Another Way of Looking at Homosexuality

[FightingFat]

I found this article which I feel helps to understand the problem of homosexuality in context of the current position society dictates we should all hold (i.e. that we should accept it as “normal”):

albertmohler.com/2010/12/15/so-why-is-incest-wrong/

It struck me that this could be very useful in terms of Catechesis and wanted to share it here. The position most people take (in my experience is to consider that homosexuality is “not hurting anyone” and thus “none of my business”).

I thought it was interesting because the court answer highlighted the importance of family. This case sort of contradicts the current trend to extricate sexual behaviour from the procreative act. It’s all private action that takes place consensually and without the risk of consanguinity! The case caused the courts to consider what exactly constituted the “uck” factor…Could it be our natural moral compass a la GS16?

In the depths of his conscience, man detects a law which he does not impose upon himself, but which holds him to obedience. Always summoning him to love good and avoid evil, the voice of conscience when necessary speaks to his heart: do this, shun that. For man has in his heart a law written by God; to obey it is the very dignity of man; according to it he will be judged.(9) Conscience is the most secret core and sanctuary of a man. There he is alone with God, Whose voice echoes in his depths.(10) In a wonderful manner conscience reveals that law which is fulfilled by love of God and neighbor.(11) In fidelity to conscience, Christians are joined with the rest of men in the search for truth, and for the genuine solution to the numerous problems which arise in the life of individuals from social relationships. Hence the more right conscience holds sway, the more persons and groups turn aside from blind choice and strive to be guided by the objective norms of morality. Conscience frequently errs from invincible ignorance without losing its dignity. The same cannot be said for a man who cares but little for truth and goodness, or for a conscience which by degrees grows practically sightless as a result of habitual sin.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_cons_19651207_gaudium-et-spes_en.html

I also felt is was very interesting in context of CDF teaching, which I read recently before attempting to explain the Church’s teaching on the matter to a young man who asked me about it:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

I would recommend a reading of the whole thing, I found it very useful, but particularly, in n.7 it states:

As in every moral disorder, homosexual activity prevents one’s own fulfilment and happiness by acting contrary to the creative wisdom of God. The Church, in rejecting erroneous opinions regarding homosexuality, does not limit but rather defends personal freedom and dignity realistically and authentically understood.

What do you think?

 

[Barbkw]

Accepting homosexuality as “normal” has and will continue to undermine neccessary family counseling of children who exhibit gender identity disorders.

It is a politically orchestrated fallacy that children are “hard wired” and that it is “normal” for children to negatively react to relationship building with the opposite sex.

narth.com/docs/fitz.html

 

[mgreen77]

Accepting homosexuality as “normal” has and will continue to undermine neccessary family counseling of children who exhibit gender identity disorders.

It is a politically orchestrated fallacy that children are “hard wired” and that it is “normal” for children to negatively react to relationship building with the opposite sex.

narth.com/docs/fitz.html

I’m so confused now. I always thought gay people were really happy as the sex they are, even if some show mannerisms of the opposite sex? I don’t think I’ve ever heard gay people say they want to BE the opposite sex.

 

[FightingFat]

I’m so confused now. I always thought gay people were really happy as the sex they are, even if some show mannerisms of the opposite sex? I don’t think I’ve ever heard gay people say they want to BE the opposite sex.

I think many gay people would like you to think that they are happy, or that they are unhappy because of the prejudice they suffer, but the reality is that they are unhappy because they are living a lifestyle which contradicts the design of life.

youtube.com/watch?v=zHG2LJGfEdw

 

[mgreen77]

I think many gay people would like you to think that they are happy, or that they are unhappy because of the prejudice they suffer, but the reality is that they are unhappy because they are living a lifestyle which contradicts the design of life.

youtube.com/watch?v=zHG2LJGfEdw

Well, by “happy” I just meant I thought gay people don’t want to change sexes, even if some of them mimick mannerisms of the opposite sex. I assume a gay man wants to have sex with a man AS a man, not as a woman.

So this Narth stuff is confusing since it’s saying gays have Gender Identity Disorder.

 

[kozlosap]

I think many gay people would like you to think that they are happy, or that they are unhappy because of the prejudice they suffer, but the reality is that they are unhappy because they are living a lifestyle which contradicts the design of life.

youtube.com/watch?v=zHG2LJGfEdw

Are you gay? As a straight person I certainly cannot in my wildest imagination “know” how the average gay person feels.

 

[Barbkw]

So this Narth stuff is confusing since it’s saying gays have Gender Identity Disorder.

I agree, the psychological disorders that causes homosexuality are confusing.

Perhaps because heterosexuals are so “straight” in our sexual orientation and our thinking.

Gender identity disorders branch out to include male on male, female on female, bisexuality, transgendered male to female, trans female to male, trans half and half, cross dressers, etc.

 

[FightingFat]

Are you gay? As a straight person I certainly cannot in my wildest imagination “know” how the average gay person feels.

You can listen to what they say though, can’t you?

 

[GloriousOrder]

I have known very firmly in my heart that I have had S.S.A. since I was 12 (being 22 now). Whatever it came about as a result of, it certainly felt like a natural urge - until I started reading Aquinas. Once he had convinced me that God exists, that great saint gave me a framework of logic. He argued that everything has a specific place, an order or hierarchy in the Universe. All things have proper objects, material objects, goals, meanings, and positions under the one true God.

Since all things can be classified and understood through the natural light of reason (except things pertaining only to faith), it followed that even homosexuality can be understood. The more I delved into Aquinas’ moral theology about right order, the more I doubted the fitting nature of my homosexual urges. Now, I’ve been convinced that it is not rightly ordered with the generative faculties God gave us as human beings. Homosexual lusts and acts simply do not fit with the grand universe of laws and workings that God has made.

Just look at sexual intercourse: sex is not for pleasure first, nor for love primarily, but for children. Love and pleasure may come into it, but they are not essential to the ontological divine purpose, which is to bring more souls into the world for the praise of the Lord. As homosexuality cannot naturally acquire this end except through heterosexual proxies, it must be considered disordered and quite pointless. The entire point of gay relations is mutual love (if serious) and/or pleasure (if less serious), not children.

These feelings are temptations from the Enemy. Only the manly valour of St. Michael and the virtuous chastity of St. Mary can help us, with fortitude and hope, to overcome them. Having been afflicted with same-sex attractions for years now (without knowing it was an affliction), every day I am acutely aware of the damage they do to my soul.

 

[mgreen77]

Gender identity disorders branch out to include male on male, female on female, bisexuality, transgendered male to female, trans female to male, trans half and half, cross dressers, etc.

Yes, but gay men identify as men. Crossdressers identify as men. Their identity matches their physical sex. If their identity matches their physical sex, why do they have an identity disorder?

Is it that anyone who breaks traditional gender roles (men sleeping with men, men dressing feminine) have an identity disorder that they’re not aware of which makes them do these things?

Would a childless by choice career woman have a Gender Identity Disorder?

Would a stay at home dad have a Gender Identity Disorder?

 

[Barbkw]

Yes, but gay men identify as men. Crossdressers identify as men. Their identity matches their physical sex. If their identity matches their physical sex, why do they have an identity disorder? Is it that anyone who breaks traditional gender roles (men sleeping with men, men dressing feminine) have an identity disorder that they’re not aware of which makes them do these things? Would a childless by choice career woman have a Gender Identity Disorder? Would a stay at home dad have a Gender Identity Disorder?

Why do you assume that people with sexual identity disorders are unaware of their personal relationship problems?

It is the central issue. The homosexual agenda, attempts to say they have no disorder, that a man having sex with a man is “normal”, that bisexuality is “normal”, that sexual organ removal and /or manufacturing is “normal”.

I see nothing “normal” about any of those actions. They each contain elements of psychological disorder.

 

[mgreen77]

Why do you assume that people with sexual identity disorders are unaware of their personal relationship problems?

I didn’t mean to say that exactly…

A quick google search says:

Gender Identity Disorder:
The psychological diagnosis gender identity disorder (GID) is used to describe a male or female that feels a strong identification with the opposite sex and experiences considerable distress because of their actual sex.

Gay men identify as men. Crossdressers identify as men. They don’t experience distress from being male.

So I don’t understand why Narth is saying men who identify as men have a “Gender Identity Disorder?”

 

[Barbkw]

I’m going to guess that Narth has a more comprehensive description of gender identity disorder as it relates to heterosexual relationship building.

That for a man to have sex with a man, he has first blocked out the possibility of wanting a family relationship with a woman and his/her children.

 

[kozlosap]

You can listen to what they say though, can’t you?

My dear nephew is 35 and a respected physician. He dated during high school and undergraduate school and was an active member of a national fraternity. When he “came out of the closet” at age 23, not one member of the family was shocked. My sister and brother-in-law told him they had “known” he was gay since he was a very small child. He told my daughter that he knew he was “different” ever since he could remember. I certainly don’t see that he has any sort of agenda EXCEPT the same one we all have - to live a life of service to others and find happiness and love God. Luckily he lives in a university town with an educated population and has a wonderful fellowship in his speciality working with our returning service members. I wish that all humans could find happiness and acceptance. I would be appalled if someone tried to indicate to me that I could change (recover) from being straight. To each their own. I face God by myself when I die, as do we all. My relationship with God is personal and I don’t think any of us are omniscient about what will happen at that exact second. One time my daughter reminded me that I had a huge plank in my eye and should remove it before I went about judging another human. What an insightful teenager…

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I think many gay people would like you to think that they are happy, or that they are unhappy because of the prejudice they suffer, but the reality is that they are unhappy because they are living a lifestyle which contradicts the design of life.

youtube.com/watch?v=zHG2LJGfEdw

Some of us are unhappy because we are apparently not worthy of having a normal life and are cursed (or saddled) with a condition we don’t want.

Oh, wait, that would imply that people don’t choose to be saddled with same-sex attractions which your comment apparently assumes that one does choose SSA.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I’m going to guess that Narth has a more comprehensive description of gender identity disorder as it relates to heterosexual relationship building.

That for a man to have sex with a man, he has first blocked out the possibility of wanting a family relationship with a woman and his/her children.

Not true. Ever hear of bisexuality? It’s not quite that simple. Experimentation early on also plays an important role. My earliest sexual experiences were with other boys and my girlfriends never let me get past second base. As a horny young teen male with a sensitive termperament not raised in any religion, you do the math.

 

[Barbkw]

Not true. Ever hear of bisexuality? It’s not quite that simple. Experimentation early on also plays an important role. My earliest sexual experiences were with other boys and my girlfriends never let me get past second base. As a horny young teen male with a sensitive termperament not raised in any religion, you do the math.

You’re saying that sexuality is both a personal choice and that it is learned. I agree.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

You’re saying that sexuality is both a personal choice and that it is learned. I agree.

No, I’m not saying that one chooses SSA. I would never say that because I am accursed with SSA and I most certainly didn’t CHOOSE this, although I can see how you can see how I might have implied that I did. Like I said, how SSA develops is complicated. The fact that I made it never second base actually reveals another underlying personality issue: I tend to give up when I encounter resistance. It’s about root causes.

 

[oldbrit2009]

Well, by “happy” I just meant I thought gay people don’t want to change sexes, even if some of them mimick mannerisms of the opposite sex. I assume a gay man wants to have sex with a man AS a man, not as a woman.

So this Narth stuff is confusing since it’s saying gays have Gender Identity Disorder.

It is a well know phenomena that even within a gay relationship male/female roles are adopted. That is why the male, who takes the woman’s role in the relationship, develops feminine attributes and conversely in a lesbian relationship the woman who takes on the male role develops masculine characteristics.
In purely natural terms homosexuality can never be a legitimate expression of sexuality because it is so manifestly unnatural. The very act is a parody of the real thing. The relationship is both sterile and self-indulgent.

 

[mgreen77]

It is a well know phenomena that even within a gay relationship male/female roles are adopted…

Right, so then Narth is saying anyone who adopts roles outside of traditional gender norms, such as a stay at home dad or a career woman who doesn’t want children… is afflicted with a Gender Identity Disorder?