I am asking about the origin of sin. Where did it started? By Satan or before?
They knew that they would die which this was against their nature. In another hand Satan claimed that they look like God which apparently this was in favor of their nature. So it was up to them to choose! So something were wrong in their nature, the desire to look Godly.
Human sin began with Adam and Eve. Sin as a reality probably began with Satan, though I don’t think there have been any official pronouncements on this.
Sorry, but I really can’t understand what you’re trying to say here. There might be a language barrier or something, but i’m not following.
We are NOT created imperfect. Our first parents were created perfect and sinless, and they freely chose to disobey God, thus incurring the consequences of original sin, one of which is that every succeeding generation is stained with same sin and the attendant concupiscence. This is our fault, not God’s. Sins for us are not unavoidable, simply very difficult from which to refrain. ProdglArchitect is exactly correct, and I would add that our offense against God is infinite due in the main to His own quality of infinity, and thus surely did require the infinitely perfect sacrifice of a perfect, sinless Man freely and willingly taking our debt of sin on his head and giving up the ghost in order that we might be restored to a right relation with the Trinity. Pace the New Agers and yoga practitioners, these things are not simply a matter of the correct breathing and loving the Divine in everything; they are serious issues and require complex and painful remedies.
Umm… He sent His son to teach us and lead us into all righteousness. His Son – freely! – chose to lay down His own life for us. The Father didn’t ordain it – Jesus chose it Himself, freely and on His own initiative.
Perhaps your education taught you “penal substitution”? That’s not what the Church teaches. What the Church teaches is that Jesus made a free choice to lay down His life… and then, God simply forgave us our sin.
Yes… recognizing a freely chosen, self-sacrificing loving act is ‘sadistic’ and ‘ego-driven’. Umm… really?
Right. Umm… the people of 2000 years ago – the Romans – as an intelligent civilized people, didn’t invent crucifixion as a bloody sacrifice, right? And the Jews – as an intelligent civilized people – didn’t endorse capital punishment by stoning, right?
I would respectfully disagree. Our first human parents were created – without sin, granted – but not perfect. Just ‘very good.’ Yes, they were created and granted gifts which they later lost… but they weren’t ‘perfect’ – just ‘human’.
Might we agree on ‘perfectly human’?kill051:
I would respectfully disagree. Our first human parents were created – without sin, granted – but not perfect. Just ‘very good.’ Yes, they were created and granted gifts which they later lost… but they weren’t ‘perfect’ – just ‘human’.
Sure… but I’m not certain that that changes things. It would just imply “free will”, and we know what is always a possibility with the exercise of free will, right?
This was refuted by Pope Benedict.
But aren’t you using today’s standards as a judgment of the time?
No finite human could ever dream up an “infinite” offense. The term “infinitely perfect” is redundant and “infinitely” is a concept even a mathematician has trouble with. “Perfect” is undefinable also. Religious writings are full of terms like “more perfect”, “whiter than the whitest white”, etc. This makes the above quote logically rather meaningless.
And what exactly would you call ‘football’ or ‘boxing’, if not “bloody sacrifice”? Not to death, mind you… but still, violence sanctioned by society as communal action.
Spot on. Anachronistic analysis is always problematic…Ahh, but the offense is against God, who is infinite.
You mean like the world today where we sacrifice our unborn children to worldly goods?