Anti-abortion protest signs - how far is too far?

[seekerz]

Naw I just came over here to stir things up. Frankly I’m tired of talking about it. I think we can all agree that after 2000 posts we are not going to reach any kind of agreement It just appears now that we all want in the last word.

Perhaps we should talk what we do agree on-that this evil must be brought to an end.We can disagree on tactics. but should not disagree on the goal.

That sounds very reasonable to me. Been nice talking to ya.

 

[boppaid]

And?

If you cannot tell the qualifications of someone who will have your child’s life in his or her hands, do you just walk away and trust to luck? Is that good parenting?

In point of fact, you do have a right to question the suitability and qualifications of school personnel and to meet with the school administration and the school board on this issue – and if they don’t satisfy you, you have the right and duty to pull your child out of the public school and provide for their education by other means.

How do you propose someone do that if they have to work full time to earn an income, yet still cannot afford private school? Public school employees are republicans, democrats, prolifers, prochoicers, Christians, Muslums, etc.

 

[boppaid]

I repeat – no one has started a thread attacking those who oppose using these images. But there are three threads attacking people working in the prolife movement for using them.

Um, no, there are three threads going discussing the topic of the morality of using such photos. It’s ridiculous to see those threads as attacks in and of themselves.

 

[holly_potter]

But this is only “what I think” reasoning. Do you have any hard data to back that up?

The people who actually use these photos have said they have had success in dissuading women from having abortions. Assuming they are telling the truth, would we not be pitting a known life saved against a theoretical counter-reaction?

Yes it is a “what I think” reasoning. You have to judge what media works best in which situations. In my situation, graphic signs aren’t effective. In other situations, they have disuaded pregnant women from seeking abortions. It’s up to the person’s judgement as to what the situation calls for, so as to touch as many hearts and/or minds as possible.

So, please don’t get angry. I’d like to repeat what I voted: It depends. It does depend on the situation. I’m not saying “absolutely no graphic photos.” Rather, I’m trusting the jugement of all those pro-life activists out there, and applauding their efforts. Please pray for our campus’ efforts–this is the first time EVER a pro life group has become official. Somebody tried once before, but support fizzled out.

 

[mapleoak]

So putting my child in the care of a bus attendant in irresponsible or do I have a duty to make sure that the attendant on a public school bus is pro-life and willing to educate 5yr olds on what these pictures mean?

If you believe your child is old enough to be facing the world in someone elses care besides your own, I think it would be very wise to know that person, which includes the bus driver.

If the parent is not present and the child is confronted with such graphics while sitting alone on a bus seat, whose emotions are being projected onto her?

There are a lot of other things that may be encountered as well while your child is ‘alone’ on the bus, some of which are quite a bit more worrisome than graphic abortion photos. By the way, I wonder how all these busses with unattended children, and parentless children walking around tend to pop up wherever these signs are being displayed.

I’m an adult and my intimate understanding of pro-life issues (including abortion) are no defense against the reaction elicited when I see those photos. This being the case, I don’t believe that any preparation on this earth can prepare small children to not gag at the sight and what good does that do anyone?

I personally know LOTS of children who have seen these signs and have shown no ill effect whatsoever. How many do you know that have ‘gagged’ when they seen them?

Are you seriously saying that public school personnel should be expected to explain pro-life issues?

Most definitely school personnel should be expected to explain their views on such ‘issues’ among other things. If they are not willing, let the parents beware.

Everyone should be so blessed that they can afford to private or home schooling. Would you have me bankrupt myself to allow your version of freedom of speech?

As a parent, that is entirely your call. Of course you have to believe that school personnel refusing to answer your questions equals bankruptcy.

How do you propose someone do that if they have to work full time to earn an income, yet still cannot afford private school? Public school employees are republicans, democrats, prolifers, prochoicers, Christians, Muslums, etc.

You could home school. This costs very little in terms of money. Are you are seriously saying you cannot afford to teach your children yourself and so are willing to have them scandalized by whomever is willing, no matter their beliefs? Or are you just making hypothetical scenarios?

 

[mapleoak]

Are we talking about the societal norms of Malta? I was talking about them in the US.

Children in Malta are different than children in the US? Interesting. Maybe people in the US should be educating their children properly. Maltan children seem handle this okay.

Female circumcision is a societal norm and considered okay for children in some societies. Child labor and child prostitution are considered okay in some societies. Doesn’t mean I think we should be holding them up as great examples to emulate.

The image processed through the streets of malta is similar to female circumcision in what way? Processing the image through the streets of Malta is deplorable and not a great example to emulate in what way?

 

[mapleoak]

Since PLAL chose to repeat this post on this thread as well as the other one, I will repeat my answer:

As long as those signs are clearly visible and placed far enough in advance of the area that a parent has a reasonable choice to avoid them, then yes, I agree with that. I am not sure how one does this with an airplane towing the pictures overhead or tractor trailer trucks running up and down the highway or around towns.

You might want to consider placing a warning sign off your front lawn which reads: “Warning, life may be encountered beyond this drive”.

 

[boppaid]

Most definitely school personnel should be expected to explain their views on such ‘issues’ among other things. If they are not willing, let the parents beware.

Actually, as someone in public education, we are not allowed to discuss these types of beliefs (or anything political) with the parents. So, I’m not sure where you received the impression that this was okay to do. Maybe a regional thing?

You could home school. This costs very little in terms of money. Are you are seriously saying you cannot afford to teach your children yourself and so are willing to have them scandalized by whomever is willing, no matter their beliefs? Or are you just making hypothetical scenarios?

MANY cannot afford to homeschool as that would mean losing a salary which is essential to the well-being and clothing of their children.

 

[estesbob]

You might want to consider placing a warning sign off your front lawn which reads: “Warning, life may be encountered beyond this drive”.

 

[estesbob]

Since PLAL chose to repeat this post on this thread as well as the other one, I will repeat my answer:

As long as those signs are clearly visible and placed far enough in advance of the area that a parent has a reasonable choice to avoid them, then yes, I agree with that. I am not sure how one does this with an airplane towing the pictures overhead or tractor trailer trucks running up and down the highway or around towns.

And what if they dont?

 

[mapleoak]

Actually, as someone in public education, we are not allowed to discuss these types of beliefs (or anything political) with the parents. So, I’m not sure where you received the impression that this was okay to do. Maybe a regional thing?

Well, if you were not allowed to discuss what your beliefs are with me as a parent, then you would also not be allowed to ‘educate’ my children. Simple. I don’t have much respect at all for public education, and this would only serve to further my disrespect. Again, let the parents beware. It is funny how disgust is raised at billboards and trucks, yet (who knows what the kids will get exposed to in school) these same people don’t hold those entrusted with their childrens’ care accountable.

MANY cannot afford to homeschool as that would mean losing a salary which is essential to the well-being and clothing of their children.

Anyone can afford to homeschool and it certainly doesn’t mean losing a salary ‘essential to the well-being and clothing of their children’. It is a matter of needs over wants.

 

[seekerz]

Anyone can afford to homeschool and it certainly doesn’t mean losing a salary ‘essential to the well-being and clothing of their children’. It is a matter of needs over wants.

What do you suggest a single (never married, widowed, divorced, abandoned) parent do? Go on welfare?

 

[KarenNC]

You could home school. This costs very little in terms of money.

How many children are you homeschooling and how long have you been doing it?

It is theoretically possible, if one has access to a very good library system and is personally well versed in every subject to be taught at every grade level, to homeschool for “very little in terms of money.” That is not the experience of the homeschoolers of my acquaintance, particularly ones with older children (high school range for example) or a large number of children. I would say that it costs less in some cases than many private schools (though not less than some Christian schools subsidized by churches), but not always.

It is going to vary based on the requirements of your state, the availability of up to date instructional books in one’s public library, whether your state allows access to extracurricular or special things like music and sports from the public schools, etc.

We are certainly not homeschooling because it costs less than public school.

Anyone can afford to homeschool and it certainly doesn’t mean losing a salary ‘essential to the well-being and clothing of their children’. It is a matter of needs over wants.

No. Speaking as an active homeschooler, not everyone can afford to homeschool nor is it necessarily the right or best option for everyone even if they can afford it. Certainly there are families out there who homeschool while both parents work, but it can be a very stressful situation on the marriage as they juggle who is home with the kids.

As to whether the school personnel should be expected to be explaining their views on abortion, no, they should not because they aren’t the ones attempting to teach my kindergartner about it. They and the school system (including the Catholic school systems) seem capable of recognizing that the topic is not appropriate for that age group.

 

[boppaid]

Anyone can afford to homeschool and it certainly doesn’t mean losing a salary ‘essential to the well-being and clothing of their children’. It is a matter of needs over wants.

Well, if you consider clothing, food, shelter, and medical expenses wants, I guess you’re right!

 

[mapleoak]

It is theoretically possible, if one has access to a very good library system and is personally well versed in every subject to be taught at every grade level, to homeschool for “very little in terms of money.”

This is entirely untrue. One does not need to be very well versed in every subject to be taught at every grade level. In fact, the older children for the most part, are quite capable of teaching themselves.

That is not the experience of the homeschoolers of my acquaintance, particularly ones with older children (high school range for example) or a large number of children. I would say that it costs less in some cases than many private schools (though not less than some Christian schools subsidized by churches), but not always.

Cost is largely dependent on whether you are using your own materials, using a purchased pre-made curriculum, borrowing materials, and a hundred other factors. Can’t is a defeatist word.

It is going to vary based on the requirements of your state

Nope, the state has no say so in whether I choose to home school or not.

the availability of up to date instructional books in one’s public library, whether your state allows access to extracurricular or special things like music and sports from the public schools, etc.

It sounds like you are saying that if your public library does not have up to date instructional books, and your state forbids (which state btw) access to special things like music and sports, you are at their mercy to subject them to public school.

We are certainly not homeschooling because it costs less than public school.

Who does? Wonder why money was brought up at all.

No. Speaking as an active homeschooler, not everyone can afford to homeschool

How do you as an active homeschooler speak for everyone in what it costs to homeschool?

nor is it necessarily the right or best option for everyone even if they can afford it.

So it is more than a money issue. Some people just shouldn’t home school, right? Actually, anybody that wants to homeschool, can do so. It is a choice, pure and simple. Nobody is forced to use public school and nobody is forced to homeschool, private school, or what have you.

Certainly there are families out there who homeschool while both parents work, but it can be a very stressful situation on the marriage as they juggle who is home with the kids.

Choices. Wants / Needs.

As to whether the school personnel should be expected to be explaining their views on abortion, no, they should not because they aren’t the ones attempting to teach my kindergartner about it.

Kudos to you for being so trusting of strangers! I on the underhand, need to know such things and many other things besides, and probably even then would not trust them.

They and the school system (including the Catholic school systems) seem capable of recognizing that the topic is not appropriate for that age group.

Some think that it is appropriate for schools to hand out condoms and give related ‘information’ as well. Hmm, I wonder where the lack of need for parental approval for abortions fits in this picture.

 

[mapleoak]

What do you suggest a single (never married, widowed, divorced, abandoned) parent do? Go on welfare?

A better question is, what will you do when you see a single parent struggling to raise his kids. Tell him he should put his kids in public school?

 

[seekerz]

This is entirely untrue. One does not need to be very well versed in every subject to be taught at every grade level. In fact, the older children for the most part, are quite capable of teaching themselves.
Cost is largely dependent on whether you are using your own materials, using a purchased pre-made curriculum, borrowing materials, and a hundred other factors. Can’t is a defeatist word.

Nope, the state has no say so in whether I choose to home school or not.
It sounds like you are saying that if your public library does not have up to date instructional books, and your state forbids (which state btw) access to special things like music and sports, you are at their mercy to subject them to public school.

Who does? Wonder why money was brought up at all.

How do you as an active homeschooler speak for everyone in what it costs to homeschool?So it is more than a money issue. Some people just shouldn’t home school, right? Actually, anybody that wants to homeschool, can do so. It is a choice, pure and simple. Nobody is forced to use public school and nobody is forced to homeschool, private school, or what have you.

Choices. Wants / Needs.

Kudos to you for being so trusting of strangers! I on the underhand, need to know such things and many other things besides, and probably even then would not trust them.

Some think that it is appropriate for schools to hand out condoms and give related ‘information’ as well. Hmm, I wonder where the lack of need for parental approval for abortions fits in this picture.

Would you be willing to pay more in taxes so that the government can pay a single parent’s essential bills (you know like food, medical expenses and education supplies) while he/she home-schools a child?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Would you be willing to pay more in taxes so that the government can pay a single parent’s essential bills (you know like food, medical expenses and education supplies) while he/she home-schools a child?

We already do.

 

[mapleoak]

Well, if you consider clothing, food, shelter, and medical expenses wants, I guess you’re right!

No, you are equating homeschooling (or the decision to school your children in any way other than public education) with going hungry and naked.

 

[estesbob]

Would you be willing to pay more in taxes so that the government can pay a single parent’s essential bills (you know like food, medical expenses and education supplies) while he/she home-schools a child?

It would be better to give parents vouchers so they can send their children to school of their choice.