Anti-Catholic: Harvest Bible Chapel

[SyroMalankara]

He then began to speak of the missionaries we have that go to Romania and have had observed that Romanian Orthodox are encouraged not to read their Bible’s.

This canard has been around for hundreds of years now. The Pastor is probably right that the Romanian Orthodox are encouraged not to read HIS Bible, since it’s lacking all the books, and probably has anti-Orthodox notes in the margins… The Romanian Church has it’s Bible available online for anyone interested, and for all to read:

“Biblia Sinodală” (Bible of the Holy Synod)
bibliaortodoxa.ro/

He gave some examples of superstitions such as a Priest coming to a crossroad and making a special prayer every time he reaches the road. I asked if he would send me some evidence; we’ll see what happens.

Perhaps there is a shrine at the corner or someone he knows died there? How is that a superstition?

 

[China123]

powerofk - well written

I think the problem is more complex than just a reason or two. I can say that, as a cradle Catholic, I have heard anti-Catholic sentiment throughout my whole life. It has definitaly become more hostile in the last decade or so. Most non-Catholics I meet personally have a lot of mis-information and just have bought the bill of goods so to speak from their pastors or stuff they have read. But we seem to have this problem is all areas of life in the US these days. People simply do not want to find out for themselves. They want to read it or hear it in a small sound bite and then they take it as truth.

One of my favorite stories is attending a Calvery Chapel as a teenager to hear the Christian music. During the sermon there was quite a lot of Catholic bashing. I went home and wrote this pastor and explained how uncomfortable I was to hear that and why especially he thought Catholics were not Christians. As a teenager I just could not wrap my head around that as I knew I was Christian. The pastors response was to make an appointment with him and he would show me in the bible where the Catholic Church was wrong. I showed the letter to my priest and youth minister ( I was involved with our chuch quite a bit then) and he suggested that since non-Catholics were adept at cherry picking verses to confuse people why doesn’t he (the priest) go with me and we can all sit down and have a nice discussion. I suggested that to this pastor and he said “If you have to have help being saved and coming to the truth then I would prefer NOT to discuss”.

I was put off by that and that probably added to the “did not want to discuss” religion.

 

[Telstar]

powerofk - well written

I think the problem is more complex than just a reason or two. I can say that, as a cradle Catholic, I have heard anti-Catholic sentiment throughout my whole life. It has definitaly become more hostile in the last decade or so. Most non-Catholics I meet personally have a lot of mis-information and just have bought the bill of goods so to speak from their pastors or stuff they have read. But we seem to have this problem is all areas of life in the US these days. People simply do not want to find out for themselves. They want to read it or hear it in a small sound bite and then they take it as truth.

One of my favorite stories is attending a Calvery Chapel as a teenager to hear the Christian music. During the sermon there was quite a lot of Catholic bashing. I went home and wrote this pastor and explained how uncomfortable I was to hear that and why especially he thought Catholics were not Christians. As a teenager I just could not wrap my head around that as I knew I was Christian. The pastors response was to make an appointment with him and he would show me in the bible where the Catholic Church was wrong. I showed the letter to my priest and youth minister ( I was involved with our chuch quite a bit then) and he suggested that since non-Catholics were adept at cherry picking verses to confuse people why doesn’t he (the priest) go with me and we can all sit down and have a nice discussion. I suggested that to this pastor and he said “If you have to have help being saved and coming to the truth then I would prefer NOT to discuss”.

I was put off by that and that probably added to the “did not want to discuss” religion.

:clapping: Excellent post!

That poor pastor was probably just shaking in his boots, afraid that he might be the one getting “saved”.

 

[lutheran_farmer]

When I was deep into RCIA, and getting ready for reconciliation and confirmation, I was grilled by a pastor from my old Lutheran church. I stood my ground, politely, and defended the Church. He actually said I was a good defender of Catholicism, but I think I just got lucky that he asked me things I knew!

It was difficult to do that and I see why people are worried about being called out. Pray for guidance, if you know it’s coming. Pray for guidance while you talking to someone, if you need to. Don’t be afraid to tell them that you will get back to them, if they present something that you are unsure of. I just got lucky that I had studied the very things that I was forced to defend.

Well, maybe it wasn’t exactly ‘luck’. Or me.

 

[JonNC]

Hmm, I just went through RCIA and I was never told not to read the bible. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Somewhere on this website is a link to “how to be a Catholic Apologist” and it starts out with telling you to read the New Testament, and then re-read it. I think this is it:

catholic.com/tracts/starting-out-as-an-apologist

So, we are told to read it. We also have somewhere to go to ask questions when it ins’t clear.

Indeed. Your testimony debunks the tired, false accusation by some nonCatholics that Catholics aren’t allowed or don’t read the Bible.
By the same token, I’ll bet that in your Lutheran catechetical days, you were not given a Bible and told to go home, read it, and make up your own mind what it means.

 

[JonNC]

If this is the response to Lutheranism and CoE going liberal, why did they reject all the historic practices and doctrines of both?

Why did they not simply join a conservative Lutheran synod, such as mine, or an Anglo-Catholic or continuing Anglican Church?

Jon

 

[dronald]

Indeed. Your testimony debunks the tired, false accusation by some nonCatholics that Catholics aren’t allowed or don’t read the Bible.
By the same token, I’ll bet that in your Lutheran catechetical days, you were not given a Bible and told to go home, read it, and make up your own mind what it means.

The only way I can be certain is to go to Romania myself and see what things are like there. Apparently some missionaries have had first hand experience.

 

[lutheran_farmer]

Indeed. Your testimony debunks the tired, false accusation by some nonCatholics that Catholics aren’t allowed or don’t read the Bible.
By the same token, I’ll bet that in your Lutheran catechetical days, you were not given a Bible and told to go home, read it, and make up your own mind what it means.

No, actually. We had a copy of Luther’s Small Catechism (I returned when we left the church). However, we were told we could read the Book of Concord, since we had a copy. That was a big mistake.

 

[lutheran_farmer]

Oh, we returned the Book of Concord to it’s original owner as well.

 

[manualman]

The only way I can be certain is to go to Romania myself and see what things are like there. Apparently some missionaries have had first hand experience.

It’s not a matter of questioning the missionaries honesty, it’s a matter of questioning their comprehension. I had college roomates who were evangelicals that did summer mission work in Siberia (just after the end of communism). They came back with numerous stories containing humorous misunderstandings.

For example, they were amazed and impressed at the honor Russians gave the gospel in that every time someone went to read it out loud to the congregation in public everybody stood up. They took that as a spontaneous gesture of respect. I had to suppress a chuckle before explaining that catholics and orthodox peoples understand the public reading of the gospel to be liturgical and that it’s our rubric to stand to hear the gospel proclaimed. Blank looks. The idea of liturgical rubrics had never even occurred to my friends.

I suspect an earlier poster probably nailed the issue. They’ve been instructed not to read bibles translated by people NOT working under supervision of the Romanian Orthodox hierarchy as such people (and sometimes the translations themselves , i.e. JWs) are biased to that sect’s peculiar theology or teachings). If the missionaries themselves don’t speak the language, it’s pretty easy to misunderstand that as the people not wanting to read the bible at all. EO liturgy is much like catholic, so they hear plenty of OT, psalms, NT and gospels every time they participate in divine liturgy. It’s pretty crazy to accuse them of refusing to read or hear Scripture.

 

[Kay_Cee]

I suggested that to this pastor and he said “If you have to have help being saved and coming to the truth then I would prefer NOT to discuss”.

Good grief, wasn’t that pastor already suggesting that he himself was going to help you be saved and come to the truth?

 

[SyroMalankara]

Good grief, wasn’t that pastor already suggesting that he himself was going to help you be saved and come to the truth?

Surprised he bothered to “help” - isn’t all you need a 66book Bible and to pray for the correct interpretation?

 

[JonNC]

No, actually. We had a copy of Luther’s Small Catechism (I returned when we left the church). However, we were told we could read the Book of Concord, since we had a copy. That was a big mistake.

Sad, then, that that particular parish failed in its responsibility to teach. I hope the Catholic parish did a better job

Jon

 

[lutheran_farmer]

Thanks, JonNC.

I tried to change my user name to “Catholic Farmer” to make it less confusing, but I would have had to make a new account and that felt, somehow, dishonest. I don’t know, maybe I should do it anyway. I hope I didn’t cause any confusion. When I started my account, I was feeling pretty defensive about being Lutheran in a sea of Catholics but I was confused and had questions. Our son had just started kindergarten at a Catholic school, and, well, you see what happened!

I’m glad we had the Book of Concord. It was interesting, although it brought up many issues that made us take a step backwards from Lutheranism., I’m glad I read it for myself and asked the hard questions. I think it’s good for Lutherans to know their origins.

I would be suspicious of any religion that did not want you to read the bible or their catechism.

We do the readings every night. My Godmother (she’s technically a sponsor, but she prefers Godmother) gave me a subscription to the Magnificat. That is the neatest way to do the daily readings. And you can follow along at mass, if you want. If I could organize myself better, I would read in the morning instead of at night, so if I am baffled, I could go to mass that morning to find out more.

 

[manualman]

LF, You could always explain it in a signature at the bottom. The one liner opportunities are enormous! How about:

“Turns out I was better at farming that Lutheranism…”

 

[lutheran_farmer]

LOL!

Since the first Sunday I began attending mass was on Reformation Sunday (we were on our way to the Lutheran church. I was even wearing red) maybe I’m a reformed reformer?

 

[sallybutler]

Indeed. Your testimony debunks the tired, false accusation by some nonCatholics that Catholics aren’t allowed or don’t read the Bible.
By the same token, I’ll bet that in your Lutheran catechetical days, you were not given a Bible and told to go home, read it, and make up your own mind what it means.

I have my mom’s bible that she received when she received confirmation in 1945. The preface is from Pope Pius XXIII’s encyclical of 1943. Guess what! It says to read it copiously and meditate it constantly.

 

[manualman]

LOL!

Since the first Sunday I began attending mass was on Reformation Sunday (we were on our way to the Lutheran church. I was even wearing red) maybe I’m a reformed reformer?

Any of course you probably know Chesterton on reformers:
(from leaky memory)
“Reformers are usually right about what is wrong, but almost always wrong about what is right.”

 

[Modern_Revert]

People often ask for prayers when they are at a spiritual crossroad.
Why is it superstition to pray at an actual crossroad?
I agree the location may be associated with a shrine or a spiritual event.
Why are missionaries going to an already (Orthodox) Christian country anyway?

 

[dronald]

Why are missionaries going to an already (Orthodox) Christian country anyway?

To feed the poor.