reservation of the Most Holy Eucharist
  1. In accordance with the structure of each church and legitimate local customs, ***the Most Blessed Sacrament should be reserved in a tabernacle in a part of the church that is truly noble, prominent, readily visible, beautifully decorated, and suitable for prayer.***The one tabernacle should be immovable, be made of solid and inviolable material that is not transparent, and be locked in such a way that the danger of profanation is prevented to the greatest extent possible. Moreover, it is appropriate that, before it is put into liturgical use, it be blessed according to the rite described in the Roman Ritual.
  1. It is more in keeping with the meaning of the sign that the tabernacle in which the Most Holy Eucharist is reserved not be on an altar on which Mass is celebrated.
    Consequently, it is preferable that the tabernacle be located
    , according to the judgment of the Diocesan Bishop,
    a. ***Either in the sanctuary, apart from the altar of celebration, in a form and place more appropriate, not excluding on an old altar no longer used for celebration ***(cf. above, no. 303);
    b. ***Or even in some chapel suitable for the faithful’s private adoration and prayer ***and which is organically connected to the church and readily visible to the Christian faithful.
  1. In accordance with traditional custom, near the tabernacle a special lamp, fueled by oil or wax, should be kept alight to indicate and honor the presence of Christ.
  1. In no way should all the other things prescribed by law concerning the reservation of the Most Holy Eucharist be forgotten.
Now, we could debate all day what exactly what a “noble, prominent, visible, etc., etc, etc… means, and again get dozens, if not hundreds of different POV as to what is “right”, but it is apparent to me that the Church never intended the tabernacle to be a prominent focus during the Mass.

@ PattyDay-
I had forgotten about that article,
which brought up quite a stir in my sacramental theology class (in a school sponsored by my very liberal diocese),
as most of us thought Fr. McBrien was way off base
and a few of us thought he was spot on! 😉
However, after much debate we did agree that the attitude by ***some people ***that if the tabernacle is not front & center, that the belief in the “Real Presence” is not front & center, and the blaming of every ill in the Church on such placement, is a very real problem in a lot of places.
And it is this attitude, I believe, Michael Vorhis is helping to perpetuate with his diatribe.😦
 
Where the body of Christ is located during Mass, is a concern of mine, but not a grave concern. What is right should be reserved to individual conscience. As for me, I just feel better and am closer to God when his body is close to me and I can see where it is. If my Church changed the location of the tabernacle tomorrow, I would still go worship. It would take some effort on my part not to be distracted from the Mass. God bless:thumbsup:👍👍
 
:confused::confused::confused:

Thoma25- did you actually read Joannm’s post- St. Peter’s Tabernacle is not, nor has it ever been located “front & center”. Is the Vatican trying to hide Jesus?

here we go with more conspiracy theories…:rolleyes:
Oneofthewomen,

I’m referring to our local Churches, in which case the ideal is to have the Tabernacle in a central position and easily accessible to everyone. In the case of Cathedrals and the like, it is an entirely different matter.

In the norms you previously quoted, it is explicitly stated that the Tabernacle should be in a prominent place, or reserved in an appropriate location such as a side-chapel that is easily accessible. Many small Churches have no prominent or easily accessible side chapel or old altar. In my parish, before our current priest came in, the tabernacle was moved around to such an extent that no one knew where it was. As our current Father said, “It might as well have had wheels on it!” Finally our Bishop ordered that it be restored to its proper location.

It isn’t conspiratorial in the least. If you haven’t noticed the intrusion of the modernist heresy in recent decades, then you’re either living in the most theologically conservative parish in the world, or you aren’t looking very hard.
 
Maybe I can help here, since it was the founder of my order who started this mess in the first place. 😃

The tabernacle was first placed on the main altar by St. Francis of Assisi. Prior to his arrival on the scene, the tabernacle was never in the main church. We have to remember during the 13th century, parishes were really monastery churches or cathedrals. They were not what we know them today, especially in the Americas. Even in Europe, they still are very different from our notion of a parish in the Americas.

Someone mentioned that they attend mass at a monastery and there is no tabernacle. This is correct. Most monastic orders do not keep a tabernacle in the same place where they worship. The tabernacle is in a separate chapel or a side chapel.

Because the Franciscans did not have the large buildings that the monks did, we did not have several spaces available. The mass, the Liturgy of the Hours and private prayer all took place in one space. Francis of Assisi, who was very devoted to the Eucharist, very much wanted the Blessed Sacrament present in the chapel. As was the custom of the time, the tabernacle was very ornate and beautiful, except that it was always in a separate space.

Since the friars did not have the luxury of space, the tabernacle was placed in the front center of the sanctuary. It was usually on a pedestal directly behind the main altar. Franciscan altars were not attached to the back wall. That’s a Roman thing, not a Franciscan custom. In those churches built by the Roman clergy and later handed over to the friars, the altars were built into the wall. That was not the case with our chapels and is still not the case. If you look at the altars at both chapels on EWTN, the friars’ chapel and the nun’s chapel at the shrine, the tabernacle sits on a pedestal behind the main altar.

When the mass was celebrated facing ad orientem, you faced the tabernacle. When the option came to face the people, we did not have to move our tabernacles or our altars. They were never attached. The friar-priest simply slips between the tabernacle and the altar.

Because our order spread so quickly and so far, the custom of the tabernacle at the center of the sanctuary also spread through Europe and later through the Franciscan missions. Other religious communities and diocesan bishops adopted the custom and it eventually became the norm for parishes. That’s how the tabernacle came to be on the main altar. It was never intentional. It was one of those things that happened out of a great devotion to the Eucharist and a lack of space. The tabernacle and the mass had to share the same space. It was never the intention of St. Francis or the friars to make the tabernacle part of the mass. That’s why it was never a problem for the friar-priest to slip between the tabernacle and the altar, turning his back on the tabernacle during the mass. As I said, the tabernacle was not part of the mass nor has it ever been so.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with having it front and center. The norm is that it should be prominent, beautiful and reverently displayed. That was always the case, even in the monasteries where they kept it in a separate space. It is also the rule that the tabernacle not be where there is a lot of traffic. That’s why you do not find it in most cathedrals and basilicas such as St. Peter’s or the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception. It’s in a side chapel. You don’t want tours walking past the Most Blessed Sacrament.

The Poor Clares keep it front and center because the shrine is dedicated to the Blessed Sacrament. It makes perfect sense and people know that they come there to adore the Sacrament. St. Peter’s has a different purpose and so does the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception.

In closing, many theologians believed that since the focus of the mass is the altar of sacrifice and the pulpit, the tabernacle in the front and center of the sanctuary encouraged private Eucharistic devotion during the mass, when the focus should be on the Word, Sacrifice and Communion. The truth is that we can neither substantiate their belief nor disprove it. One would have to be in everyone’s head to know what people are thinking and where they are focusing during the mass. That’s impossible. All that the theologians could offer was an opinion, not a law, because it could not be proven or disproven. I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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