Answering "hate religion, love Jesus"

[ESMDHokie77]

From Father Eddie Dwyer on Facebook:
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...58165698478_21706405_51868517_309040932_n.jpg

 

[nickybr38]

From Father Eddie Dwyer on Facebook:
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...58165698478_21706405_51868517_309040932_n.jpg

Right click. Save.

 

[JimG]

Then there’s this: How to Go from Being a Good Evangelical to a Committed Catholic in 95 Difficult Steps, by Christian Smith.

But it’s longer than a video.

 

[IanGE]

How many times have I heard those ridiculous escuses?

You can not love without practise, therefore, how do they love Our Lord if they’re not religious?

If Christianity isn’t a religion, what is it? It certainly isn’t the latest flavour of biscuits.

Similar to the “I’m spiritual but not religious” claims.

1. I wonder how the original statement became “HATE religion, love Jesus?” Many Charismatics found God through the path of religion, although that’s not a rule: Atheists, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs have also found the real God via Damascus Road jobs. I rejected my baptismal Catholicism AND God when my baby died in my arms. I reckon I was saved through prayer, particularly the prayers of Our Lady, but also BECAUSE I doubted. Jesus didn’t boot Thomas out but SHOWED him his wounds, “put your hand here” and then the marvellous “my Lord and my God!” I dared to ask “will the real God please stand up,” and He let me find Him in my own Catholic backyard. Its OK to ask hard questions, honest: God IS love!
2. Love (agape) is a fruit of the Spirit (in Gal. 5 Paul expresses it so well - through the Spirit, no doubt!). And of course there is, “Peter do you *agape *me?” “Lord, I philo you.” Two very different views of “love”.
3. Loyal View quoted:“Clearly the person who accepts the Church as an infallible guide will believe whatever the Church teaches.”
   Saint Thomas Aquinas.
   I think old Aquinas had tongue in cheek there: that could be a reference to gullability!

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

Saint Thomas Aquinas.
I think old Aquinas had tongue in cheek there: that could be a reference to gullability!

Actually, the tongue in cheek was directed towards those that were Catholic but did not believe everything the Church teaches. When someone has a hundred percent conviction that the Church is an infallible guide, they won’t bother putting up any rebellions. So the question turns to those that do rebel, do they not believe the Church is the infallible guide established by Christ?

 

[IanGE]

Actually, the tongue in cheek was directed towards those that were Catholic but did not believe everything the Church teaches. When someone has a hundred percent conviction that the Church is an infallible guide, they won’t bother putting up any rebellions. So the question turns to those that do rebel, do they not believe the Church is the infallible guide established by Christ?

Papal infallibility A good read from Google. It seems not a hundred % of Catholics were or are in agreement with Papal infallibilty let alone the derivation the “Church” is infallible. The declaration of Papal infallabity was limited to ex cathedra statements, very few of which have been pronounced. Also infallible statements came under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. A read of Eusebius will show that the church discredited “tongue speakers” and booted out the Holy Spirit way back in 330-ish AD. Jesus says “These signs will follow the believers: they will speak in glossoss (tongues)…& c.” (Mark 16:17 & 18. Tongue speakers are still looked on as agents of the devil by elements of the Church. As far as I’m concerned, no Holy Spirit, no infallibility.
There ARE Charismatic Catholic priests, who demonstrate ‘the Signs’. When I see a Pope demonstrating the signs I will accept prophecies through him as infallible. All Charismatics, including priests, have first given their lives to Jesus (a freewill gift that the Lord so loves). Swearing obedience to the Church is not enough.
BTW. One of the lesser known gifts of the Spirit is that the Bible suddenly becomes the most beautiful book ever! All of it becomes a love letter from God. I weep at the declaration that Church Dogma is given the same weight as (or even surpercedes) the Word of God. So much of dogma is unloving doctrine. From baptism and confirmation I,ve been made to feel a dirty little boy/adult/man by Catholic School and Church - “Lord I am not worthy…” I cannot say that anymore - I say “thank You Lord for making me worthy by Your agonising death on the cross.”

 

[robwar]

it is really so sad that so many believe in this nonsense. what sounds so good is really just an excuse to do what one wants or thinks and call it spiritual. The Bible that many of these poor souls would say they believe in does not even teach this and Jesus did set up Peter and the apostles to lead the church. Even the OT, the Jewish faith was very well organize and regulated. Just ask someone who says that “Where is that in the Bible? please quote the verse!”

 

[Beati_Pacifici]

Doesn’t want to beat a dead horse. . .but has anyone seen Fr. Barron’s response?
youtu.be/TLta2b9zQ64

 

[zz912]

In my books Republicans have not cornered the market on pro-life and other religious issues, and they are harming religion by making their party out to be the bearer of true Christianity. Its supposed stand against abortion seems disingenuous in the total context of what it stands for – including promoting death through environmental harms, such as local pollution, climate change, etc (by way of denial). And a frequent Republican/Christian response to this – they deny that environmental problems are serious and killing people; they deny climate change, like Cain denied involvement in Abel’s killing. “And just because you call some people blind doesn’t automatically give you vision.”

A real Christian would be against abortion both through medical procedure AND through other means, such as environmental toxins, and would be against the various other means by which we kill people, including the ways we also kill born people. And would be against the willful destruction and wasting of God’s good creation that pretty much ensure that a large portion of future generations cannot survive, so self can live profligately today.

I’m trying real hard to control my fingers and be charitable in my response, but what you wrote is a bunch of nonsense and hooey.

Republicans are not out to destroy the environment, and the fact you believe this is stunning.

And “climate change” is a leftist canard that is used to pursue greater govt power and control. The world goes through cycles of hot and cold, and we have VERY little effect on it. You may be unaware, but even a few centuries ago, they had carnivals on the Thames River in London because it would completely freeze over in winter. They have also found in the Alps old mines with equipment that is centuries old, that was hidden under snow and ice for centuries, but obviously were not at that time.

I agree with you that tying yourself to a political party is foolish, but the fact that you throw out accusations against half the people in America as wishing to destroy the environment is rude.

 

[Rocky24]

Yes, this 'I love Jesus but hate religion is evangelical propaganda. They claim to be the true way to Christ and call the Church the Whore of Babylon. Last time I checked, the Vatican did not sit on one of the seven hills of Rome.
Evangelicals are mistaken because if Jesus wanted everybody to be with these people he would have founded Evangelicalism two thousand years ago, but instead he founded Catholocism. Based on their teachings, that means that not a single soul entered Heaven before the Reformation. Last time I checked, every single Saint had said that the Catholic Church is the One True Church and Bride of Christ. The Saints are correct.

‘Look for the church which is accused of having a devil, just as Our Lord was accused of being possessed by Beelzubub, the Prince of Devils.’ (Bishop Fulton Sheen)

 

[internetjoko]

Dear Catholics,

Allow me to apologize on behalf of protestant evangelicals everywhere for the arrogance, misinformation and dismissiveness that the Jesus > Religion video displays towards the Catholic Church. I’m sorry we are so thankless for a world without communism, for a bible, for the saints, for martyrs who kept the faith alive, for Orthodoxy (and G.K. Chesterton for that matter), for your defense of our unborn children, for your world changing charity and moral teaching through the ages. Please forgive us for insulting you and treating the bride with such disrespect.

I am seeking the truth, and I can only ask on behalf of myself and other honest protestant followers of Jesus that if you are the Church Christ founded, please prove it to us by loving Jesus and others better than we can. If my mother-in-law doesn’t meet a loving Catholic soon, all she will ever know of Catholicism is her friend who was abused by the Priest she went to for abuse counseling.

Please, if the Church is our home, be a saint for our sake.

Here is a blog I wrote in your defense: obiwankologes.blogspot.com/2012/02/jesus-and-religion.html

Love,

Your friendly neighborhood separated brethren.

 

[buzzoff1031]

This is actually quite beautiful. This is both an encouragement and a challenge. We are all called to live in love and not judgement. Thank you for displaying that.

 

[Prieldedi]

Dear Catholics,

Allow me to apologize on behalf of protestant evangelicals everywhere for the arrogance, misinformation and dismissiveness that the Jesus > Religion video displays towards the Catholic Church. I’m sorry we are so thankless for a world without communism, for a bible, for the saints, for martyrs who kept the faith alive, for Orthodoxy (and G.K. Chesterton for that matter), for your defense of our unborn children, for your world changing charity and moral teaching through the ages. Please forgive us for insulting you and treating the bride with such disrespect.

I am seeking the truth, and I can only ask on behalf of myself and other honest protestant followers of Jesus that if you are the Church Christ founded, please prove it to us by loving Jesus and others better than we can. If my mother-in-law doesn’t meet a loving Catholic soon, all she will ever know of Catholicism is her friend who was abused by the Priest she went to for abuse counseling.

Please, if the Church is our home, be a saint for our sake.

Here is a blog I wrote in your defense: obiwankologes.blogspot.com/2012/02/jesus-and-religion.html

Love,

Your friendly neighborhood separated brethren.

Thank you for your words and thank you for your blog, I liked it. But I have a few questions to ask you:

Why do you ask us, sinners, to prove that the Catholic Church is the one founded by Jesus? I understand your point, but you should look beyond our human frailties and faults and see the Hand of God at work through the centuries through the Catholic Church. Don’t reject it for us sinners, accept it for Jesus, His Apostles, the Popes and the Saints. There you have enough proof to come to the conclusion that the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Jesus. Are you are like Saint Thomas, “I’ll believe when I SEE you being saint”? Remember, “Happy are those who have not seen and believe.” (John 20:29)

It’s true we must be the light of the world, but we are not perfect and we are not saints, we are called to be saints but we fail misserable not once, but many many times, and even if we do, even if there are bad lay Catholics, bad priests and bad bishops that doesn’t mean the Catholic Church is not the one established by Jesus Himself. Saint Paul said “Our battle is not against human forces but against the rulers and authorities and their dark powers that govern this world. We are struggling against the spirits and supernatural forces of evil” (Ephesians 6:12). I’m not making excuses, we struggle day to day to keep our head over the waters. I ask you to turn your eyes to our Saints, not to our sinners.

In your post you mention the saints and you thank them. But when you say that “we are His Body”, are you calling all the Christian church denominations on the face of the Earth “His Body”? Are all the Christian church denominations “the Church”? I ask in light of what one of our saints said:

“What the soul is to man’s body, the Holy Spirit is to the Body of Christ, which is the Church. The Holy Spirit does in the whole Church what the soul does in all members of one body. But see what you must beware of, see what you must take note of, see what you must fear. It happens that in the human body, or rather, off the body, some member, whether hand, finger, or foot, may be cut away. And if a member be cut off, does the soul go with it? When the member was in the body, it lived; and off, its life is lost. So too, a Christian man is Catholic while he lives in the body; cut off, he is made a heretic; the Spirit does not follow an amputated member.” Saint Augustine, Sermons, 267, 4, 391-430 A.D.

We must not forget that Luther cut himself and his followers off the Church.

We must also remember that Jesus told His Apostles (and through them to the Apostles’ successors):

“He who hears you, hears me; and he who rejects you, rejects Me; and he who rejects Me, rejects Him who sent me.” (Luke 10:16)

Do you HEAR them or do you REJECT them? Do you go by what the Apostles’ successors DO or by what they SAY? This is a tricky question because they DO and SAY many things that Jesus and the Apostles did and said, like taking communion (the Eucharist is a GOOD thing to DO) which is rejected by almost all (if not all) of the protestant denominations.

Some of our priest and bishops DO bad things, they SIN. Does the bad behavior (sins) made public of some bad bishops and priests of the Catholic Church speak louder… for you… than the excellent behavior (VIRTUES) of the thousands and thousands of good bishops, priests, nuns and lay Catholics (SAINTS) of the Catholic Church through out its history?

 

[Darran]

How many times have I heard those ridiculous escuses?

You can not love without practise, therefore, how do they love Our Lord if they’re not religious?

If Christianity isn’t a religion, what is it? It certainly isn’t the latest flavour of biscuits.

Similar to the “I’m spiritual but not religious” claims.

That gave me a chuckle, nice one

 

[IanGE]

Thank you for your words and thank you for your blog, I liked it. But I have a few questions to ask you:

“What the soul is to man’s body, the Holy Spirit is to the Body of Christ, which is the Church. The Holy Spirit does in the whole Church what the soul does in all members of one body. But see what you must beware of, see what you must take note of, see what you must fear. It happens that in the human body, or rather, off the body, some member, whether hand, finger, or foot, may be cut away. And if a member be cut off, does the soul go with it? When the member was in the body, it lived; and off, its life is lost. So too, a Christian man is Catholic while he lives in the body; cut off, he is made a heretic; the Spirit does not follow an amputated member.” Saint Augustine, Sermons, 267, 4, 391-430 A.D.

We must not forget that Luther cut himself and his followers off the Church.
We must also remember that Jesus told His Apostles (and through them to the Apostles’ successors):

"He who hears you, hears me; and he who rejects you, rejects Me; and he who rejects Me, rejects Him who sent me." (Luke 10:16)

I wonder whether Luther cut HIMSELF off or that, rather, he was cut off by being excommunicated, declared a “heretic” for daring to question the Church’s dubious pronouncements, mainly the purchase of indulgences and the assertion that fallible dogma supersedes the Word of God? One of his theses was “if the Church will not work with the Holy Spirit then The Holy Spirit will work with the Laity” - a prophecy that has come true, particularly during the last century. Heresy?
Jesus often said “he who has ears to hear, let him hear” (Matt. 11.15. He was referring to Isaiah 6:10, a horrendous task imposed upon Isaiah by the Lord: “make their hearts of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes.” Please read for yourselves. Whenever I read in Church I ask the Holy Spirit to be in my tongue and ask Him to open the ears of the congregation to HIS words.
There is an area in my town that is full of druggies, muggers and bad hats in general. We pray for them but once the Lord said to me: “Ian, their ears are closed. Before you can even begin to evangelise their ears must be opened. Whenever you drive through that area, pray in Tongues.” My wife and I obey that command and have discovered that Tongues can also be used as a Weapon against evil. We are constantly amazed that as we drive past one house, our tongues become an angry chastisement; the very next house and the tongues change to a sweet blessing. We don’t know who lives there but the Holy Spirit does!
PS Please remember poor old Copernicus who was declared a heretic for PROVING that the Earth revolved around the Sun. Dogma insisted that God-created Earth was the centre of the Universe and the Sun revolved around Earth. The Church apologised to Copernicus only a few years ago. I look forward to an apology to Martin Luther.

 

[Michael_Francis]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Several posts have been removed because they departed from the topic of responding to the video in question.
Please stay on topic from this point on and if you have other issues you wish to discuss/debate,
comply with the Forum Rules and open a new thread for that.

 

[internetjoko]

Thank you for your words and thank you for your blog, I liked it. But I have a few questions to ask you:

Why do you ask us, sinners, to prove that the Catholic Church is the one founded by Jesus? I understand your point, but you should look beyond our human frailties and faults and see the Hand of God at work through the centuries through the Catholic Church. Don’t reject it for us sinners, accept it for Jesus, His Apostles, the Popes and the Saints. There you have enough proof to come to the conclusion that the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Jesus. Are you are like Saint Thomas, “I’ll believe when I SEE you being saint”? Remember, “Happy are those who have not seen and believe.” (John 20:29)

It’s true we must be the light of the world, but we are not perfect and we are not saints, we are called to be saints but we fail misserable not once, but many many times, and even if we do, even if there are bad lay Catholics, bad priests and bad bishops that doesn’t mean the Catholic Church is not the one established by Jesus Himself. Saint Paul said “Our battle is not against human forces but against the rulers and authorities and their dark powers that govern this world. We are struggling against the spirits and supernatural forces of evil” (Ephesians 6:12). I’m not making excuses, we struggle day to day to keep our head over the waters. I ask you to turn your eyes to our Saints, not to our sinners.

In your post you mention the saints and you thank them. But when you say that “we are His Body”, are you calling all the Christian church denominations on the face of the Earth “His Body”? Are all the Christian church denominations “the Church”? I ask in light of what one of our saints said:

“What the soul is to man’s body, the Holy Spirit is to the Body of Christ, which is the Church. The Holy Spirit does in the whole Church what the soul does in all members of one body. But see what you must beware of, see what you must take note of, see what you must fear. It happens that in the human body, or rather, off the body, some member, whether hand, finger, or foot, may be cut away. And if a member be cut off, does the soul go with it? When the member was in the body, it lived; and off, its life is lost. So too, a Christian man is Catholic while he lives in the body; cut off, he is made a heretic; the Spirit does not follow an amputated member.” Saint Augustine, Sermons, 267, 4, 391-430 A.D.

We must not forget that Luther cut himself and his followers off the Church.

We must also remember that Jesus told His Apostles (and through them to the Apostles’ successors):

“He who hears you, hears me; and he who rejects you, rejects Me; and he who rejects Me, rejects Him who sent me.” (Luke 10:16)

Do you HEAR them or do you REJECT them? Do you go by what the Apostles’ successors DO or by what they SAY? This is a tricky question because they DO and SAY many things that Jesus and the Apostles did and said, like taking communion (the Eucharist is a GOOD thing to DO) which is rejected by almost all (if not all) of the protestant denominations.

Some of our priest and bishops DO bad things, they SIN. Does the bad behavior (sins) made public of some bad bishops and priests of the Catholic Church speak louder… for you… than the excellent behavior (VIRTUES) of the thousands and thousands of good bishops, priests, nuns and lay Catholics (SAINTS) of the Catholic Church through out its history?

I understand the distinction between the Church and the sinners within it. My plea shouldn’t have included the word prove, because apparently it diverted you away from the heart of my plea.

I understand the distinction because I have had loving, lively Catholics in my life to help me understand. My baptist, Jesus loving mother-in-law has had only 1 connection with a Catholic for her entire life. It was through a friend who’s daughter came to her after she had been sexually abused by the priest she went to for counseling after being sexually abused. As I explore Catholicism and long to include her on my journey, I can’t blame her for being shut down emotionally to the Church because this is all she has ever known of Catholicism. She doesn’t need to hear your apologetic as to why this isn’t the Church’s fault it is a sinners fault. She needs to know a Catholic who loves Christ and others deeply. Who cares for her and who humbles themselves and maybe even apologizes to her on behalf of the Church. I think your Catholic faith will be more effectively shared if it is caught before it is taught.

And to answer your question about the body of Christ, I am not sure. I am seeking the answer to that question and would appreciate your prayers. I do know that my pure-hearted, humble, Jesus-following mother-in-law is closer to the heart of Jesus and therefore his ‘body’ than the Catholic priest who abused that child. I am convinced that one can be visibly in the Church, and so far from it. And similarly one can be an ‘outsider’ of the Church, yet be so much closer than they know.

I think this is at the heart of why protestants tend to say Jesus > Religion. The mistake is made when ones sees the two as mutually exclusive. Every truly good Catholic would agree that Religion without Jesus is useless. But Jesus without his religion is incomplete.

Grace and peace.

Jordan

 

[SteveGC]

I understand the distinction between the Church and the sinners within it. My plea shouldn’t have included the word prove, because apparently it diverted you away from the heart of my plea.

I understand the distinction because I have had loving, lively Catholics in my life to help me understand. My baptist, Jesus loving mother-in-law has had only 1 connection with a Catholic for her entire life. It was through a friend who’s daughter came to her after she had been sexually abused by the priest she went to for counseling after being sexually abused. As I explore Catholicism and long to include her on my journey, I can’t blame her for being shut down emotionally to the Church because this is all she has ever known of Catholicism. She doesn’t need to hear your apologetic as to why this isn’t the Church’s fault it is a sinners fault. She needs to know a Catholic who loves Christ and others deeply. Who cares for her and who humbles themselves and maybe even apologizes to her on behalf of the Church. I think your Catholic faith will be more effectively shared if it is caught before it is taught.

And to answer your question about the body of Christ, I am not sure. I am seeking the answer to that question and would appreciate your prayers. I do know that my pure-hearted, humble, Jesus-following mother-in-law is closer to the heart of Jesus and therefore his ‘body’ than the Catholic priest who abused that child. I am convinced that one can be visibly in the Church, and so far from it. And similarly one can be an ‘outsider’ of the Church, yet be so much closer than they know.

I think this is at the heart of why protestants tend to say Jesus > Religion. The mistake is made when ones sees the two as mutually exclusive. Every truly good Catholic would agree that Religion without Jesus is useless. But Jesus without his religion is incomplete.

Grace and peace.

Jordan

Much wisdom in this ^

 

[Prieldedi]

I understand the distinction between the Church and the sinners within it. My plea shouldn’t have included the word prove, because apparently it diverted you away from the heart of my plea.

I understand the distinction because I have had loving, lively Catholics in my life to help me understand. My baptist, Jesus loving mother-in-law has had only 1 connection with a Catholic for her entire life. It was through a friend who’s daughter came to her after she had been sexually abused by the priest she went to for counseling after being sexually abused. As I explore Catholicism and long to include her on my journey, I can’t blame her for being shut down emotionally to the Church because this is all she has ever known of Catholicism. She doesn’t need to hear your apologetic as to why this isn’t the Church’s fault it is a sinners fault. She needs to know a Catholic who loves Christ and others deeply. Who cares for her and who humbles themselves and maybe even apologizes to her on behalf of the Church. I think your Catholic faith will be more effectively shared if it is caught before it is taught.

And to answer your question about the body of Christ, I am not sure. I am seeking the answer to that question and would appreciate your prayers. I do know that my pure-hearted, humble, Jesus-following mother-in-law is closer to the heart of Jesus and therefore his ‘body’ than the Catholic priest who abused that child. I am convinced that one can be visibly in the Church, and so far from it. And similarly one can be an ‘outsider’ of the Church, yet be so much closer than they know.

I think this is at the heart of why protestants tend to say Jesus > Religion. The mistake is made when ones sees the two as mutually exclusive. Every truly good Catholic would agree that Religion without Jesus is useless. But Jesus without his religion is incomplete.

Grace and peace.

Jordan

I have mentioned in other posts in other threads that my mother was a baptist who converted to catholicism before marrying my father.

I was not diverted from your plea. I understand very well your message, it’s just that I had these questions pop up in my mind when I was reading your post. I thank you again for the way you offered your plea and that you do not see Catholics as others do. I am also sorry about what happened to your mother-in-law’s friend’s daughter.

With so many stories being told about the abuses by priests I see why so many people has turned its back on the Church. But these abuses are not happening just in the Catholic Church, it’s everywhere and the common thread is that people with authority over others are the ones being abusive. Scores of people are being acussed of the same crimes, and they are not unmarried priests, they are married protestant pastors, married teachers, married coaches, married bosses, married family friends.

The Rt. Rev. William Persell, Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Chicago said to his congregation on his Good Friday Sermon in 2002 about these abuses: “We would be naïve and dishonest were we to say this is a Roman Catholic problem and has nothing to do with us because we have married and female priests in our church. Sin and abusive behavior know no ecclesial or other boundaries.”

The error of the young man’s “Hate religion but love Jesus” is to blame the institution for the abuses commited by some of its members, and the percieved wickedness of the Church for having big churches, not feeding the hungry (according to him), without realizing all the good the Catholic Church does around the world, as well as the good done by many protestant churches around the world too.

Tell your mother in law that good Catholic priests outnumber the bad Catholic priests by a lot. Too bad the bad ones are doing too much damage, not just to the victims, but to their Church and their fellow Catholics.

 

[dlynettef]

If it were true that religion causes wars and other violence, then it would be true that non-religious states, like China for example, would be without violence. But that is not the case. Neither was it true that the former USSR was without violence. Neither were the ancient societies of what is now Europe, before Christianity grew there, without violence.

It is just not true that violence is a product of religion. Violence is a product of our fallen human nature. Actually, Christianity is one of very few religions which when introduced to a culture curb violence in any way.