Anti-abortion protest signs - how far is too far?

[vern_humphrey]

Vern,
You are probably the rudest poster I have ever seen.

But not rude enough to say to you, “You are probably the rudest poster I have ever seen.”

Just because someone doesn’t agree with holding graphic posters outside abortion clinics doesn’t make them pro-abortion. I don’t necessarily think it is most effective - does that make me any less of a pro-life Catholic? I have brought my children up their whole lives knowing the evils of ANY abortion. I have given my money to prolife groups. Yet I don’t stand outside clinic doors (I give my charity time to other works but I respect those who do give of their time to demonstrating against abortion.). I suspect you might call me a hypocrite or worse, simply because I don’t agree with you in every nuance.

I don’t care if you agree with me. That’s your right. But I really don’t think it’s appropriate to attack other Catholics who are working against abortion.

You need Jesus in your life.

We all do.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Vern you don’t even realise what you are doing and have done on several threads. You are being abrasive.

I’m sorry – but the attacks on Catholics who use graphic images are pretty abrasive, too.

Many people here think you consider them to be pro-choice just because they don’t agree with you.

Well, they’d be wrong, wouldn’t they? Because I have not only not accused anybody of being pro-choice, I have repeatedly stated I accuse nobody of being pro-choice.

I am going to do what others from other threads have done and ignore you. I do not take kindly to the insinuations and accusations you throw around and

You seem to be throwing around insinuations and accusations at me.

I do not like how you are unwilling to debate without accusing or without acknowledging that other people have valid opinions also.

There are well-recognized standards for validity. Meet them and I will acknowledge you are right.

But try to do it without attacking people just because you don’t like their approach to fighting abortion, would you?

 

[Linnyo]

I’m sorry – but the attacks on Catholics who use graphic images are pretty abrasive, too.

Well, they’d be wrong, wouldn’t they? Because I have not only not accused anybody of being pro-choice, I have repeatedly stated I accuse nobody of being pro-choice.

You seem to be throwing around insinuations and accusations at me.

There are well-recognized standards for validity. Meet them and I will acknowledge you are right.

But try to do it without attacking people just because you don’t like their approach to fighting abortion, would you?

you are not fighting abortion - you are merely fighting people on here! BTW thans for the apology at the beginning - you are forgiven.

 

[vern_humphrey]

you are not fighting abortion - you are merely fighting people on here!

And that’s different from what others (no names, no pack drill) on the opposite side of the argument are doing, how?

What prevents them from saying, “I don’t use those pictures. But to each his own?”

BTW thans for the apology at the beginning - you are forgiven.

De nada.

 

[Linnyo]

And that’s different from what others (no names, no pack drill) on the opposite side of the argument are doing, how?

What prevents them from saying, “I don’t use those pictures. But to each his own?”

De nada.

They are doing what they consider to be their duty. They are pointing out that by doing damage to children who are born is sinful too. And traumatizing them is damage. Short term for most but long term for a few. And it isn’t right when there are other ways such as showing the pictures at an appropriate age (childbearing age) Or showing pictures of babies living within the womb. Prayer, financial support for people who don’t have the network for raising children, providing support networks etc.
Out of interest, are you the type that blows up clinics to prevent abortions? Do you consider that to be an acceptable way to save babies? That would save babies but have harmful consequences. I am curious - would you go that far?

 

[vern_humphrey]

They are doing what they consider to be their duty.

And so are the people who use the pictures. Are they not entitled to the same courtesy?

They are pointing out that by doing damage to children who are born is sinful too. And traumatizing them is damage.

No, they say children are being “damaged.” That is, as we already agreed, a matter of opinion, not of evidence.

Short term for most but long term for a few. And it isn’t right when there are other ways such as showing the pictures at an appropriate age (childbearing age)

But first we need to show that there is damage.

And second, by the time people reach that age, their value systems are already formed – it’s too little, too late.

Or showing pictures of babies living within the womb. Prayer, financial support for people who don’t have the network for raising children, providing support networks etc.

And most of them do all that – so why attack them so bitterly on this one issue?

Out of interest, are you the type that blows up clinics to prevent abortions? Do you consider that to be an acceptable way to save babies? That would save babies but have harmful consequences. I am curious - would you go that far?

Pardon me?!?

Were you not offended when you thought someone accused you of being pro-abortion?

So you realize how offensive and uncalled for the suggestion you just made is.

 

[Linnyo]

And so are the people who use the pictures. Are they not entitled to the same courtesy?

No, they say children are being “damaged.” That is, as we already agreed, a matter of opinion, not of evidence.

But first we need to show that there is damage.

And second, by the time people reach that age, their value systems are already formed – it’s too little, too late.

And most of them do all that – so why attack them so bitterly on this one issue?

Pardon me?!?

Were you not offended when you thought someone accused you of being pro-abortion?

So you realize how offensive and uncalled for the suggestion you just made is.

It wasn’t a suggestion. Some people do do that because they stronly believe that to be right. They probabaly share the same conviction that they are doing it for the right reasons. I was merely asking if you were one of them not telling you that you were. As for discussin proof that some children are damaged - there has been evidence from some of the posters an it was clear that that was real and did have evidence as the medical bills suggested! Also, values can be shaped on other ways without exposing children to such violence! Long before reaching the age of childbearing. It is a families job to nurture thes attitudes and values.

 

[boppaid]

Correct me if I am wrong, as I am certainly not an authority on Catholic hagiography, but aren’t there examples of saints who were canonized specifically because of their incredible intercessory prayer practices and the results thereof? I also believe there are Catholic orders whose primary purpose is intercessory prayer?

I guess they should’ve known that prayer alone isn’t “good enough”.

 

[mapleoak]

I guess they should’ve known that prayer alone isn’t “good enough”.

Feel free to start a new thread on whether prayer by itself is all that is necessary.

 

[sprout]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenNC
Correct me if I am wrong, as I am certainly not an authority on Catholic hagiography, but aren’t there examples of saints who were canonized specifically because of their incredible intercessory prayer practices and the results thereof? I also believe there are Catholic orders whose primary purpose is intercessory prayer?

yes, they’re cloistered i.e. Discalced Carmelites and Monastic orders who devote themselves to contemplative life, silence, and prayer for the whole church. newadvent.org/cathen/04329a.htm

the real heart of our life is contemplative prayer, the silent, loving person-to-Person relationship with Jesus Christ which makes of the one who prays herself an offering… a living prayer, that draws all that she is and does into Jesus’ saving work in a powerful and mysterious way. The life of Carmel is modeled on the life of Mary at Nazareth… the quiet, hidden, worshipful service of God and His Will in intimate union with Jesus… carrying out her unique role in the history of salvation.

 

[vern_humphrey]

It wasn’t a suggestion.

No, it was a deliberate and calculated insult.

You were offended when you thought someone suggested you were pro-abortion. So you know what an offensive and unchristian act it is to suggest something like that.

Shame on you!

 

[Linnyo]

No, it was a deliberate and calculated insult.

You were offended when you thought someone suggested you were pro-abortion. So you know what an offensive and unchristian act it is to suggest something like that.

Shame on you!

Well then you know how the rest of us feel when you suggest that we are supporters of murder! What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

Vern I am getting so angry with you. I have seen other people getting angry with you. It amazes me how you can make people so angry so easily. Is that deliberate? Is it? You think it is ok to throw around insults and accusations then you deny that anything you have ever said comes across like that. It amazes me. You are clever with words and everything you say has criticism in it but if somebody dares to do to you what you do to them then, of course, you have done nothing wrong - everybody else is at fault!

I think the moderators should shut down this thread now because it is apparent that you are not the only person who feels offended and very angry as many of us are becoming rather childish! Grrrr! Some people make me want to stamp my feet and scream!!

 

[vern_humphrey]

Well then you know how the rest of us feel when you suggest that we are supporters of murder!

When did I suggest you supported murder?

But thank you for that – you leave no doubt that you deliberately intended your remarks as an insult

Shame on you!

 

[Linnyo]

When did I suggest you supported murder?

But thank you for that – you leave no doubt that you deliberately intended your remarks as an insult

Shame on you!

Check out the edited version!

 

[KarenNC]

There are well-recognized standards for validity. Meet them and I will acknowledge you are right.

Could you either list them for us here or give us a link to them, please? That will let us be sure we are all discussing the same standards.

 

[KarenNC]

What prevents them from saying, “I don’t use those pictures. But to each his own?”

De nada.

The fact that “your own” actions affect “my own” child without my consent.

If all of the people with these pictures were only showing them to their own young children or only to the children whose parents wanted these pictures shown or who had avoided reasonable attempts to prevent young children from seeing them, I would have no argument whatsoever. I would think it was strange and not necessarily good for the children, but I would not argue their right to do so.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Could you either list them for us here or give us a link to them, please? That will let us be sure we are all discussing the same standards.

One of your future assignements will be “Research for consumers – how to tell valid studies from invalid.”

But finish the assignment you have, first.

 

[vern_humphrey]

The fact that “your own” actions affect “my own” child without my consent.

No, your reaction to things affects your child.

Just looking around at Mass this morning, I could see at least three gory, graphic images – all in full round, not flat pictures and one of them life-sized.

Yet not a single child was disturbed by those images.

 

[KarenNC]

One of your future assignements will be “Research for consumers – how to tell valid studies from invalid.”

But finish the assignment you have, first.

Understood perfectly.

By saying that there are standards by which one will accept arguments as valid, but then either refusing or being unable to provide a reference for those standards, one can continue to say that any argument presented fails to meet these claimed standards.

 

[KarenNC]

No, your reaction to things affects your child.

Just looking around at Mass this morning, I could see at least three gory, graphic images – all in full round, not flat pictures and one of them life-sized.

Yet not a single child was disturbed by those images.

A) Every child in that place was brought to view those images by their parents and with their parents’ consent to view those images.

B) Are we talking posters of scenes from Gibson’s “The Passion,” photographs of decapitated and dismembered children or a standard Catholic crucifix?

If you would be willing to provide photos of those particular images, then we can discuss whether they are roughly equivalent to the photos shown here abortionno.org/Resources/pictures.html (warning, these are indeed very graphic images and you will want to exercise discretion if viewing them where children are likely to see them on the computer).