Anti-Catholic Friend wrote this - Help me

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ANTI-CATHOLIC AND FRIEND? someone asked. Yes, she is a believer and loves the Lord but like so many (I was one once) she has not had the Grace to see that all the things she has heard and believed were lies. You see, if you work very,very hard and know the Bible very, very well, you can make it say almost anything you want - if you have no authority. And that is what happens to Protestant believers - I was one of those. I was never anti-Catholics but I thought we had a lot of “stuff” and worshiped Mary and all of that - I was there. It is so good to be here and be Home at last. I pray for my friend who, although she is anti-Catholic, will one day know whole Truth. She will. Several of you have said things about Chick and I love it. I feel he is so nasty that even if you didn’t like the Catholic faith you would rally to help them. I always hated his stuff and would not touch it. She will come that, I pray. You allllll have such great (name removed by moderator)ut. Thanks for caring about this. The Envoy article hit her in a big way and now she is saying the Church is not an organzation but the body of believers. She is backing away from her first anger.
 
Terry Fenwick:
Great question and sad to say we used to teach the same Bible Study (Protestant) and were best friends - this has been so difficult for her. If I say to you that she likes those angry Chick tracks, will that help you understand this? She is truly anti-Catholic although she did not seem to be until my husband and I became Catholic. It is sad. God is doing a work in this but I may not live (here on earth) long enough to see her change. At least she is communicating. In the beginning she said she would never talk to me about the Catholic Church and we have gradually come back to the communicating table.

Thanks much!
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I haven’t finished reading the posts, but I just wanted to offer some consolation. I was married to a Catholic(still am married) and I was very anti-catholic. I mean the whole bit, I would hide anything of my husbands that could even be consider to make him look Catholic, the rosaries, sacramentals, even the crusifxes. I tried very hard to bring him away from the Church. It took over six yrs for me to even start to be openminded to the Church teachings, not that I had any plans to convert mind you, and then in Aug of '04 I was confirmed. We had our pastor over for supper, he isn’t the one who confirmed me, and he was so suprised that I was a convert. He said he never would have guessed. So the Holy Spirit was working on me, and if it can happen to me it can surely happen to your friend. Just give it time and pray. Whatever you do keep conversing when she wants to discuss things. I have a lot of trouble with my mom and that’s what I have to do. Whe she brings up a topic then I will discuss it with her otherwise I don’t bring it up, this gives her a chance to digest things.
 
Terry Fenwick:
A very angry friend send me something today and I can usually answer and defend what I believe but she had a name in Latin I do not know. You perhaps can help - anyone? She said this:
"The Preferred Deception of New Age Thought! - The Roman Catholic definition of a saint is not the Scriptural definition of a saint. A saint is NOT a lesser god that you pray to.
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This really gets me fed up 🙂​

Of course they aren’t - and we do not pray to lesser gods: we acknowledge, worship, and adore one God; and we honour His holy servants as His friends and children.

Some Catholics actually know what and why they believe, better than the critics of Catholicism. ##
The Pope’s Latin title, FILII VICARIVS DEI, literally means a substitute god, and the word Vatican in classical Latin means divination or witchcraft! Clearly, a false, occult god (NON-god!) is attracting the leaders of states and religions to itself."

What does Filii Vicarivs Dei translate as and is it indeed the name of the Pope. I have seen this answered somewhere - probably Keating? Can you help me? Thanks so much. I just call him Papa.
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Vicarius Filii Dei, which is presumably what is meant, means in Latin “Vicar of the Son of God” - it has never been, and is not now, a Papal title.​

Vates = prophet.

Mons Vaticanus = Hill of a/the prophet.

Your friend needs to take a course in Latin - and to do something restful. 🙂

There is a geographical feature in Scotland called “the Devil’s Punchbowl” - just as there are geographical features all over the world with striking names referring to the devil, or whatever: but no one in his right mind would think of basing an argument on them.

So why do so in the case of this Roman hill ?

Especially as there is not the slightest reason to suppose that the 666 - Vicarius Filii Dei supposedly has the same numerical value as 666 - in Revelation 13.18 has the least reference to the Pope.

The whole 666 argument as used by SDAs - the usual source of this myth about the papal crown & and its alleged inscription - is based on an inverted pyramid of unfounded assumptions and mistakes. The idea is older than the SDAs, but they are its great popularisers. ##
 
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Shari:
I haven’t finished reading the posts, but I just wanted to offer some consolation. I was married to a Catholic(still am married) and I was very anti-catholic. I mean the whole bit, I would hide anything of my husbands that could even be consider to make him look Catholic, the rosaries, sacramentals, even the crusifxes. I tried very hard to bring him away from the Church. It took over six yrs for me to even start to be openminded to the Church teachings, not that I had any plans to convert mind you, and then in Aug of '04 I was confirmed. We had our pastor over for supper, he isn’t the one who confirmed me, and he was so suprised that I was a convert. He said he never would have guessed. So the Holy Spirit was working on me, and if it can happen to me it can surely happen to your friend. Just give it time and pray. Whatever you do keep conversing when she wants to discuss things. I have a lot of trouble with my mom and that’s what I have to do. Whe she brings up a topic then I will discuss it with her otherwise I don’t bring it up, this gives her a chance to digest things.
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Thank you so much - this is the way we have done it over the last year or three now but when she comes up with something I feel it is fair game. Because my Latin is weak - except for Mass - I wanted to be careful. She is on a rampage right now but has slowed down. You must know, that just as you feared for your husband, she fears for me. She is frantic. I understand that and again, although I was never anti-Catholic, I knew they did a lot of dumb things - until I found out they were all true. When the first domino falls, they go click, click, click and you are Home. God is at work, there is no doubt about it. When she comes HOME she will be a Giant! Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut because you have to have been a Protestant to know how they think and their passion.

She is beginning to think eternal life and the saints and Saints. She hates to admit it, but you can’t throw that out. Also if she can’t ask another one with eternal life to pray for her because she has an Intercessor, she can’t ask me or others to pray for her and she is the first person to call out for prayer from a mere mortal. smile. We set our own traps and God comes to gently get us out when the time comes.
 
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RocketScientist:
First, let me salute you for being able and willing to keep the lines of communication open. I read a book, I think it was called The Rapture Trap (I can’t find it!) which explains how the rapture is an invention of the 19th (?) century and explains how those who believe in it have to twist in pretzels to get the Bible to say what they want it to say.

I haven’t gotten around to buying Will Catholics Be Left Behind?, but it must be good, it’s from Catholic Answers!

Anyway, a discussion of the rapture might be a good opening to get your friend to start questioning some of her biases and start looking at the Catholic Church with fresh eyes. Good luck!
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Rapture person she is - she teaches it better than anyone. She is also a good friend of Hal Lindsey. How is that? Reads Jack Chick tracks and calls the Eucharist the death cookie (forgive me Lord for even writing it!) and knows Hal personally. Looks impossible? Nothing is impossible with God. I love alllll of your responses. They are wonderfully encouraging. Maybe the will help others with these precious anti-Catholic friends who are so closed to the real Truth.
 
Well, angry because I abandoned her? I don’t know - fear for me? Probably a bit of fear. Ignorance of the Church. It was a shock to her and yet she knew I was studying Church History and I would tell her from time to time things I was discovering. I think she loves me so much and feels alone - and yet she is with all of my other precious friends in Christ who are just as stunned. We used to go to the Holy Land together, go on a summer vacation with our friends who were all Bible teachers. I was the only High Church person in the group and they never understood that. I mean Liturgical Church, of course, but not Catholic. They used to tease me about loving the Liturgy but it was in good fun. Sad? Millions of them like this - we need to love them and let them know what we have is wonderful.
 
Terry Fenwick:
Yes!!! Do you know she is a brilliant woman who knows the Word, uses still KJV (legalistically) and the thing that is amazing to me is that God has not shown her anything about the Truth of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. She is a great rapture person and is waiting daily for the return of Christ, an avid reader, and thinks I need deliverance from the spirit of Catholicism. I know it was a shock to her but she always trusted me in the past knowing I knew the Word well and so on and so on and so on. She needs an awakening. She does not yet know that the Church does not accept the rapture theory. I need to tell her that but it might be too much. Maybe soon.
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You sound like you have a wonderful heart and are an even better friend. This looks to me like the hand of God moving as he does…thru love.

God Bless. Enjoy the harvest.
 
Terry Fenwick:
God is at work, there is no doubt about it. When she comes HOME she will be a Giant! Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut because you have to have been a Protestant to know how they think and their passion.

. . . . We set our own traps and God comes to gently get us out when the time comes.
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Terry, you are SERIOUSLY cool! 👍 And a REAL friend! :yup:
 
Will she listen to tapes? If so, I’ve got a deal for you. If not, I’ve still got a deal for you. You can listen to the tapes and use the information when a topic comes up.

John Martignoni, a Catholoic apologist, has many free tapes or CD’s. Maybe you’ve heard him Mondays on EWTN’s Open Line.
All his tapes are free, they are all Scripture-based because he lives in Alabama and does apologetics in the Bible belt.
He has a tape on the rapture. It gives all of the passages the rapturists misuse, how they misuse them and the proper Catholic response, and he does it with humor and withut rancor.

Check out his site and all of his tapes at
www.biblechristiansociety.com

He also has free booklets you can download with the Scripture passages listed in them.

Good luck to you. Hang in. TRUTH is an invincible weapon. He died for us, but you know that.
 
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NotWorthy:
Why is there so much Anti-Catholocism? It’s simple. . . . For each denomination to be right in breaking away from the Catholic Church, one things HAS TO BE TRUE: The Catholic Church must be wrong. Every thing they teach and preach depends on this one fact being true!!!

So deep in your heart, if you wish something to be true (thereby validating your entire faith), you will believe nearly anything in order to confirm your faith.

Does this make sense?
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Make sense? Only at first blush. You somewhat overstate your case. I would guess that one of the top three doctrines that they teach and preach is the full deity of Jesus Christ and his virgin birth. That teaching certainly does not depend upon the Catholic Church being wrong. The same can be said regarding their teaching on the attributes of God, his acts of creation, the Trinity, the fall, &c.

And your reasoning in the second paragraph, above, is dangerous to say the least. It fits perfectly into a Protestant’s hand to be used against the Catholic who not only has a deep desire in his heart to believe the faith, but is commanded to believe all that Holy Church proposes for his belief. What is such a Catholic prepared to believe in order to confirm his faith?

Regards.
 
Sounds like a case for a couple hundred hours before the Blessed Sacrament. You can only do what you can do. You can plant and water, but only God will grow the seed . . .

I hear that people have actually been CONVERTED to Catholicism because of Jack Chick: they figure they have to look into the Church more thoroughly – out of a kind of prurience or curiosity sparked by the tracts – and then, WHAM! It hits 'em. Oh, m’gosh! This really IS THE Church!
 
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NotWorthy:
Why is there so much Anti-Catholocism? It’s simple. Everyone knows that Christ founded one Church. And thanks to the Reformation, every Protestant Church since then has broken off from that Church.

For each denomination to be right in breaking away from the Catholic Church, one things HAS TO BE TRUE: The Catholic Church must be wrong. Every thing they teach and preach depends on this one fact being true!!! So deep in your heart, if you wish something to be true (thereby validating your entire faith), you will believe nearly anything in order to confirm your faith.

Furthermore, if the Catholic Church is right, and your denomination was wrong to break away, then where does that place your entire religion??? In Heresy!!!

Please understand, this is not a judgement on our religious beliefs, I’m just trying to shed a little light on the reasons behind some of the unreasonable-ness (?).

Does this make sense?

Still NotWorthy
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what if they’re all right lutherans/methodist/baptist/catholic etc…on terms of salvation…but its the minute doctrinal differences that seperate us???..and i admit some are larger than others…but ultimately we believe that christ died for our sins…and that to receive salvation we must believe in christ… i mean…we all believe in christ don’t we???..

Ceasar
 
Online Etymology Dictionary:
Vatican
1555, from L. mons Vaticanus, Roman hill on which Papal palace stands. An Etruscan loan-word, not related to vates “sooth-sayer.”
etymonline.com/index.php?term=Vatican

From Catholic Encyclopedia
newadvent.org/cathen/15276b.htm
The territory on the right bank of the Tiber between Monte Mario and Gianicolo (Janiculum) was known to antiquity as the Ager Vaticanus, and, owing to its marshy character, the low-lying portion of this district enjoyed an ill repute. The origin of the name Vaticanus is uncertain; some claim that the name comes from a vanished Etruscan town called Vaticum. This district did not belong to ancient Rome, nor was it included within the city walls built by Emperor Aurelian.
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Sad To Say I Have Baptised Catholic Friends
Who Are Anti-catholic. What Could Have Happened To Them In There Life That They Hate So Much?
I Pray For Them Daily And Try To Get A Word In
About God Whenever I Can.
 
Terry Fenwick:
She does not yet know that the Church does not accept the rapture theory. I need to tell her that but it might be too much. Maybe soon.
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This book is useful for debunking the rapture:THE INCREDIBLE COVER-UP
Exposing the Origins of Rapture Theories
Dave MacPherson, 1975

The “secret rapture” doctrine has its origins in the 1830 “visions” of Margaret Macdonald of the Plymouth Brethren. (You can read Margaret Macdonald’s Original Pretribulation Vision on Dave’s website).

John Nelson Darby, a famous preacher of the Plymouth Brethren, popularized the “secret rapture” doctrine. C.I. Scofield bought it hook line and sinker, and he included this false doctrine in the footnotes to his famous Scofield Refernence Bible. The “bible churches” in America picked up the a “secret rapture” doctrine from this source, and the rest is history.

From the Catholic Answers tract The Rapture:… in the 1800s, some began to claim that the rapture would occur before the period of persecution. This position, now known as the “pre-tribulational” view, also was embraced by John Nelson Darby, an early leader of a Fundamentalist movement that became known as Dispensationalism. Darby’s pre-tribulational view of the rapture was then picked up by a man named C.I. Scofield, who taught the view in the footnotes of his Scofield Reference Bible, which was widely distributed in England and America. Many Protestants who read the Scofield Reference Bible uncritically accepted what its footnotes said and adopted the pre-tribulational view, even though no Christian had heard of it in the previous 1800 years of Church history.
 
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