Answering "hate religion, love Jesus"

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Yeah right.
I’m a “just me and Jesus TRUE Christian.”
“I” am good. “RELIGIOUS” people are BAD.
Kindly REALLY study your bible, instead of blabbing and harping constantly
about bible study. REALLY study the NT, and you’ll see CLEARLY that Jesus established the CHURCH, the EPISCOPATE, CONFESSION, in fact ALL THE SACRAMENTS. Scripture teaches this as clear as a bell.

Take that “I’m above the fray and above it all” kind of antiChurch attitude,
and go take a long walk until you get over your arrogant, self-righteous self.
As if they themselves AREN’T still sinners themselves. Get real.
And quit saying such nonsense.
Christ established the church and all it’s offices and all it’s sacraments.
Scripture, correctly studied and interpreted, gives crystal-clear witness of that.
That anti-Church kind of talk is downright sacrilegious, if not actually blasphemous.
I for one am sick of it. It just drips of a superior attitude.
 
Jaypeeto4,

I agree to an extent. Yes it does give off a certain arrogance, however I think that those Christians are misunderstanding us and that is our fault as a church. There are many of us who are “Catholic by birth, but not by faith” and I think that has given us a certain negative stereotype. I don’t know very many Catholics myself(and I live in a predominantly Catholic area) that actually live the Gospel and are a bad example of the Church. I think if more of us took the time to actually practice what we preach then that negativity of us may dwindle. It will never die, but at least it could be lessened.

But you are absolutely right about scripture. I mean honestly do they just skip those parts and act like they don’t exist? I actually had a pastor once say that the bible didn’t really mean Jesus turned water into wine!:confused:
 
Irish_Polock said:
Basically, the problem was, the fact that he was ambiguous, also redefining the word “religious” as he has said that the community he attends (Mars Hill Bible Church) has done, has not helped him get the correct message out with this video. when asked, he has said"

“…the word ‘religion’ is used to connotate those who are counting on their self-righteousness to earn salvation. It can be Jews, Muslims, etc. but Christians as well who think that by their good works, deeds, and obedience they will find themselves earning their own salvation. There is no hate behind the poem toward any person. There is, however, disgust with the distortion of the gospel that says we can earn salvation. Eph 2:8-19, Tit. 3:3-8. It’s by God’s unmerited grace alone that we are saved.”

This would fit most protestant cliches’ of Catholicism, their is no wonder that many Catholics got offended. The man has very little theological background, and for the most part, is just regurgitating what his pastor has told him. This is possibly why he used the word, “religious” instead of “self-righteous” or “hypocrite”. All three are synonyms to him. He has admit to all the above, and when asked in an interview, if he could do the video over again, would he have used a different word, he the said “…maybe”.
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The Universal Catholic church is christ centered. Catholicism is the most christ centered faith you can imagine. It is fruitful. It is full of love. ANd yes it is full of hope. Catholics have built hospitals by the thousands, schools and colleges by the 100s of thousands, and helped feed the hungry, and cloth the poor since it’s beginning.

You want to see a hospital for sinners? In a catholic church you will not only find a priest who lives at the church in the rectory but you will find him busy in prayer at 8 am, guiding a couple in marriage at 10 am, helping a family deal with adultery at 11 am, counseling a teenager who is suicidal at noon, baptizing a baby at 1 pm, celebrating a funeral at 2pm, providing stewardship of the church treasure at 3pm, driving 50 miles to a nearby prison for ministry, and then back in confession dealing with sin at 5 pm and healing the sick with anointing at 2 am. The Catholic Church in my town has over 90 ministries, and even with over 18 meeting rooms, 3 halls, and about 15 offices, we are lucky to have space for what we do. Our priests do not rest. In some catholic churches from Jan 6 - Feb 2nd you’ll still see Jordan River house blessings where a priest literally goes to every single home in the entire city and prays with and pastorally visits anyone who answers the door and lets him in. You can find bible study every night in a catholic church. You can find prayer every day in a catholic church. You can find hope and faith and love in every corner and in every home of our congregation. That is the answer to our brothers statement. And may the peace of the lord be with him.
 
The more that “hate religion, love Jesus” video makes the rounds, and the more popular it gets, the more it seems to me to evidence the intellectual poverty of the type of religion he preaches. And of course, he does preach religion, just a poor and watered down religion that Jesus would not recognize.
 
These fundamentalist Christians seem to redefine the meaning of the word religion to just mean hypocrite and ignore the definitions of religion that would apply to their own church. It all seems very slick. “We understand that religion has put you off Jesus i.e hypocrisy - but our church (read religion) is the real thing. You will like us”. But I have read “Animal Farm” by George Orwell. ALL organisations lose touch with their original vision, I doubt the Jesus lovers with “no” religion are any different.
 
This would be the mark of a man who believes that they have concluded that their personal interpretation and understanding is valid. There may be a very small possibility that this could be true if this person were steeped in the word of God and lived a life similar to the Desert Fathers. Otherwise I think we can feel very comfortable that this person is fooling themselves. You ask why?
Simply stated, Jesus gave clear guidance on his Fathers will and the path to heaven. A significant part of that is humility, the person who has surrendered themselves to Gods will and opened themselves to the Holy Spirit. Assuming this would have taken place we would see what behaviors in a person? I believe that as Jesus stated on the Sermon on the Mount, we would see people who would be blessed for their humbleness and their ability to grasp that life on earth comes with pain and sorrow but that God has a plan and that we all need to understand this and keep our faith, no matter what.
So what is this person really saying? Honestly I am not sure, nor can we nor should we judge them to harshly. We can conclude that they are confused in some of their fundamental beliefs but hopefully as time passes they will be filled with a light of love. Now, rejection of hierarchy and its failings I will be the first to agree that man is a sinner and that religious men are not significantly different from lay people in the sense that they too are flawed creatures who must seek Gods guidance and forgiveness. As a Catholic I can clearly see that the politics of life super seceded the will of God when Cardinal Law was allowed to escape the civil consequences of his deplorable managerial failure with the Priest –Pedophile cases in Boston Ma. We can point to other examples in all denominations and religions. These are classic cases of mere men allowing their selfishness to rule over and above the will of God. I personally witnessed Bishop McCormick of NH justify the horrific behaviors of the hierarchy and the pedophiles treatment by the church. All of it was from an intelligent man who placed political expediency above what was the right thing to do. So I can appreciate a man’s frustration and anger at the “hierarchy” I myself stayed away from the church for over three years because of this very matter. I came back after much thought and prayer. A friend urged me to see that, yes there are failures within the hierarchy but that my faith in God must strengthen me to move beyond this and know that there are many, many good people within the walls of the “religion”, and that they do Gods will day in and day out. This is true. So I urge us all to celebrate this man’s love for Jesus and to pray that he will see his way clear one of these days to join the community and as we who are Catholics remember what that means, Catholic is “Universal”, for all, so the merit of a man who loves Jesus but rails against the criminal under the roof of the church is merely asking for justice. I agree with seeking justice with mans law and I will leave the eternal judgment to our God.
 
callmeChris said:
We all see these comments and beliefs almost every day? What’s the best way to tackle these anti- church philosophies?
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Lots of anti church brothors speaks about our relationship with holy communion. From the early days of the church there was communion practiced. You can note that all their teachings were fully about praying to GOD and getting blessings like money, health, home, car, like earthly benifits.I am 100 % sure that their prayer aims that, more than that they will say praying and praising is loving GOD, They never speek about loving others as you love yourself. Because of their pastor’s mind is fully devoted to get 1/10th of earnings they will never care to teach about these.

Curch is the body of jesus. We are all the organs of it. Read Epistle to the Philippians fully, there paul is speeking about people who are against the cross of christ. Cross of christ signifies the sacrifice we have to do for the poor, disabled, the people in need and the justice.
 
I think the problem is, is that people confuse “faith” with a 'religion" or call faith a religion. I would say there are many religions in the world.

A religion is based on ones own personal understanding of faith. I myself have seen the psychological damage of religion. Jim Jones would be an obvious example, but I have seen it play out in other peoples lives.

I knew a “religious” person, and their religion was a facade. Faith on the other hand , true Faith, is lived. Its alive and its real. Its not based on the vanity of sentimentalism. Didn’t the Pharisees and Sadduces have a 'religion" ?

The example being of course that they wanted to kill Christ but not on the Sabbath? They were willing to kill a man , but not on the Sabbath because it would make them ritualy unclean.

See how twisted and sick religion can be? Faith on the other hand is different. For example, the harlot coming to repentence and sinning no more, or the woman by the well. The pharisee reserving his own tomb to lay Christs Body in. That is Faith , not religion.
 
Thanks for answering deceivers.
Please someone who is following, sum up the 15 pages - most important points 👍
 
Faith is the intangible internal commitment we as an individual make to God’s will. Religion is the word that we use to describe a particular group of people and their interpretation of God’s will. The Bible is the foundation of mans earthly communication to other men about the will of God. No one can dispute that anything that involves man is subject to and impacted by mans ability to sin. So, be it religion, a church, a sect we can voice disagreement all day long in the negative towards one another. We will go to war over this and we can certainly point to many historical events where “religion” abused other men. Yet we must also look at the many positives of “religion” when it is used following Gods two primary commandments as Jesus told us. Love God and Love your neighbor. Catholics have historically had and will continue to have those who understand the two commandments that Jesus pointed out and these people will in special cases become saints. We all must defend our “faith or is it religion” yet at the same time we should not forget those two commandments. Though I am Catholic I have participated in a strict Baptist Bible Church’s weekly Wednesday night Bible Class. Many of the threads speak accurately of the flaws and inaccuracies of these Protestant beliefs. I myself practice as best I can the two commandments at all times. I stumble and then proceed to examine my missteps. The insecurity of any individual will be shown by the venom of their attack towards others. I believe none of us should be going negative but rather if we truly believe in our Catholic teachings then we should be very clear that those who are misguided or flat out wrong will struggle with any argument you make. What will change their mind, if it going to change it will begin with the consistent behavior that you would display in the most heated of discussions regarding our differences? However, that is only one aspect of the paradigm shift that is required to happen for a person who is convinced with their set of beliefs. That person must absorb and digest multiple blocks of faith that we as Catholics have within our core beliefs. This is no easy task and as has been mentioned the overly simplified SOLO SCRIPTURE makes things fit quite easily for those who do not wish to explore their hearts and souls in a deep and frank manner. Our most sincere beliefs if they are truly branded into our Hearts, minds and soul should put us in a position of unquestionable love for God and for our fellow man. I sense in some response the flames of anger and resentment, is this not ones ego rearing its head? Did not Jesus ask us to deny ourselves and if we would be able to do this then we would have emptied ourselves such that the Holy Spirit would fill us with God’s love, if that is true then how could we have our ego surfacing? This would be a conflict and an indicator that as an individual we were not really yet where God wants us to be, fully committed. So I leave you with this thought, bear down on our brothers who see SOLO SCRIPTURE as the way with kindness and gentle but supremely confident words that GOD has offered us salvation but we believe firmly that to obtain that we must step up and truly empty ourselves and to achieve that we as Man need to help on another to do this, our Church is that vehicle.
 
I have 2 brothers who are of that thinking…“Hate Religion Love Christ” . To a certain point I see the where they are coming from. Still…I tell them I go to church because I want to learn, for me, its food for my soul. But I do agree in what they tell me, my brothers even sometimes my husband…GOD…has NO religion.
 
GOD…has NO religion. True enough, in a WAY.
Religion is simply the organized public worship of God, with doctrines, practices, and sacraments. Christianity is most certainly a religion, not a person’s mere FAITH.
It is NOT either/or, it is BOTH, and anyone who tells you differently,
is spreading a falsehood, no matter HOW sincere he or she is.
 
Let he without sin cast the first stone…

These people look at religion and they say anyone who is religious isn’t truly Christian. Anyone who is religious doesn’t know Christ…

Isn’t that judgment at its worst?

Who are they to determine that everyone who takes part of rituals has no faith?
 
To accept a “Faith” means that we must accept the entire “Faith” which includes the religion. Religion is a part of our beliefs because it is there to keep people from rationalizing their desires into acceptable forms of behavior. (take for instance Reality TV, it sends the message that rudeness, disrespect, vulgarity, etc is acceptable. People, especially young immature minds accept this behavior as the norm.) We watch these things but want to reject our Religion that has been around for thousands of years but accept a TV show that’s been around for 2 seasons. Religion is there to help us make the right decisions. Reality TV is there to put corrupt messages into the minds of not just our children, but some adults. If people would take 1 hour a week and just receive the message of the Lord in church, I do believe people would act with more dignity in this country. You cannot accept God and not the Church, you cannot properly receive the word of the Lord from books alone, or the flawed internet or from other untrained people who have NO proper religious training. If you chose to accept God and not Religion, then you are not accepting God; just rationalizing that you are.
 
**Who are they to determine that everyone who takes part of rituals has no faith? **

Yes, the assertions are breath-taking and arrogant.
Again, these people are implicitly claiming to be “above it all”, to be
“REAL” Christians while “RELIGIOUS” people are a bunch of phonies.

They are taking individual snippets of scripture, wrenching them out of context,
and claiming that the CHURCH, from which Church the scriptures themselves emerged!! - is a fraudulent entity, FAKE Christianity, nonsense, manmade, worthless.

Want to start your own Church, totally out of communion with the Universal Church?
“Scripture” can be made to APPEAR to support THAT too, by simply quoting Christ’s statement that “wherever two or more are gathered in my name, there am I also.”
Good lord, using THAT verse, you can justify any heresy that has ever existed or ever will exist, you can justify complete disobedience to all spiritual authority, you can justify just about anything. Clearly Christ never meant those words to be taken in such an extreme manner.

This is really beyond ridiculous. How very, very sad.
 
I find going back to basics is what is needed when helping people to understand our faith.

I teach Catechism classes and I teach my kids that Jesus is the head of the church and we are the body.

I ask them if they see bodies walking down the street without heads or heads rolling around without bodies…

I also advocate for having an ACTIVE faith with Jesus because too often people get offended and state that one is “Dictating their relationship with God” (i.e. I believe in Jesus, I pray, I don’t have to go to church to have a relationship with God…)

Clearly these people don’t understand the concept of community; nor do the get the beauty and awe of attending Mass regularly and experiencing the Eucharist.

Patience and adapting your apologetics for the intellectual level of the recipient, while breaking it down simply is a challenge. Ask the Holy Spirit for guidance. 🙂
 
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