Answer to the Conversion of Muslims

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GeorgeSword

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I was reading an article by Archbishop (and now Servant of God) Fulton Sheen called ‘Mary and the Muslims’ and it makes sense. Mary is mentioned more than any woman in the Qu’ran. She appeared in Fatima, interestingly named after Muhammad’s daughter. Our beliefs on her are somewhat similar to those of Muslims, so perhaps if they increased their devotion to her she would lead them to her Son.
 
Some Muslims ask for Mary to pray for them.

While it is Divine Providence that Islam did not taint too many truths about Mary - such as her Perpetual Virginity and her Immaculate Conception - it must nevertheless be remembered that Mohammed took the Mother of God from Sacred Scriptures and false gospels, either because he wanted to appeal to Christians, he believed Jesus was a prophet and so wanted to honor His mother too (and Jesus is Prophet, Priest, and King), or both.
 
I appreciate your kind concern…🙂

you said “perhaps if they increased their devotion to her she would lead them to her Son.”

How do we increase our devotion to Mary if we don’t even have it in the first place…

I find the term “devotion” to be very foreign to the ears of Muslims,maybe not so with Suffis or Shias
 
As Eucharisted said, despite what I had always thought, apparently some Muslims do practice Marian devotions, albeit less than Catholics. Of course, for those who don’t have it, we must not increase it, but rather begin it.
 
Hadi said:
I appreciate your kind concern…🙂

you said “perhaps if they increased their devotion to her she would lead them to her Son.”

How do we increase our devotion to Mary if we don’t even have it in the first place…

I find the term “devotion” to be very foreign to the ears of Muslims,maybe not so with Suffis or Shias
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Hi Hadi, Is it not true that the Suffi expression of Islam was suppressed by those who were in favour of a more political expression which sought to spread the religion by force of arms ?🤷
 
matahari said:
Hi Hadi, Is it not true that the Suffi expression of Islam was suppressed by those who were in favour of a more political expression which sought to spread the religion by force of arms ?🤷
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**It is true that the Sufis spread the message of Islam gently with love. There were others who forced it. That was wrong. It was illegal. The recent example is the pathans (taliban) who forced people to adopt the Sharia law and they beat people to go to prayers etc. I feel that was not right at all.

They should have invited the weak muslims to Islam by their love and good example. They should have invited the whole world to Islam by their love and good example, by gentle preaching, not by arrogance amd haughtiness. But they (taliban) could not do any good thing for Islam because they did not have any spiritual leader (Imam).

There is already much controversy about who is a kafir? What is the real Jihad? Are the apostates to be killed? Should all the non-believers be killed? Is Jesus alive or he has died? Are some verses of the Quran abrogated? Was it Jesus himself on the cross or God caught hold of some one else to replace Jesus? Should the Muslims take literal meaning of the prophesies? Are the peaceful non-Muslims allowed to preach to the Muslims? Was Islam spread by sword?

Because there is no unanimous opinion on the above subjects and because the majority Muslims do not have any Imam, They cannot be guided. The mental, moral and spiritual condition of the Muslims is at the lowest now. They have the best book and the practice of the prophet (Sunnah) but of no use to them because of their ignorance of the Book.

It is true that the Suffi expression of Islam was suppressed by those who were in favour of a more political expression**. Those hunting with Shariayat even killed many sufis. At present most muslim leaders are indulged in politics. That is a clear mistake.They want to establish a kingdom of God ( Hukumat e ilahiyah). They will not succeed in that because of many factors.
 
planten said:
**
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They should have invited the weak muslims to Islam by their love and good example. They should have invited the whole world to Islam by their love and good example, by gentle preaching, not by arrogance amd haughtiness. …
**
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But that wouldn’t be the model of Mohammed.
**
…
Are the peaceful non-Muslims allowed to preach to the Muslims?
…
**
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Since Muslims can wage jihad by the sword, the pen, money, and preaching, such a non-Muslim would not be considered by Muslims to be a peaceful person because he would be waging jihad against Islam by his preaching. Since he would be considered to be waging jihad against Islam, he can be killed by Muslims [in “self-defense”, of course]. You have said so yourself.
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Was Islam spread by sword?
**
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Absolutely. There is no controversy about it.
 
matahari said:
Hi Hadi, Is it not true that the Suffi expression of Islam was suppressed by those who were in favour of a more political expression which sought to spread the religion by force of arms ?🤷
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Sufism is mystical sect in Islam who want to distant themselves from the worldly things…including politics

devotion to saints and praying for intercession is their major issue with mainstream Islam
 
Our beliefs on her are somewhat similar to those of Muslims, so perhaps if they increased their devotion to her she would lead them to her Son.
**Not at all similar.

The REAL Theotokos gave birth to a Son who is God and Man.

Moslems do NOT believe that Jesus is God Incarnate.

Therefore, Moslems don’t believe in the real Mary, either.

The entity they call “Mary”, like the one they all “Jesus”, is just something Mahomed med up.**
 
bpbasilphx said:
Our beliefs on her are somewhat similar to those of Muslims, so perhaps if they increased their devotion to her she would lead them to her Son.
**Not at all similar.

The REAL Theotokos gave birth to a Son who is God and Man.

Moslems do NOT believe that Jesus is God Incarnate.

Therefore, Moslems don’t believe in the real Mary, either.

The entity they call “Mary”, like the one they all “Jesus”, is just something Mahomed med up.**
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He didn’t make it up, he got it from Scriptures and false gospels. It’s an interesting story, actually.

Mohammed had two companions, one a Christian and another a Jew. The Christian’s name was Young. I forget the Jew’s name. They told him about tons of Christian and Jewish legends, and a bit of Scriptures. He learned about the false gospels from heretical Christians. And he incorporated the legends and stories into the Qu’ran, which is why you stumble upon excerpts from Jewish books and the Gospels and why you find stories taken from legends and false gospels, only changed slightly to fit the appetites of his hearers and not be caught plagerizing. But it didn’t work, and the Qu’ran also testifies to this, when it talks about people murmuring against Mohammed for stealing from Scriptures and having companions among the People of the Book. The Christians and Jews kept telling people to ask Mohammed questions about the “revelations” he was receiving, because they knew he was plagerizing and couldn’t answer the questions correctly, so he told Muslims that asking questions was bad and made you lose your faith. Than the Christians and Jews began to show people their Scriptures, because Mohammed was saying the Qu’ran vindicated them, but when he realized what the Scriptures actually said, he accused the People of corrupting their books and hidding the real books. But the questions, accusations, and evidence kept piling up against him and many Muslims were beginning to doubt him. And to make matters worst, Christians and Jews began to attack the Muslims, not only out of self-defense but also in an attempt to stop Mohammed’s influence and power. This backfired, as it gave Mohammed the excuse he needed to slaughter them. A lot of Christians converted to Islam, but most of the Jews did not. So Mohammed declared Jews to be the eternal enemies of the Muslims, and he said anyone who wasn’t a part of Islam was an enemy of Allah. All this is indicated and recorded in the Qu’ran. It just takes a bit of knowledge of who Mohammed was, how he behaved, and what his life was like in order to put the pieces of thepuzzle together.
 
bpbasilphx said:
…
Therefore, Moslems don’t believe in the real Mary, either.

The entity they call “Mary”, like the one they all “Jesus”, is just something Mahomed med up.
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Well, not exactly. Mohammed got her confused with Miriam, Moses’ sister.

Down about 1/3 of the way under Moses as the Uncle of Jesus :

“Although Muslim apologists deny it, the Koran clearly depicts Moses as the brother of Jesus’ mother Mary, which makes Moses Jesus’ uncle. This of course, is another confusion of characters and misunderstanding of history… In this case, the Jesus’ mother Mary is confused with Moses’ sister Miriam.”
This in spite of there being over 1,200 years separating Moses and Jesus. So, yes, they don’t believe in the same Mary and Jesus we do. Mohammed uses these stories to validate his claim to be the last in the line of Judeo-Christian prophets.
 
sedonaman said:
Well, not exactly. Mohammed got her confused with Miriam, Moses’ sister.

Down about 1/3 of the way under Moses as the Uncle of Jesus :

“Although Muslim apologists deny it, the Koran clearly depicts Moses as the brother of Jesus’ mother Mary, which makes Moses Jesus’ uncle. This of course, is another confusion of characters and misunderstanding of history… In this case, the Jesus’ mother Mary is confused with Moses’ sister Miriam.”
This in spite of there being over 1,200 years separating Moses and Jesus. So, yes, they don’t believe in the same Mary and Jesus we do. Mohammed uses these stories to validate his claim to be the last in the line of Judeo-Christian prophets.
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I made a thread regarding some answers to Mary/Moses that Muslims apologetists make: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=353315
 
planten said:
** Was Islam spread by sword?

.**
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No Islam was spread by garland.the garland of badr,the garland of Mut’aa,garland of Hira,garland of yamama,garland of yarmuk,…:rolleyes:

Should I write all of Jihad’s name?Planten you must know that the 2nd Caliph Umar kicked out khalid bin walid as commander in Chief because Khalid the saifullah(sword of Allah;this title was given by Muhammed) was a very hostile leader?And once Muslims started to think him as a kind of demi god who can win every battle?And be sure planten,after Khalid ,other Muslim commanders also did not spread islam with garland but they spread Islam by sword.Muhammed bin Kasim,Muhammed Ghori,Tariq,Musa, and many others.So what is your opinion of
**sword ****of allah?**Oh i forgot about the greatest(!) emperor Aurangzeb,who started the garland of Jyziahfor Indian Non Muslims:D.
 
morning_star777 said:
No Islam was spread by garland.the garland of badr,the garland of Mut’aa,garland of Hira,garland of yamama,garland of yarmuk,…
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I am reminded that “war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength.” Therefore, sword must be garland.
 
GeorgeSword said:
I was reading an article by Archbishop (and now Servant of God) Fulton Sheen called ‘Mary and the Muslims’ and it makes sense. Mary is mentioned more than any woman in the Qu’ran. She appeared in Fatima, interestingly named after Muhammad’s daughter. Our beliefs on her are somewhat similar to those of Muslims, so perhaps if they increased their devotion to her she would lead them to her Son.
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I have to disagree here.

Apart from the already mentioned Mary = Miriam, mohammedans believe that Mary is part of the trinity ( http://www.cosgan.de/images/midi/froehlich/d015.gif ).

Q 5:116: And behold! Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah’?” He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

Furthermore, Mo lusted for Mary:
quotation from Ibn Kathir
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“The Messenger of God … said, ‘God MARRIED ME IN PARADISE TO MARY THE DAUGHTER OF 'IMRAN and to the wife of Pharaoh and the sister of Moses.’ (Tabarani)” (Ibn Kathir, Qisas al-Anbiya [Cairo: Dar al-Kutub, 1968/1388], p. 381- as cited in Aliah Schleifer’s Mary The Blessed Virgin of Islam [Fons Vitae; ISBN: 1887752021; July 1, 1998], pg 64)
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According to the Quran, Mary’s father is called Imran:
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“Behold! a wife of Ìmrán said: ‘O my Lord! I do dedicate into Thee what is in my womb for Thy special service: So accept this of me: For Thou hearest and knowest all things.’ When she was delivered, she said: ‘O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!’ - and Allah knew best what she brought forth - ‘And no wise is the male like the female. I have named her Mary, and I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from Satan, the Rejected.’” S. 3:35-36
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The late Iranian Islamic scholar, Ali Dashti, wrote:
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… According to the Cambridge Tafsir, the word thayyebat (widows or divorcees) refers to Pharaoh’s wife Asiya, and the word virgins (abkar) refers to Jesus’ mother Mary, both of whom are waiting to be married to the Prophet Mohammad in heaven. (Dashti, 23 Years: A Study of the Prophetic Career of Mohammad [Mazda Publishers, Costa Mesa, CA 1994], p. 138)
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answering-islam.de/Main/Shamoun/mary.htm

From the article:
It is our belief that this will happen not through the direct teaching of Christianity but through a summoning of the Muslims to a veneration of the Mother of God.
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They will never do that:
  1. They consider that shirk. The catholic veneration for Mary they consider idolatry.
  2. Mo demounted Jesus from the status of god to prophet, so he could have a higher status for himself. There is no need for mohammedans to place a higher value on Mary, as her son was simply another prophet (who didn’t even die for his faith, but did run away and did let someone else die for him).
The final evidence of the relationship of the village of Fatima to the Muslims is the enthusiastic reception that the Muslims in Africa and India and elsewhere have to the pilgrim statue of Our Lady of Fatima, as mentioned earlier. Muslims attended the church services in honor of Our Lady; they allowed religious processions and even prayers before their mosques; and in Mozambique the Muslims, who were unconverted, began to be Christian as soon as the statue of Our Lady of Fatima was erected.
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I highly doubt that. Statue = idolatry, a big no no for mohammedans.
 
GeorgeSword said:
As Eucharisted said, despite what I had always thought, apparently some Muslims do practice Marian devotions, albeit less than Catholics. Of course, for those who don’t have it, we must not increase it, but rather begin it.
Click to expand...
Why can’t they worship god their way? Why does it need to be your way?
 
GeorgeSword said:
I was reading an article by Archbishop (and now Servant of God) Fulton Sheen called ‘Mary and the Muslims’ and it makes sense. Mary is mentioned more than any woman in the Qu’ran. She appeared in Fatima, interestingly named after Muhammad’s daughter. Our beliefs on her are somewhat similar to those of Muslims, so perhaps if they increased their devotion to her she would lead them to her Son.
Click to expand...
Yeah she did already lead us to say that jesus is not the son of GOD/ALLAH.
He is send by Allah/God as a PROPHET not anything else.
 
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