Another thread on abuses; the ten most common (supposedly)

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I’ve only seen about five of these, so I must consider myself fortunate. 😃
 
Sadly, I have been witness to 9 out of 10. Some rarely (liturgical dancing) and some with regularity (changing the texts of Mass to avoid calling God “Him” or “Father”) 😦
 
I have seen about 6 or 7, but not all at the same parish, thank goodness. A few at my current one though. Nothing major. One priest did wear a light blue vestment. :eek: I didn’t know he couldn’t…
 
I’m afraid I find it impossible to imagine that God would take offence to blue vestments worn in honour of his Mother, no matter what the “rules”…and scarcely “a scandal”…
 
Gilly_flower said:
I’m afraid I find it impossible to imagine that God would take offence to blue vestments worn in honour of his Mother, no matter what the “rules”…and scarcely “a scandal”…
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He might take offense at disobedience to the legitimate authority of the Church.
 
Gilly_flower said:
I’m afraid I find it impossible to imagine that God would take offence to blue vestments worn in honour of his Mother, no matter what the “rules”…and scarcely “a scandal”…
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Phemie said:
He might take offense at disobedience to the legitimate authority of the Church.
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So where does that leave us? I can see both sides of this. 🤷
 
psalm90 said:
…are here catholicsay.com/the-ten-most-common-liturgical-abuses/

(look down the page) have to get here quick before they change the page

I think the most common abuse I run into is people talking in church before Mass and during Mass, which is not even one of the top ten.
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I’ve seen a few of these, plus others not mentioned here but mentioned in Redemptionis Sacramentum.

On that is bugging me recently is my new Pastor’s insertion of “parents” into the EP at the point where he prays, “Remember also our brothers and sisters who have fallen asleep in the hope of the resurrection…” as if in this case "brothers and sisters did not comprise everyone who has died.

Right after the Sanctus, before he starts the EP, he launches into a long list of intentions for which we should pray (many of which are already included in the EP). It really interrupts the flow of the Mass. He could just as easily address these things before the sign of the Cross at the beginning of Mass.
 
Irishmom2 said:
So where does that leave us? I can see both sides of this. 🤷
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This made me think of 1 Samuel 15. This is what Samuel says to Saul about the importance of obedience.
Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the Lord?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
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Genesis 3 The Fall of Man
3 Now the serpent was more subtle than any other wild creature that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree of the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate.
 
I’ve never understood the purpose of lists such as this. Seems to me to be the liturgical equivalent of “wallowing in Watergate,” to use a phrase from the past. It’s one thing to speak to the pastor - or bishop - when one observes specific issues in a specific parish, but a generic, non-actionable list such as this is just sound and fury for its own sake.
 
Irishmom2 said:
I have seen about 6 or 7, but not all at the same parish, thank goodness. A few at my current one though. Nothing major. One priest did wear a light blue vestment. :eek: I didn’t know he couldn’t…
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I don’t get the blue investment thing either. :confused: my old parish was very, very conservative: mass in Latin, kneeling at a prie dieu for communion, only altar boys, etc- and yet the priest was very Marian and wore blue vestments on Marian feast days.
 
This may be a new article on that site but I’m wondering if it’s an old paper.

If you look at the documents he references I see none past 1998 (I stand to be corrected) and he’s definitely working from the 1974 GIRM, because that’s the one that’s in the Liturgical Press’s volume “The Documents on the Liturgy.” Just to be sure, I just checked my old copy of the 1974 Canadian Sacramentary. His GIRM numbers match.
 
wild_thing said:
I don’t get the blue investment thing either. :confused: my old parish was very, very conservative: mass in Latin, kneeling at a prie dieu for communion, only altar boys, etc- and yet the priest was very Marian and wore blue vestments on Marian feast days.
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The GIRM says that the colours are limited to white, green, red, violet, black, gold and silver and dictates when each is to be used.

As I understand it, blue may only be worn by special privilege which has been granted to a few major Marian shrines for specific Marian feasts and to Spain and some of it’s former colonies to wear on the feast of the Immaculate Conception.
 
I just noticed he refers to Pope John Paul II in the present tense so it’s definitely an old paper.
 
I think it’s referring to an older version of the GIRM. The old GIRM from 1975 (ewtn.com/library/CURIA/GIRM.HTM) states:
  1. The homily is given at the chair or at the lectern.
So I think this was accurate when it was written, but is now outdated. As you said, the current GIRM 97 has nothing to do with the homily.
 
tseleehw said:
I think it’s referring to an older version of the GIRM. The old GIRM from 1975 (ewtn.com/library/CURIA/GIRM.HTM) states:
  1. The homily is given at the chair or at the lectern.
So I think this was accurate when it was written, but is now outdated. As you said, the current GIRM 97 has nothing to do with the homily.
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There is a long-standing custom (yes, truly “custom” under the law) that goes back more than 100 years…

The homily (when it was given) was often given from outside the Sanctuary. In fact, in many, many churches, standing in the nave was the regular practice.

Although most (in the U.S.) have been removed post-Vatican II, it was quite common to see “preaching pulpits” in Catholic churches. Those were the elevated pulpits built in the midst of the nave. The purpose was to help the priest project his voice in the days before microphones. Many of these had elaborate staircases and were quite elaborate in themselves. Some of these still exist, and some are still being used. For example, the one in St Patrick’s Cathedral in NY is still there and still used (but not exclusively for preaching). I can’t imagine anyone who would think that preaching from there would be an “abuse.”

So the idea that the preacher “cannot” leave the sanctuary during the homily is actually quite strange and contradictory to Catholic liturgical tradition. Only someone who is unaware of this (rather common) practice would call it an abuse. The CAF posters here have it right.
 
Tarpeian_Rock said:
I’ve never understood the purpose of lists such as this.
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I absolutely agree.

Is it really my job to memorize every nuance of how Mass is supposed to be celebrated, and to then attend Mass with an eye towards analyzing everything and everyone to make sure they conform? What am I supposed to do when they don’t? Fire the Priest and tell him to go get lost somewhere? Tell the Bishop and, if he doesn’t listen, call up the Pope and tell him to stop dilly-dallying, for my parish is in need of correction? Maybe I can hold up signs during Mass, “Stop abusing the rubrics, you bunch of liturgically illiterate dolts!”

I remember Fr. Joseph Fessio, S.J., of Ignatius Press, was once asked whether or not he saw a lot of liturgical abuses. “Of course not!” he replied. “I’m usually the celebrant.”

Well, most of us aren’t lucky enough to have such a Priest in our area. We do the best we can.

In fact, rather than writing lists, how many of us are actually praying to God to send holy priests into His vineyard? I know that I rarely do so.
 
I’ve only seen #1 and #8, which I thought were extremely annoying. I actually think of a different adjective for them, which would be inappropriate here. I’ve been to Masses which were interrupted due to emergency when an attendee fainted and the priest stopped the Mass to make sure they were fine.
 
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