Anti Catholic Facebook rant by Jessa Duggar's boyfriend

[gam197]

Yes, I agree 100%. Education has been the hallmark of Catholicism. It is one thing that I appreciate about it. The number of saints that have started schools etc is huge and almost never ending. No time at any time is anyone discouraged about becoming educated, well informed etc. Anti-education seen in some Protestant groups like the Amish and other Anabaptist groups are an anomaly in Christianity as a whole. I think Bill Gothard borrowed ideas from the Amish, along with his big emphasis that woman do not work outside the home if married. I have nothing against parents that decide to homeschool their children. The ATI program though is very shaky. It does not result in a high school diploma, in fact those that were raised in it, have had to go on and get GED’s if they decided to continue in secondary education. The ATI program is based on Matthew 5-7 and emphasizes wisdom with various (normal) subjects thrown in. When children were done with it which is usually in their teens, they were suppose to get apprenterships which usually meant they went on to work for Bill Gothard at his various ministry centers. It is kinda a scam in my opinion. This is why you see the older Duggar children basically floundering around. The oldest son who is married is working for Family Research Center on the coats of Jim Bob’s political connections. The other two girls are married or getting there. The oldest girls dabbled in on line and community college and is doing camp counseling. The other boy is selling used cars. It isn’t a very prosperous future with the added pressure of having lots of children to boot.

I think yu are right about it being restrictive but I would bet they would come back say catholics are the ultra strict because of birth control,

Looked at wikipedia…

Gothard doesn’t like rock and roll well many don’t but does he like music? It says he doesn’t like Christian rock.

He doesn’t like toys like Cabbage patch. Just guessing on this one. Probably doesn’t like the commercialization of children toys but many toys like lego help to learn building skills.Cabbage patch are one of the few “soft body” dolls kids like.

I like evangelicals because they do have a great faith but am concerned about some of their other thoughts on say “home births” and such.

Seems like he has problems of his own as he is a single man but is accused of molesting young girls. Make room, Bob Barker.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Sounds like typical protestant fundamentalism.

One of his criticisms is one I have heard of late that has puzzled me. That Mary needing a savior means that apparently Mary sinned. Why is that the case? is that all jesus came to earth to do is to forgive our sins? Even if Mary was sinless she still still needed Christ to become incarnate, for the divinity to unite itself with the humanity to show us how far God is willing to go for us.

 

[robwar]

Sounds like typical protestant fundamentalism.

One of his criticisms is one I have heard of late that has puzzled me. That Mary needing a savior means that apparently Mary sinned. Why is that the case? is that all jesus came to earth to do is to forgive our sins? Even if Mary was sinless she still still needed Christ to become incarnate, for the divinity to unite itself with the humanity to show us how far God is willing to go for us.

I’ve heard Catholic apologist explain on the immaculate conception of Mary which is what I think Ben was objecting to, is that Mary was pre-saved or protected from original sin in order for her to be able to become the Mother of God. Of course, Theotokos would be another thing they would misunderstand and would claim that we are saying Mary is a goddess. Because Mary is Jesus mother, that doesn’t make her a goddess by any means. I think it was the immaculate conception that he was trying to object to. However, fundamentalists like him fail to look at the greeting of Mary by Gabriel which is “hail full of grace …” The critical question here is what does “full of grace” mean or really mean. Being a follower of Gothardism, Ben and the Duggars would use Gothard’s definition which is grace is the ability to do God’s will and one grows in grace by obeying God which is not the Catholic or even traditional Protestant which is unmeritted favor. They fail to realize that Mary didn’t earn giving birth to Jesus, she wasn’t choosen because she became that good. Mary was divinely appointed, pre-saved from original sin and didn’t do anything but say yes of her own free will. People like the Duggars have no background in doctrine and theology so when they come up against real Catholic Christian doctrine, they retreat to the usual “that’s not in the Bible” have nothing left to offer.

 

[robwar]

I find it curious that you say this…because I have seen many Catholics here on CAF warn other Catholics not to read certain books–even books by religious and Christianity scholars–if they are not Catholic-approved…or warn them not to go to other religious ceremonies/churches to learn about what others are thinking and believing and why…for fear it would sway them.

That to me is not so much different than telling a child they cannot go to college.
It is cutting someone off from learning about other people, worlds, beliefs, communities, and histories.
If the Duggars and their denomination discourage their children away from college, I assume it is for the same reason–to not have them out in the secular world for fear that they might stray from the pack.
Same diff.

.

There is a hugh difference between warning others not to read certain books and following a man that teaches going to college is evil, single children need to stay home till married, women are not at all for any reason to work outside of the home and sets up a flimsey homeschooling program that only prepares one to work in his ministry. Big difference and there is no comparison. The first isn’t telling young people to be go on and get an education. I don’t get your point. It is ridiculous at best. The Duggars follow the later.

 

[gam197]

There is a hugh difference between warning others not to read certain books and following a man that teaches going to college is evil, single children need to stay home till married, women are not at all for any reason to work outside of the home and sets up a flimsey homeschooling program that only prepares one to work in his ministry. Big difference and there is no comparison. The first isn’t telling young people to be go on and get an education. I don’t get your point. It is ridiculous at best. The Duggars follow the later.

There is more. Often they talk about home births and see no risk and I don’t like the immunination shots(hepatitas A, rebella and chickenpox) with fetal material because I think it can be dangerous. Some avoid all immunizations, even shots for infant such as vitamin K and others and it can be troublesome.

 

[robwar]

There is more. Often they talk about home births and see no risk and I don’t like the immunination shots(hepatitas A, rebella and chickenpox) with fetal material because I think it can be dangerous. Some avoid all immunizations, even shots for infant such as vitamin K and others and it can be troublesome.

I agree, there is a lot of unhealthy stuff that they believe in and practice.

 

[88tind]

I gave up on God at 18, but at 28 God must have called me.

god didn’t call you… you’re just weak minded which is why you were pulled back into the brain washed state from which you were born. it’s difficult to break free from the brain washing that your parents inflicted upon you from birth…

 

[EmeraldOak]

What’s really sad is that he doesn’t take the 10 minutes to find out what Catholics actually believe about the Blessed Mother.

All that is happening in the world - all the evil - and this man spits venom at fellow Christians. God help us.

True indeed. This is a time when all Christian religions should be coming together. If he’s in the mood to condemn, ISIS is available for a facebook rant.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I have seen a few episodes of this reality show. I am not a big fan of reality shows in the first place. Wow, I cannot imagine even being pregnant that many times!!! They had to have lived frugally at one time. I guess they have been really blessed. I always wondered what the Dad did. They have done well and managed their money well with all those kids. So many parents today both have to work with just 2 or
3 kids. They seem like a close family - strong values and a strong faith. I think the parents have given them a good foundation and have been good parents.
That said, I wonder if all the kids will follow the same church of their psrents. I personally find the family on the boring side so I don’t tune in. I am sure they have had many interesting family discussions about the Catholic church. I would love to have been a little mouse in the corner and hear their thoughts.

 

[Catholic1954]

Do me a favor. Go on Youtube and type in 14 Kids and Pregnant again. Then watch a recent episode. Trust me… they get A LOT of money from the show. In 10 years they now can go around the world and have iphones etc. I do not believe they are as frugal as they make it seem. It is an image. The show is scripted. Sorry it is. They used to make their own clothes and as the specials and show went on they wear more name brand clothes

Do me a favor and actually watch the show. uch:

 

[robwar]

Do me a favor and actually watch the show. uch:

Please, i think this kind of remarks are uncalled for. You have to realize that any reality show is more on the contrived side than not. In any reality show, we do not know what goes on when the cameras are off and put away. Back to the topic of the thread, my guess and wager is that he was told to pull the comment down after and hour and it caused controversy for the Duggars who do want a clean non-controversial image. I never watched the show myself but, I have watched a couple clips which they have posted on their web site. The one clip was about a rare snow storm in Arkansas. The TLC camera crew spent more time interviewing strangers in some shopping mall asking them how they would feel being snowed in with 19 children. The problem with this is that the reality behind the reality show is that Michelle didn’t have to go out because she is a stay at home mom, her oldest son is married, the older girls help the mom care for the younger sibs in a buddy system and Michelle is home everyday with the kids. The scenario is contrived to “how does Michelle do it”. Now there is nothing wrong with stay at home moms homeschooling their children or having lots of children etc. But don’t use them as props to make yourself look good. Likewise, as the older kids are getting married etc, they seem be addicted to the attention that they have been raised in from the reality show. There are also questions about the use of corporal punishment because the Duggars follow not only Bill Gothard but the Pearls, a fundamentalist couple that preach corporal punishment. Michelle has been directly asked about corporal punishment and she went on a long verbal dissertation to wiggle out of the question. People that are familiar with both Gothard and the Pearls do have questions about what really goes on when the cameras are off.

 

[JWH123]

Hi geo17,
Hmmm. Let me ask you - - who do you think compiled the Bible? Who gave the Bible to the world? Yes, the Catholic Church. Who decided what books were in or out? Yes, the Catholic Church. (that is, until Luther came along and left out some books). So who are you to say the the Church “changed” things?!

Where in the Bible are the following:

-The Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary? (The Eastern Orthodox church teaches that Mary was born with original sin, and that all sin was removed from her when she submitted to God’s will to bear God in human form; she COULD have said no; would that mean we’d celebrate the Immaculate Conception of Elizabeth, Mother of God, instead? The truth is, there is some measure of validity to this, especially since Mary was a human being and as a human being, she was given free will by God, meaning she had every right to refuse to bear Jesus, or even to maintain her virginity!)

-Mary’s assumption (body and soul) into Heaven? (The Bible is absolutely silent on the end of Mary’s earthly life. And there are many people who firmly believe that something as remarkable as the assumption of Jesus’ mother would have been referenced multiple times in the Bible if it really happened. The ends of the earthly lives of many individuals of far less significance than Mary are mentioned in detail throughout the Scriptures.)

-Indulgences granted to those who recite specific prayers (created by the Catholic Church, and these prayers tend to be to certain saints who lived long after the composition of the Bible) a certain number of times, which can be used to reduce the time in purgatory by a specific number of years for themselves or for another soul of the prayer-sayer’s choosing? (The Bible in Maccabees talks about praying for the souls of the departed, but does not lay out specific prayer instructions like this)

-The Sacrament of the Mass itself, which was absolutely changed by Vatican II? (If you attended a Catholic Mass in the 1950’s and came back to the Church today, you would not even recognize what takes place every Sunday morning!)

All of these things, and many more, happened during the second millennium after Christ. By definition, this means that the Catholic Church which was founded early in the first millennium, changed its teachings. The point is not whether you agree with the new teachings, the point is that they unequivocally are changes from the teachings of the original Catholic Church!

 

[7_Sorrows]

Where in the Bible are the following:

-The Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary? (The Eastern Orthodox church teaches that Mary was born with original sin, and that all sin was removed from her when she submitted to God’s will to bear God in human form; she COULD have said no; would that mean we’d celebrate the Immaculate Conception of Elizabeth, Mother of God, instead? The truth is, there is some measure of validity to this, especially since Mary was a human being and as a human being, she was given free will by God, meaning she had every right to refuse to bear Jesus, or even to maintain her virginity!)

-Mary’s assumption (body and soul) into Heaven? (The Bible is absolutely silent on the end of Mary’s earthly life. And there are many people who firmly believe that something as remarkable as the assumption of Jesus’ mother would have been referenced multiple times in the Bible if it really happened. The ends of the earthly lives of many individuals of far less significance than Mary are mentioned in detail throughout the Scriptures.)

-Indulgences granted to those who recite specific prayers (created by the Catholic Church, and these prayers tend to be to certain saints who lived long after the composition of the Bible) a certain number of times, which can be used to reduce the time in purgatory by a specific number of years for themselves or for another soul of the prayer-sayer’s choosing? (The Bible in Maccabees talks about praying for the souls of the departed, but does not lay out specific prayer instructions like this)

-The Sacrament of the Mass itself, which was absolutely changed by Vatican II? (If you attended a Catholic Mass in the 1950’s and came back to the Church today, you would not even recognize what takes place every Sunday morning!)

All of these things, and many more, happened during the second millennium after Christ. By definition, this means that the Catholic Church which was founded early in the first millennium, changed its teachings. The point is not whether you agree with the new teachings, the point is that they unequivocally are changes from the teachings of the original Catholic Church!

Those are questions most Catholics already have the answer to.

 

[robwar]

Where in the Bible are the following:

-The Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary? (The Eastern Orthodox church teaches that Mary was born with original sin, and that all sin was removed from her when she submitted to God’s will to bear God in human form; she COULD have said no; would that mean we’d celebrate the Immaculate Conception of Elizabeth, Mother of God, instead? The truth is, there is some measure of validity to this, especially since Mary was a human being and as a human being, she was given free will by God, meaning she had every right to refuse to bear Jesus, or even to maintain her virginity!)

-Mary’s assumption (body and soul) into Heaven? (The Bible is absolutely silent on the end of Mary’s earthly life. And there are many people who firmly believe that something as remarkable as the assumption of Jesus’ mother would have been referenced multiple times in the Bible if it really happened. The ends of the earthly lives of many individuals of far less significance than Mary are mentioned in detail throughout the Scriptures.)

-Indulgences granted to those who recite specific prayers (created by the Catholic Church, and these prayers tend to be to certain saints who lived long after the composition of the Bible) a certain number of times, which can be used to reduce the time in purgatory by a specific number of years for themselves or for another soul of the prayer-sayer’s choosing? (The Bible in Maccabees talks about praying for the souls of the departed, but does not lay out specific prayer instructions like this)

-The Sacrament of the Mass itself, which was absolutely changed by Vatican II? (If you attended a Catholic Mass in the 1950’s and came back to the Church today, you would not even recognize what takes place every Sunday morning!)

All of these things, and many more, happened during the second millennium after Christ. By definition, this means that the Catholic Church which was founded early in the first millennium, changed its teachings. The point is not whether you agree with the new teachings, the point is that they unequivocally are changes from the teachings of the original Catholic Church!

please keep to the topic. All these things listed by you can be their own topic and thread. thanks!

 

[PattyPryor]

Do me a favor and actually watch the show. uch:

This is rude. Besides I watch every show since the beginning. Sorry they have changed. I also know people who are friends with them.

 

[gam197]

PattyPryor;12337124]This is rude. Besides I watch every show since the beginning. Sorry they have changed. I also know people who are friends with them.

I was taken back when I heard the older children have to make appointment to talk their parents and couldn’t understand that as they have a stay at home mother?

At least it is a show with a large family. I think of all the catholic families that we had in Maine and Canada with 17 plus children and never a dime for anyone as they worked their farms. The currect governor of Maine is one of 18 children.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I was taken back when I heard the older children have to make appointment to talk their parents and couldn’t understand that as they have a stay at home mother?

At least it is a show with a large family. I think of all the catholic families that we had in Maine and Canada with 17 plus children and never a dime for anyone as they worked their farms. The currect governor of Maine is one of 18 children.

Make an appointment?

 

[JWH123]

Those are questions most Catholics already have the answer to.

I was answering a question by someone who asked what the Catholic Church has changed. Yes, I know the answers to all of these things but they are changes.

 

[Midwest88]

alternet.org/belief/how-playing-role-christian-housewife-almost-killed-me

How Playing Good Christian Housewife Almost Killed Me
Our Christian sect encouraged a mindset in which dad was supreme patriarch. It led to extreme emotional abuse.

Whenever I talk about my escape from the Quiverfull movement, Christians immediately dismiss my experience by saying, “Your problem was not with Jesus or Christianity. Your problem was that you were following an extreme, legalistic cult. Let me tell you about my personal relationship with Jesus.” It can be extremely frustrating. I was in a close, personal relationship with Jesus for over 25 years. But rather than telling you about the beginning of my relationship with this man, I am going to spare you the long story and skip straight to the break up.

 

[Petaro]

Very Sad. I suppose she is now very happy having discarded her marriage, her God and taken the advice of the unbiased counselors to destroy the heritage of her life. It is so sad that she had to be shown an abuse wheel to realize what a terrible husband she had.