Anti-Catholic double standard? Or not?

[BelFarfalla]

This is a good commentary… let’s discuss…

video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?g=248EEE61-C23B-47DD-A889-218E3D05229B&t=m555&f=06/64&p=hotvideo_celebrity&fg=&GT1=10056

 

[Singinbeauty]

That was interesting but I have to agree with the point made towards the end there… I think sometimes catholics like being the victim. So anything, whether from their own or from an outside source, that seems like a criticism or ‘bashing’ gets screamed about.

And I do agree with the gentleman that if the priests who molested those children had been dealt with better and the matters weren’t initially swept under the rug you wouldn’t have the issue today of having the jokes and such against the catholic church as a whole.

But that is just my opinion…

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Sadly, Bill Donahue should not have gone after Robin because there really wasnt anything there. The other “Catholic” made some fair points in that video, but at the end exposed himself with his final comments.

There is a double standard in regards to how Christians, especially Catholics, are treated in the media, but this case with Robin Williams was too small to go after and I pray Bill didnt hurt his credibility by having that “interview” because he is a good guy and makes many good points.

 

[Renton405]

the thing that angers me is that sexual abuse is going on also in protestant churchs and Jewish synagogs and the media won’t even think of putting those reports on the media…

Why dosen’t the media put up the reports that have happened in other churches?? id really like to know…

so far on reformation.com there have been 800 accounts of sexual abuse in protestant churchs… And there have been many reports in jewish synagogs. Can you imagine how the world would react if the media put up a sexual report of a Jewish rabbi?? Do you see people making jokes about them??

 

[blessedtoo]

Sadly, Bill Donahue should not have gone after Robin because there really wasnt anything there.

The responsibility for bringing this to the public’s attention was not laid on Bill this time. In the beginning of the interview, they state that newsbusters.org broke the story and called Williams’ little act “anti-Catholic bigotry.” So I would grant some clemency to Bill on this one.

I think this discussion was a perfect example of the conflict we face everyday within the Church. While I can’t tell for sure what Steve Adabato believes on the abortion and female ordination issues (although I can guess, based on the many debates I’ve seen him engaged in), the bigger issue is that it is just these dissenting opinions which are often tolerated within the Church that make it so hard to argue in Her defense. I think Bill did a great job and presented himself as reasonable. I wish they had given him a bit more time to respond to that last little bit.

 

[BelFarfalla]

the thing that angers me is that sexual abuse is going on also in protestant churchs and Jewish synagogs and the media won’t even think of putting those reports on the media…

Why dosen’t the media put up the reports that have happened in other churches?? id really like to know…

so far on reformation.com there have been 800 accounts of sexual abuse in protestant churchs… And there have been many reports in jewish synagogs. Can you imagine how the world would react if the media put up a sexual report of a Jewish rabbi?? Do you see people making jokes about them??

The same problem exists in Islam. In an 18 month period in Pakistan 2500 case of molestation of boys by Imam at the Islamic schools have been filed. The Heads of the Islamic Imams community to the courts to back off. All people who tried to support the victims have been threatened to shut up. But nope that press won’t touch it.

 

[St_Violet]

it’s amazing how being anti catholic in protestant churches have become a trend.

 

[THutch04]

the thing that angers me is that sexual abuse is going on also in protestant churchs and Jewish synagogs and the media won’t even think of putting those reports on the media…

Why dosen’t the media put up the reports that have happened in other churches?? id really like to know…

so far on reformation.com there have been 800 accounts of sexual abuse in protestant churchs… And there have been many reports in jewish synagogs. Can you imagine how the world would react if the media put up a sexual report of a Jewish rabbi?? Do you see people making jokes about them??

Just speculation, but maybe the reason it’s not reported is because no other churches have an organization like the Catholic Church…like, if it’s abuse within churches that don’t have a hierarchy, then you could say that it’s just some sick individuals (not saying that makes it ANY better). But if it’s in a church where there’s such a strong hierarchy, sexual abuse by clergy makes it look like it’s being condoned by the entire Church.

 

[BelFarfalla]

it’s amazing how being anti catholic in protestant churches have become a trend.

I think that prodestants have always been anti-Catholic… thats why they broke away from the RCC

 

[SORROWS]

That was interesting but I have to agree with the point made towards the end there… I think sometimes catholics like being the victim. So anything, whether from their own or from an outside source, that seems like a criticism or ‘bashing’ gets screamed about.

And I do agree with the gentleman that if the priests who molested those children had been dealt with better and the matters weren’t initially swept under the rug you wouldn’t have the issue today of having the jokes and such against the catholic church as a whole.

But that is just my opinion…

What? How do Catholics “like being the victim”? Catholics have shown incredible tolerance toward the constant bashing we get in movies and media. You don’t see Catholics squacking all the time like other groups demanding someone be fired, or chopped up.

I am proud to be a Catholic and it is truly devastating to constantly read or hear negative stories regarding the Church.

You, as a non catholic are in a Catholic Forum. Please show some respect and be more charitable in your comments.

 

[St_Violet]

you know after watching the short debate, it seems if the younger gentlment who was debating with the older gentlement was putting words into Robin Williams mouth, now I can understand where he’s comming of some of what he said, but the older gentlmen is correct by saying that it is not okay to make a sweeping comment, the younger one claimed that Williams was only attacking the hierachy that failed. but I fail to hear Robin Williams say the word “hierachy” or " hierachy that failed" , he said priests, I think that Robin Williams just happened to accidently go too far while doing what he loves, I understand that it happens, so I do not hold a grudge against him, and will continue to watch his movies.

 

[Singinbeauty]

the thing that angers me is that sexual abuse is going on also in protestant churchs and Jewish synagogs and the media won’t even think of putting those reports on the media…

Why dosen’t the media put up the reports that have happened in other churches?? id really like to know…

so far on reformation.com there have been 800 accounts of sexual abuse in protestant churchs… And there have been many reports in jewish synagogs. Can you imagine how the world would react if the media put up a sexual report of a Jewish rabbi?? Do you see people making jokes about them??

Actually there have been reports about sexual molestation in protestant churches around here but I think that a valid point was made on that video. Because the protestant churches, at least the ones around here, didn’t try to hide it or settle out of court it was taken as just a horrible thing that that ONE man did… because the CC tried to hide things and just ‘make them go away’ it seemed like they were condoning it. Especially when the priest would just be transferred to a different parish instead of going to jail…

 

[Singinbeauty]

You, as a non catholic are in a Catholic Forum. Please show some respect and be more charitable in your comments.

I am sorry I offended you. Not intentional at all. I was just commenting on what I have seen. I should point out that I meant to say SOME catholics like being the ‘victim’. So any dirty thing said about the CC gets completely blown out of proportion…

And I was charitable… Thank you. I was just making an observation. How that is uncharitable I am not sure. Sheesh, some people can be so sensitive…

 

[kell0618]

I would like to provide a link that I came across on the Christian Science Monitor website. I find the info. contained within is very enlightening, especially in regard to who is sexually abusing whom and how private settlements are resolved, etc.

Sex Abuse Spans Spectrum of Churches

I suggest that everyone bookmark this page as it is a common point of contention among non-Catholics and Catholics alike. On the ‘other’ forum by anti-Catholics, the allegations surface on a daily basis irregardless what the topic being discussed.

Peace be with you,

Kelly

 

[kell0618]

Sheesh, some people can be so sensitive…

Yep.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Actually there have been reports about sexual molestation in protestant churches around here but I think that a valid point was made on that video. Because the protestant churches, at least the ones around here, didn’t try to hide it or settle out of court it was taken as just a horrible thing that that ONE man did… because the CC tried to hide things and just ‘make them go away’ it seemed like they were condoning it. Especially when the priest would just be transferred to a different parish instead of going to jail…

People here, myself included, have posted news stories of Protestant Churches hiding and covering up for pedophiles. But I guess you chose to ignore those. I am personally aware of a few cases of this.
You are only aware of the local protestant churches which are not covering up abuse and protecting abusers. I’d put my money on there being ones who are. I’ve read studies of how prevalent child abuse is in Protestant youth bible camps… And how it is covered up to save face.
JW’s have become well known for this. They have 42,000 cases that they refuse to even look into. They have sued newspapers in Europe who reported abuse by their leaders… They sued to shut up the newspapers in an attempt to hide the abuse.
Why do you think that settling out of court means anything about guilt? Protestant Churches do that too. There is that recent report of 260 cases being filed with just one insurance company of out the many that insure Protestant Churches in this matter.
The cases where the RCC settled out of court were civil cases not criminal cases. The purpose of the cases was not to determine guilt but to get money. The RCC either had to pay the costs of a trail or just settle. It is cheaper to just settle. MD’s do this all the time. It is no longer considered proof of an MD being an MD if they are sued. People do it all the time just to get money.
Few of the cases against RCC priests have ever resulted in criminal charges… only civil suits for money.
In the few cases where criminal actions was prosecuted, what is the point of fighting a civil case. IF the perp is found guilty, the only smart thing to do is to settle out of court. This hardly hides anything. The cases are already public record.
My acting ‘holier then thou’ on this, protestants are enabling the cover-ups in their congregations. They are going on I know this for a fact as I now cases where this has happened.

 

[Singinbeauty]

People here, myself included, have posted news stories of Protestant Churches hiding and covering up for pedophiles. But I guess you chose to ignore those. I am personally aware of a few cases of this.

I apologize, I must have missed them. Not intentional. I will go back…

You are only aware of the local protestant churches which are not covering up abuse and protecting abusers. I’d put my money on there being ones who are. I’ve read studies of how prevalent child abuse is in Protestant youth bible camps… And how it is covered up to save face.

Again, not aware of these.

JW’s have become well known for this. They have 42,000 cases that they refuse to even look into. They have sued newspapers in Europe who reported abuse by their leaders… They sued to shut up the newspapers in an attempt to hide the abuse.

JW’s don’t believe that Christ is God so therefore shouldn’t be considered protestant because by definition they aren’t Christian… Just an FYI…

Why do you think that settling out of court means anything about guilt? Protestant Churches do that too. There is that recent report of 260 cases being filed with just one insurance company of out the many that insure Protestant Churches in this matter.

Because the act is HEINOUS. It is horrible and should ALWAYS be treated as a criminal offense. If a church settles out of court (catholic or protestant) and then lets the abuser free or transfers him/her to another location then they diminish the horror that that child went through. The abuser should be punished by law! And it is horrible to think otherwise…

The cases where the RCC settled out of court were civil cases not criminal cases. The purpose of the cases was not to determine guilt but to get money. The RCC either had to pay the costs of a trail or just settle. It is cheaper to just settle. MD’s do this all the time. It is no longer considered proof of an MD being an MD if they are sued. People do it all the time just to get money.

Maybe I am too close to this considering what I went through as a child but ANY man or woman claiming to be under the authority of God should pay for what he/she did to that child. And if there is ANY accusation against this person the church should IMMEDIATELY remove them from their post until a proper investigation can be issued. It just seems to me that settling is sweeping it under the rug. I say if the parents just want money go to trial because God protects His own and if they are lying it will come out.

Few of the cases against RCC priests have ever resulted in criminal charges… only civil suits for money.

That just makes me so sad… if a priest or a pastor has done this to a child they should burn in Hell… Guess it is a good thing I am not God… LOL…

In the few cases where criminal actions was prosecuted, what is the point of fighting a civil case. IF the perp is found guilty, the only smart thing to do is to settle out of court. This hardly hides anything. The cases are already public record.

What??? Why have the church pay for the evil that the man/woman does? This person needs help and needs to go to jail for violating that child! A monetary fine is like a slap on the wrist and a ‘don’t do it again’… The abuser needs to be taught a lesson…

My acting ‘holier then thou’ on this, protestants are enabling the cover-ups in their congregations. They are going on I know this for a fact as I now cases where this has happened.

Not in my congregation and if it ever happens I will be the FIRST to step up and scream at the top of my lungs for blood… no child should have to endure this and to have the abuser get off with pretty much just a warning and a transfer to another location where they can do it again is absolutely HORRIBLE…

 

[BelFarfalla]

I apologize, I must have missed them. Not intentional. I will go back…

They were posted on another thread. Here is just one article on deep rooted sexual abuse and church leaders hiding it for decades.
The Chicago-based Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests has started a campaign to call attention to alleged sex abuse committed by Southern Baptist ministers and concealed by churches.
msnbc.msn.com/id/17265721/from/RS.1/
The above article is just the start… this organization is going after all Churches, regardless of denomination. What I want know is why there has not been a all out media frenzy over the Southern Baptists… The article only mentions a small percentage of the abuse cases they have been accused of hiding.

Again, not aware of these.

There is apparently a lot of info that has come up stating that pedophiles specifically target bible camps and Christian camps to work as camp counselors. Many of these camps, having learned from mess at the RCC, now do background checks on their counselors and watch them more closely. By the way, the same goes no secular schools and camps. Our children are more likely to be molested by their school teachers then by a any clergy.

JW’s don’t believe that Christ is God so therefore shouldn’t be considered protestant because by definition they aren’t Christian… Just an FYI…

You’re right. I’m quite aware of the theology differences between the JW’s and protestants. I included them because they generally think of them selves as protestants and Christians. And… I’ve had many many JW’s beat up on me about the RCC issue with child molestation. As a matter of fact, the reason I know about the Watchtower hiding child molestation cases, intimidating victims, etc is because I researched it when a practically uncharitable group of JW’s were trying to figuratively draw blood from Catholics over the issue.

Because the act is HEINOUS. It is horrible and should ALWAYS be treated as a criminal offense. If a church settles out of court (catholic or protestant) and then lets the abuser free or transfers him/her to another location then they diminish the horror that that child went through. The abuser should be punished by law! And it is horrible to think otherwise…

You are again mixing civil and criminal cases. A child abuse victim has a right to file both. Generally a person will file a criminal case. Once the criminal case is completed and the perp found guilty then the victim will sue the Church for hundreds of thousands to millions in damages. If a victim or the victims family only sought monetary compensation and did not file a criminal case… then the fault of that is on them. Most of the cases brought against the RCC happened 15 or 20 years ago. There was no evidence. The alleged victim had no case. But that did not stop them from suing the RCC.
If a priest molested my child I would not go first to the church. I would go first to the police and child protective services. Why did the parents of all those victims and the victims themselves not file charges? Most fo the victims of priests were not young children… The vast majority were boys between the ages of 13-17. IMHO, any victim’s family, or teen victims who did not go immediately to the police when a priest molested their child is culpable for all the subsequent children that priest molested. Victims and their families have a responsibility too to help get the perv off the streets.
There are some cases, even ones that old, where the victims had evidence or the priests admitted to their crimes and those were pursued criminally.
There is one thing that I will say in the defense of the RCC. In almost ever case they did what was considered proper procedure at the time in that a priest who molested a child as sent to a monastery/hospital where priests with issues are treated. Priests were returned to duty ONLY if the psychiatric physicians stated that the priest was cured of pedophilia. People, including the medical profession, used to believe that pedophilia could be cured. So the ‘cured’ the pedophiliac priest. And the RCC followed the findings of the medical staff. Today they know better, we all do. We all know now that pedophilia is a form of mental illness that can never be cured. And the RCC knows better how to handle it… Call the police and defrock the offending priest once he his found guilty or admits to the crime.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Maybe I am too close to this considering what I went through as a child but ANY man or woman claiming to be under the authority of God should pay for what he/she did to that child. And if there is ANY accusation against this person the church should IMMEDIATELY remove them from their post until a proper investigation can be issued. It just seems to me that settling is sweeping it under the rug. I say if the parents just want money go to trial because God protects His own and if they are lying it will come out.

I don’t think you will find anyone here who will argue with this.
Again, settling a civil case is not related to the criminal case. A victim can file both cases.
Unfortunately, those who lie just for the money very often get away with it and ruin the lives of everyone they accuse and many more. How does an innocent priest today defend himself when someone accuses him of molesting 15 or 20 years ago? He is automatically guilty. Society is not very likely to believe it when a man says that he is not guilty when accused of child molestation. And now, if a priest is accused the man has no chance of redemption even if he is innocent. Even priests today who have never been accused of child molestation are assumed to be child molesters by the population at large.
"BelFarfalla:

Few of the cases against RCC priests have ever resulted in criminal charges… only civil suits for money…

That just makes me so sad… if a priest or a pastor has done this to a child they should burn in Hell… Guess it is a good thing I am not God… LOL…

You won’t get any argument from me on this. As I said earlier, the victim and/or their family share in the responsibility of all subsequent victims if they do not pursue a criminal case as soon as possible after the abuse. I’ve worked a lot with children who are victims of child abuse. I have no sympathy at all for abusers.
"BelFarfalla:

In the few cases where criminal actions was prosecuted, what is the point of fighting a civil case. IF the perp is found guilty, the only smart thing to do is to settle out of court. This hardly hides anything. The cases are already public record.

What??? Why have the church pay for the evil that the man/woman does? This person needs help and needs to go to jail for violating that child! A monetary fine is like a slap on the wrist and a ‘don’t do it again’… The abuser needs to be taught a lesson…

You misunderstood me. Re-read the first sentence… I said that the criminal action was already prosecuted, I assumed that the perp is behind bars, hopefully for life. This is the second phase. Victims have typically gone after the Church for monetary damages too. Why? Because they can. Because the courts and juries will award money. Because they claim a need for money to compensate for psychiatric care, etc.

Not in my congregation and if it ever happens I will be the FIRST to step up and scream at the top of my lungs for blood… no child should have to endure this and to have the abuser get off with pretty much just a warning and a transfer to another location where they can do it again is absolutely HORRIBLE…

We had a case here when my son was in Catholic elementary school. In one of the other catholic schools in town, a priest was pimping out a couple of his junior high students. Some students told their parents. The parents called the police and the Church. The church cleared campus around the priest’s house. And then the cops went in. The priest was caught in action and now is in prison. That is how it’s done.

 

[mark_a]

What??? Why have the church pay for the evil that the man/woman does?

We’re glad you are looking out for the Church’s money. But the Church pays when the leadership fails. Maybe this is kinda like due diligence laws.

This person needs help and needs to go to jail for violating that child! A monetary fine is like a slap on the wrist and a ‘don’t do it again’… The abuser needs to be taught a lesson…

I’m going to catch hades for this, but here goes. . . .

Some who claim they were abused are seeking only money.

Habitual abusers are a different case than one timers. All the factors need to considered we step in and do God’s job damning anyone to hell.

Someone in the Church one time stated that the road to hell is paved with bishops’ skulls.