Another update

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tinamn

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Hello all

I think it was June when I last posted an update. I made several attempts to start restoring the relationship with my husband, but he wasn’t really having it. He talked with the priest at my church, as well as the pastor at his church. I made an appointment for marital counseling but they basically said he needed to get treatment for his alcoholism before we could try to work on our marriage.

I had told him back in March that if he brought alcohol into the house again, I would go down to the courthouse and file papers (mostly so that I would have a way to get the children away from him - not to give up on the relationship, but to get some normalcy back into their lives). I don’t know why I didn’t follow through with that on the multiple times he brought it back into the house. It’s one thing to say and another thing to do, is all I can come up with.

Anyway, he made an absolute fool of himself with his family over the 4th of July - probably should have been in the hospital he was so intoxicated. He returned to his family 2 weeks later for a memorial service for a distant relative, and repeated the process. He came home and was fired from his job. According to him they said it was a “business decision” but I have no doubt it was due to the alcohol, as he had the situation where my sister sent a video of him during the workday to his employer, plus he had stopped going in to work period (just worked from home). While he mostly drank on weekends, he was basically “tapering off” to prevent withdrawal during the week, and would miss deadlines frequently.

On my birthday (which was also the day before I had to drive my 5 yr old 3.5 hours to find out why she had been bleeding for 3 weeks), he decided he needed to celebrate. He went to Mass completely wasted. Had the nerve to sit and talk with the priest, while drunk, and tell him how he’s been doing “so well” with his recovery, etc etc. His pastor came to our home a few days later and basically told him everything our family and I have been saying for years, and he kept trying to pin it on us. We eventually got him into a detox program, where he was put on a 72 hour hold. He hated it, swore he’d never drink again. I told his pastor I figured it would be 3-4 weeks, as he was starting a new job and he’d end up saying he was stressed and having trouble adjusting.

Right on the money 3.5 weeks later, he insisted he was just going to get some 3.2 beer to watch the game on Sunday. Bought two 12-packs, drank them all in about 12 hours, drove drunk to the liquor store and bought tons of vodka, and ended up not working for 3 days. I met with a friend for dinner that Tuesday, and she helped me find my resolve. I went home and told him he needed to leave - that he could find somewhere else to do his drinking.

He decided to go into (name removed by moderator)atient treatment. I am not confident that it will work, as he is still saying things like “well, I went 3 weeks without drinking.” Or “I’ve been sober more than I’ve been drunk the last 6 months” or “Why doesn’t anyone recognize that I’m trying?” and to top it all off, he yelled at me for not being supportive of him because I didn’t want to hug him (when he reeked and had vomit on his shirt and hadn’t showered/changed in 5 days). Granted I had taken a day off work to call all kinds of rehab, the VA, try to arrange benefits through his work, packed his suitcase, organized a ride for him to the rehab… but his work was more supportive because they told him his job would be waiting for him (pretty sure they can’t fire him because he is a veteran).

Anyhow, this is as much a vent as it is an update. I am struggling with my feelings overall, because it’s been several long years of rollercoaster, and right now I would prefer to just file and be done with it. I feel guilty thinking that way, especially as he is in treatment, so it would appear he is making an effort, but the other issues don’t go away even when the alcoholism is treated (which obviously is going to be longer than just his 30 day treatment). He feels he has every right to return home in 30 days, and have his “life” and his family back, but I would just like more than 30 days. He thinks 30 days is plenty. And he has “needs” he expects to be met as well.

Prayers would be welcomed. I will be speaking with my priest, and have set up counseling for myself. My children have been offered counseling at school.
 
So sorry to hear. I will offer you and your family up at the next Mass. I also think you’re doing the right think by filing NOW. If nothing else, it will send a clear message to him that you will not tolerate the drinking any longer. It may shake him enough to help him stay sober.:hug1:
 
Re: filing NOW

1.) Is this the right reason for him to sober up? I mean, in the long run, will it come back to bite him/us because he felt forced into treatment, and he will resent me and the rehab isn’t done because he finally knows he needs to do it?

2.) Is it fair to file while he is in treatment? He kept saying to me that if I couldn’t promise that we would be here, that he could come back, that he might as well go find his gun and blow his brains out. When they asked about thoughts of suicide he said no, but I was on the phone and told them what he had just said. Then that turned into “well, how can I focus on my recovery if I’m constantly thinking about how I won’t have a family to come back to?” Part of me thinks this is his manipulation - he’s looking for a reason for failure (us not being “here” when he gets done), but the other part of me thinks… well, when someone is going to this drastic of steps, maybe it’s really not the right time to go down this road.

He keeps saying I need to learn to forgive and forget… I know I once heard a sermon about that “forget” part not meaning what people think it does, because it would be foolish to “forget” that the thief is a thief (for example) and I think this is the same thing. I also think… forgiveness doesn’t always look the way we want it to. We want someone to forgive and everything to go back to normal. Forgiveness can mean letting go, but healing doesn’t always entail going back to the situation that caused problems to begin with… right?? Or am I way off base here?
 
You can only do what is best for you and your children. Obviously, treatment JUST for himself/your marriage hasn’t worked for him. Sometimes, an addict needs a jolt to make them see the severity of their addiction. Filing for divorce is a last resort, especially for a practicing Catholic, but IMHO (and I’m NOT an expert) this is a last restort situation. You need to protect your kids and yourself. He’s already lost one job over his drinking. He’s already caused all kinds of havoc in the house. Filing is for multiple reasons: to send him a firm message (because to this point, he’s been assured that you’ll put up with his shenanigans) that his addiction is NOT okay; to protect you and your kids legally and to protect you financially. I’m sure there are other reasons I’m not coming up with right now.

If he is threatening to kill himself if you leave, it’s good that he’s at an (name removed by moderator)atient facility while you file, and you can make sure the facility is aware of his threats. They may very well be manipulative only, but it’s better to be safe than sorry when it comes to that.

The Good Lord knows I have my own terrible marriage, but thank God my husband’s addiction doesn’t impair his ability to provide for our family. I wish you peace.
 
Re: filing NOW

*1.) Is this the right reason for him to sober up? I mean, in the long run, will it come back to bite him/us because he felt forced into treatment, and he will resent me and the rehab isn’t done because he finally knows he needs to do it?

2.) Is it fair to file while he is in treatment?

He keeps saying I need to learn to forgive and forget…
*
FILE NOW – the only way some alcoholics can be convinced to change is for them to hit bottom and lose everything. Your children deserve a home free from his behavior.

Fairness? How ‘fair’ is this situation to you and your children? Since he can’t be a responsible parent as long as he is abusing alcohol, YOU have to put the children’s well being first.

Forgiveness is not a suicide pact – you can forgive him and still not let him back into your life; in fact you will need to forgive for the strength and serenity of your own soul.
 
Rather than file, you might try separating for a year. Live separately, where he must learn to live as a sober person. Go to counseling together, date one another, but live separately. He will have to decide whether he’s going to get sober and stay sober or not, and you and the children will have some protection (by distance) if he fails. And it might serve as a wake up call to him, knowing that the next step would be divorce.

You might ask your pastor or a counselor whether they think that might help.
 
The whole reason for filing is that he constantly throws back that I can’t force him out of his home, or away from his children. He refuses to live separately - I’ve suggested it several times. His new job is a remote position, so he could live with his family. I offered to make sure that we come down to visit him there, but he would have none of it. In his mind there is no other option than to come home and have things be “normal.”
 
The whole reason for filing is that he constantly throws back that I can’t force him out of his home, or away from his children. He refuses to live separately - I’ve suggested it several times. His new job is a remote position, so he could live with his family. I offered to make sure that we come down to visit him there, but he would have none of it. In his mind there is no other option than to come home and have things be “normal.”
I think Sugabee’s got a point. I think filing while he’s in no place to stop you might be the strongest and fastest way out of this. It might just be the thing that breaks his pretend world where he can do no wrong.

I mean unless you actually, really think he’s going to change this time? I mean totally and truly think it?

I’m so sorry you’re in this place. I’m so sorry you’ve got this on you. I wish there was an easier fix than this.

But I always watch for your updates. I always hope for a miracle solve for your situation. I mean you’re sort of special to me. I don’t like the idea of this dragging out any longer than it has to.

I’ll be praying for you and your kids. I really hope your husband turns around for his own sake. But I really wouldn’t tell you with any real sincerity that his cure’s just around the corner. Or that you should wait in the constant hope that he’ll smarten up.

Only tragedy greater than the emotional self-absorption of the alcoholic ever reaches him. I’m so sorry to say this. But you probably need to make that tragedy happen for him.

Peace tinamn.

-Trident
 
Sorry for no response there for a bit; my daughter was in the hospital for a few days.

Trident, I appreciate hearing from your perspective, and also your prayers and everyone else’s.

The current situation is that he’s been there now for a full week. He’s saying all the right things in general, but the problem is - he has told me before that under the threat of losing his children, his family - he will say anything in order for it to go back to normal

As much as I hope that this is IT for him, how am I to know this isn’t the same thing? That he’s not just going through the motions and saying what needs to be said, in order to manipulate his way back to where he can eventually go back to the bottle?

I have not yet filed any paperwork. He swore he would leave treatment because he would “have no reason to go through treatment” if I couldn’t promise we could work on us when he got out. I didn’t promise him that it would go back to normal, but I did say that he needed to go into a sober living facility for awhile after treatment (his counselor agrees) and that while he is there we can talk about where we are at and what would need to happen.

I requested that he not call me for a week, so that I could have time to figure out my thoughts and what I want to see happen through all of this, and he just couldn’t respect that. He was calling my parents and asking them if they could convince me to let him come back. He called his parents and they called me as well. His mom insisted I should let him come back and “just not enable him anymore” (like this has been all my fault all along). It’s a good thing she is 4.5 hours away… I have made sure that I was not enabling him (any more than the fact that just letting him be at home WAS enabling him, but I couldn’t force him out of the house legally so there wasn’t much I could do about that).
 
Sorry for no response there for a bit; my daughter was in the hospital for a few days.

Trident, I appreciate hearing from your perspective, and also your prayers and everyone else’s.

The current situation is that he’s been there now for a full week. He’s saying all the right things in general, but the problem is - he has told me before that under the threat of losing his children, his family - he will say anything in order for it to go back to normal

As much as I hope that this is IT for him, how am I to know this isn’t the same thing? That he’s not just going through the motions and saying what needs to be said, in order to manipulate his way back to where he can eventually go back to the bottle?

I have not yet filed any paperwork. He swore he would leave treatment because he would “have no reason to go through treatment” if I couldn’t promise we could work on us when he got out. I didn’t promise him that it would go back to normal, but I did say that he needed to go into a sober living facility for awhile after treatment (his counselor agrees) and that while he is there we can talk about where we are at and what would need to happen.

I requested that he not call me for a week, so that I could have time to figure out my thoughts and what I want to see happen through all of this, and he just couldn’t respect that. He was calling my parents and asking them if they could convince me to let him come back. He called his parents and they called me as well. His mom insisted I should let him come back and “just not enable him anymore” (like this has been all my fault all along). It’s a good thing she is 4.5 hours away… I have made sure that I was not enabling him (any more than the fact that just letting him be at home WAS enabling him, but I couldn’t force him out of the house legally so there wasn’t much I could do about that).
PLEASE go to Al-Anon ASAP.

You are not alone. All of this manipulative, alcoholic behavior is NOT going to change. It is clear he has no desire or intention to change.

You need help from those who have also gone through this and know the lies for what they are. Al-Anon can help you.
 
Get out now…he will not change unless HE chooses to change. He’s playing you and using other members of the family against you.

Unless and until he hits bottom and loses everything HE WILL NOT CHANGE.

I helped a friend deal with a similar situation, and nothing changed until she stopped enabling the fellow.

Your first responsibility is to your children, this is not the sort of father they need.
 
Get out now…he will not change unless HE chooses to change. He’s playing you and using other members of the family against you.

Unless and until he hits bottom and loses everything HE WILL NOT CHANGE.

I helped a friend deal with a similar situation, and nothing changed until she stopped enabling the fellow.

Your first responsibility is to your children, this is not the sort of father they need.
THIS… I know it hurts, and I know it’s VERY difficult to pull the trigger, but for the sake of your children, you MUST.
 
I do know that nothing I do can affect his drinking; it has to come from him. This is why I told him he could leave - I didn’t give him any ultimatums on going to treatment or anything like that, I just said he could leave and that he needed to decide what he wanted to do, but that he wasn’t going to continue his behaviors around me or the kids.

He keeps begging me to promise to try and work through this for him.

The hard part for me is the guilt I feel for being relieved, and “happy” since he is gone. I know that there shouldn’t be guilt for being relieved that the alcohol problem is removed - it’s really NOT that part of it that I’m feeling guilty about. It’s the relief that he, or… his “personality” is not around. It’s the fact that even being a single parent is a relief from just having him around. That I prefer to have my parents around helping me… that if I’m really honest with myself, I don’t want to try anymore, I just want it to be done (and that doesn’t feel very Catholic/Christian).

I know that people have come back from worse in a marriage, and it makes me feel guilty that I, deep down, don’t want to try. I don’t want to be in a situation where I’m saying “next time you drink, we’re done.” I feel like I’ve gained some strength through all of this, but I’m not positive I’d have the strength to follow through, especially if it were to be something like a year until his next drink (he’d for sure be all over me on that, saying “well, I went a year!!!”). Beyond that… the lack of respect, the manipulation, the laziness/leaving everything to me, the blackmail and dare I say emotional abuse… that hurts. That doesn’t just go away. Obviously I need to keep talking to my priest/counselor, but how do you put a timeline on healing for that??

All of that aside, if I do decide not to file, the things that I’ve posted about (and other things I haven’t) aren’t really an attempt to control him/the drinking. I feel they are a means to protect myself and the children. For example - the sober living situation - I don’t feel like that’s a condition for him to come back; it’s a protection for us, because his sobriety pattern has never lasted for more than 4-6 weeks. Treatment will be 4 weeks, so if he restarts his drinking, it needs to not be around myself or the kids. I will be putting things like this into place - again not as an ultimatum or condition, but as protection.

I hope this all makes sense. The emotions surrounding all of this, in addition to my daughter’s health issues and just in general the stress of doing the single-parent thing “for real” kind of has my head in a perpetually overloaded state.
 
I do know that nothing I do can affect his drinking; it has to come from him. This is why I told him he could leave - I didn’t give him any ultimatums on going to treatment or anything like that, I just said he could leave and that he needed to decide what he wanted to do, but that he wasn’t going to continue his behaviors around me or the kids.

He keeps begging me to promise to try and work through this for him.

The hard part for me is the guilt I feel for being relieved, and “happy” since he is gone. I know that there shouldn’t be guilt for being relieved that the alcohol problem is removed - it’s really NOT that part of it that I’m feeling guilty about. It’s the relief that he, or… his “personality” is not around. It’s the fact that even being a single parent is a relief from just having him around. That I prefer to have my parents around helping me… that if I’m really honest with myself, I don’t want to try anymore, I just want it to be done (and that doesn’t feel very Catholic/Christian).

I know that people have come back from worse in a marriage, and it makes me feel guilty that I, deep down, don’t want to try. I don’t want to be in a situation where I’m saying “next time you drink, we’re done.” I feel like I’ve gained some strength through all of this, but I’m not positive I’d have the strength to follow through, especially if it were to be something like a year until his next drink (he’d for sure be all over me on that, saying “well, I went a year!!!”). Beyond that… the lack of respect, the manipulation, the laziness/leaving everything to me, the blackmail and dare I say emotional abuse… that hurts. That doesn’t just go away. Obviously I need to keep talking to my priest/counselor, but how do you put a timeline on healing for that??

All of that aside, if I do decide not to file, the things that I’ve posted about (and other things I haven’t) aren’t really an attempt to control him/the drinking. I feel they are a means to protect myself and the children. For example - the sober living situation - I don’t feel like that’s a condition for him to come back; it’s a protection for us, because his sobriety pattern has never lasted for more than 4-6 weeks. Treatment will be 4 weeks, so if he restarts his drinking, it needs to not be around myself or the kids. I will be putting things like this into place - again not as an ultimatum or condition, but as protection.

I hope this all makes sense. The emotions surrounding all of this, in addition to my daughter’s health issues and just in general the stress of doing the single-parent thing “for real” kind of has my head in a perpetually overloaded state.
I have been almost exactly where you are. It is very difficult to even think straight under this kind of stress. Finally, a substance abuse counselor told me, “You are enabling him just by staying.”

I left, with the kids, and filed. In my state, you have to file in order to get child support; you might want to check that.

We agreed that if he went an entire year without drinking, we could TALK about reconciliation. Like you, there were all the other issues of manipulation and emotional abuse, so I didn’t really feel as if I’d ever want a life with him. But I also knew it was extremely unlikely he’d go a year without a drink – and it was a week.

I will tell you that this was both the hardest and best time of my life. After being away from him, I could see so much more clearly the damage he had done to me and was doing to our children. Our lives became so much more peaceful, even if we were more financially challenged. And even that turned around – I have more financial security now than I ever did with him, and I know where money is being spent.

Most importantly, my children have thanked me repeatedly for getting them out.

I encourage you to go to Al Anon, and to talk with a lawyer. Your number one priority is protecting your children and yourself.
 
Oh dear one, but you are not protecting yourself or your children. If your children were in any other dangerous situation in life you would get them out of it immediately, that is a mother’s instinct. You are keeping your family here because you think you have power here but you are completely powerless. Your husband has you believing that by “supporting” him he has a stronger chance of remaining sober, this is subtle but look deeper and it suggests that you have some power in this circumstance YOU DON’T.

Alcohol has all the power here, alcohol is in control. Please be assured of my prayers.
I’m confused by what you mean here, as I’m not letting him back in the house. I may be missing something, in which case I appreciate you opening my eyes to it, but I don’t see how insisting he live somewhere else until he can prove himself is me keeping the family in a dangerous situation? Unless the “until he proves himself” is what you mean? I’m still not sure that him proving himself is even just not drinking anymore - there’s so much more to it than the alcohol.
 
Yes I have. They meet once a week, Mondays from 5-6. Unfortunately, with just one income and all of my husband’s current debt, I am not able to pay for a sitter at this time, but I am in contact with them and have a friend who attends who has been talking with me about things as well.
 
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