Anti-Catholic rant online. Need some advice concerning greek translations

[Nigel7]

Here is what this person posted on a Christian forum where there is much Catholic bashing going on.

How would you respond to the following post?

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

The Church
Ekklēsia is the Greek word used in the New Testament over 116 times, translated in our English Bibles as ‘Church’. The word has NOTHING to do with stone buildings or sacred places of worship. It is a compound word meaning: ‘Ek’: Out from….’Ekklēsia’ the called out. Thus the ‘Called out’.

The Greek word most closely related to ‘Church’ is kuriakos, used in 1Cor11:20 & Rev1:10, translated: ‘the Lord’s’ as referring to the Lord’s Supper and the Lord’s Day. Meaning in the Greek: belonging to the Lord, related to the Lord. This word became associated with places of ‘Christian’ worship around 300AD under Roman Emperor Constantine. Up to that time the true followers of Jesus Christ were meeting in private homes, often in secret at night. WHY? Because in the Roman Empire there could be no private religion! It was against the law and considered conspiratorial to hold secret or private meetings in homes. This is why the Pagans often brought moral charges against the Christians accusing them of incest, cannibalism and unnatural practices.
(meetings in homes: Rom16:5, 1Cor16:19, Col4:15, Phil1:2, Acts2:46)

Christ Intended Church Matt16:13-19
When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?” So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Thus WHAT is the Church? Its Certainly NOT a building considered ‘Sacred’ where the Lord dwells. His Spirit does not reside in things made of stone and wood. When He told His Disciples that if ‘Anyone love Me, he will Keep My Word and My Father will love him and WE will come to him and make Our home with him’ Jn14:23, He was speaking of this ‘Ekklēsia’ of the ‘Called out ones’. These would be His assembly called out of Darkness and Bondage into Light and Freedom from sin! (Acts26:18) The Saints are NOT called to buildings set apart as sacred run by a religious establishment of clergy with some kind of special privileges to Lord over people.
WHO is Greatest in the Kingdom of our Lord?

And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your servant. Matt20:27

But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. Matt23:11
Even the Ransom (redemption of Christ) is associated with this kind of Servitude:
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”Matt20:28
Jesus as the ‘ROCK’ 1Cor10:4 (Petra, up on which the Ekklēsia is to be Established) Served on the ‘Called out ones’ behalf in order to Redeem them from darkness to light from the power of Satan to God. That’s why His ‘Church’ is the ‘Chosen generation, the Royal priesthood, a holy nation of His own special people that may proclaim praises to Him who called them out of darkness into His marvelous Light!’ 1Pet2:9. The Ekklēsia is NOT the filthy ragged, desperately wicked, wretched, born depraved, chiefs of sinners sitting under the bondage of a religious system that rules over their minds and keeps them in ignorance. (under a millennial of bondage dating back to ancient Rome)
Peter’s (petros, small rock) confession stands as the testimony of the Ekklesia’s foundation on which the Saints are to build; 1Cor3:9-11 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ! Understanding that it’s GOD who gives the increase, 1Cor3:7. This is why His Saints stand out as ‘Special People’ (unique 1Pet2:9) His Bride who has made themselves ready for His coming, Rev19:7, going forth into all the earth to proclaim the riches of His Glory, (Eph1:18, 3:16, Rom9:23) endued with the Power from on High! Acts1:8. Professing Christians in the Church System do not have a clue what it means to be among the ‘called out’ ones. They have yet to answer the call to ‘Come Out from among them and be separate’ 2Cor6:16-18. Separate from what, They ask, we are the Church!

continued below…

 

[Nigel7]

The Satanic distortion of ‘Church’ began in forth Century Rome under Emperor Constantine who granted religious tolerance in the land that brought an end to the bitter persecutions against Christians. This eventually led to the uniting of church and state, bringing the ‘Christians’ into the great cathedrals of Rome. (considered sacred by the pagans) From that time forward an ‘Official’ religious system existed under the guise of Christianity blending together the idols, pagan beliefs and rituals of Roman culture and remains so to this day. To the officials of Rome you were either a ‘Catholic Christian’ or a ‘heretic’….branded foolish madmen, who should suffer chastisement and divine condemnation.

Essentially this turned the tables against the real Saints of God labeling them dangerous dissenters and who would not bow to the authority of Rome. The Ecclesiastical System had full authority to persecute and legally murder their religious opponents who opposed them. Sparing you the long and bloody history of religious tyranny that brought us the horror of Crusades, Inquisitions, torture and massive persecutions throughout history to present day, suffice to say the ‘CHURCH’ as we know it in our current society has NOTHING to do with CHRIST! Certainly much of the bitter persecution has ceased in our ‘relativity’ free country and we are currently permitted to practice the religion of our choice, it doesn’t negate the FACT that the existing Religious Establishment of professing Christianity in the free world is still Pagan based to its core.

The ‘Churches’ as they exist in our towns, villages and cities, in which so-called Christians claim to worship the One True God are simply an off-shoot of what happened in ancient Rome when the Pure Doctrine of Jesus Christ was nullified by the teachings of men. This is why the ‘Church’ has absolutely no similarity to the ‘Ekklēsia’ of the Bible and also has no desire whatsoever to resemble it. They have their SYSTEM in place that serves the purpose of gathering humanity under a unified pattern of religion where anything goes and people can choose the ‘form’ that suits them best.

The establishment can still maintain a fabricated authority over attendees insisting they must submit to church leadership and remain in fellowship lest they abandon the faith. This enforces the fantasy in the minds of church goers that those who flee the System are angry runagates and devils better off gone rather than stirring up trouble in their midst. In olden times the ‘Church’ exercised domination over the people by the pretense of piety, the place of worship (they controlled) was consecrated of the Lord and dare not be blasphemed or defied. They may not be hunting down dissidents or burning anyone at the stake in our time, but TRY going among them to challenge their false doctrines and expose the sin! You will find out very quickly that non-compliance will NOT be tolerated.

A denominational church will use its entire governing body to see that you’re silenced and cast out of doors if necessary. More independent organizations will muster the governing board against you and see that you’re brought to shame in the eyes of the people. How different is that from excommunication or being branded a heretic by the religious establishment? The illegitimate ‘Church’ System STILL holds great sway over the gullible (professed) Christian public who fear being numbered among the rebellious. God’s greatest Prophets (including John the Baptist) always stood aloof of the religious system and were greatly out-numbered by the dominant forces. Elijah had to stand alone against 450 false prophets of Baal who had already gone out and slain hundreds of the Lord’s faithful. (1Kings19:12-21)

It’s really no surprise that those of us who Preach the Lord’s true Doctrine cannot buy or sell inside the religious system. (Rev13:17) The use of these words; ‘Buy & Sell’ in Revelation 13 are metaphorical. To Buy means the ability to Participate in a market place….To Sell translates as ability to Barter in a place. Are God’s true Messengers of Repentance and Faith Proven by deeds permitted to ‘Participate’ in the designated places of worship? Can they ‘Barter’ (the act or practice of carrying on a trade) among the ‘church’ people? BY NO MEANS……because they have NOT taken on the Mark (which is the lust of the eye, flesh & pride of life!) but have CAST it away in the Crucifixion of the passions and desires of the flesh. (Rom6:4-6,Gal5:24)

That’s what has separated the ‘Ekklesia’ from the church since the beginning. When Saul (later Paul) made havoc of the church entering into every house dragging off men and women committing them to prison (Acts8:3) Obviously he was finding this ‘Ekklesia’ in the houses. He did not have to seek them out in the local synagogues or other official places of worship approved by the religious system. And the SAME holds true today….you will NOT find the ‘Called out ones’ partaking at the table of demons in a place of idolatry. (1Cor10:21, 2Cor6:14-16)

Continued below…

 

[Nigel7]

We see this in Christ rolling back the vale of eternity in Matt7:21-23, when He pronounces those awful words to the people who thought they were serving Him in a false System, “I Never Knew you, Depart from Me you workers of iniquity’! They participated in the rituals and traditions of the ‘church’, but never came out of their sins.
If we look back over the centuries of religious bondage since the days of ancient Rome, we find a ruling elite arrogantly reigning over the mind’s of men by the use of superstition and the fear of a vengeful God. In darker times the mere suggestion that you were involved in anything the church deemed blasphemy it meant banishment from common society. (and often times death by horrible means) The average people could not simply ignore the ecclesiastical influence of the establishment because they had power to brandish the full power of the State against anyone who opposed them. So unless you were willing to contest a standing army that thoroughly enjoyed bloody slaughter, you kowtowed to the System in spite of your convictions.
Of course things have changed somewhat since the advent of Liberty in the world, but billions still live under authoritarian style leadership. The major difference today is that the ‘Christian’ Church is no longer a threat to the darkened authorities. Therefore if it, as an organization, is willing to exist within the parameters of state control it can enjoy full acceptance. (even in places like China) However private gatherings or (in house) churches are still considered a danger by most regimes because they operate apart from the supervision of prying eyes. This includes America, where many of the brain dead mind controlled, still believe their leaders respect the Bill of Rights. The general public, among who most professing Christians reside are already good minions of the State and subordinate to some form of authorized religious authority. The religious systems of history have provided man with a sanctuary for his ‘sickness’ of mind called the ‘church’. They have gone to extreme lengths to preserve this safe harbor for carnality, including the use of torture, coercion and deceptions.
Even when the vast monopoly of the Catholic System was challenged during what historians call the Reformation, the duplicity continued. When the Bible was finally authorized to be translated into English by King James VI in 1604, the ‘esteemed’ translators were instructed to rigorously maintain the Episcopal structure of the Church of England and its belief in an ‘ordained’ clergy. So the Word ‘Ekklesia’ in the Greek text was ordered to be translated ‘Church’! (as it also appeared in the Geneva Bible the Anglo-Catholic Bishop’s Bible) Thus it has been to this day. The ‘Church’ is still considered a sacred gathering place for ‘Christians’ and the clergy keeps the people in a state of ignorance and bliss. However GOD did not intend that His Ekklesia become an institutionalized religion.
We have already established that the ‘Church’ as it exists in America today is NOT the ‘Called out’ ones of Christ. Further evidence of this is seen in their eagerness to obey the rules of State and operate within the constraints of a charitable origination. Since the founding of America the ‘Churches’ have been exempt (for the most part) from paying any taxes. (except on payroll earnings stating in the late 1930’s) However as the Gospel became more and more secular in nature the government recognized it’s opportunity to weasel into ‘religious’ affairs by ‘granting’ them a special status under law to maintain their exemption. However nothing comes from government without strings attached and the American Church System was a prime candidate to ‘sign on’ to something they ‘thought’ was to their advantage. And in a bizarre sort of way the 501 (c) 3 charitable corporate tax exempt statuses (introduced in 1954) corresponds seamlessly into their counterfeit gospel message that follows the Great Harlot of Babylon.

The religious systems of history have provided man with a sanctuary for his ‘sickness’ of mind called the ‘church’. They have gone to extreme lengths to preserve this safe harbor for carnality, including the use of torture, coercion and deceptions. Even when the vast monopoly of the Catholic System was challenged during what historians call the Reformation, the duplicity continued. When the Bible was finally authorized to be translated into English by King James VI in 1604, the ‘esteemed’ translators were instructed to rigorously maintain the Episcopal structure of the Church of England and its belief in an ‘ordained’ clergy. So the Word ‘Ekklēsia’ in the Greek text was ordered to be translated ‘Church’! (as it also appeared in the Geneva Bible the Anglo-Catholic Bishop’s Bible)
Thus it has been to this day. The ‘Church’ is still considered a sacred gathering place for ‘Christians’ and the clergy keeps the people in a state of ignorance and bliss. However GOD did not intend that His Ekklēsia to become an institutionalized religion.

 

[MarcoPolo]

That is a very long article I don’t have time right now to review, but that initial definition doesn’t even seem to jibe with other Protestant exegetes on the term ekklesia, for instance, see this article from Hallmark Baptist.

Here’s another article I turned up on a quick search breaking down the term:
catholicsoncall.org/ekklesia-part-ii-continued

 

[mab23]

Ekklesia
a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating the assembly of the Israelites any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously in a Christian sense an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order’s sake those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven

Thayers Greek Lexicon
biblestudytools.com/search/?q=ekklesia&rc=LEX&rc2=LEX+GRK&ps=10&s=References

may you provide the link to where you found this article

 

[mab23]

in this silly article they say the Church (religious system was started in the 4th Century)

well lets check what the early church fathers had to say because centuries before we have writings about the church not just any church THE CATHOLIC church

staycatholic.com/ecf_the_church.htm

my personal Favorite

Ignatius of Antioch

Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole **Eucharist **you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

 

[Nigel7]

may you provide the link to where you found this article

**In this thread at this “Christian Chat” forum:

christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/57942-church-ekklae-sia.html**

Lots of Catholic bashing there. We could use some good knowledgeable Catholic Apologists over there.

 

[mab23]

I skimmed this whole article its just anti Catholic rhetoric - and a silly one at that I like the part where he talks about the KJ bible when we had the bible 1200 years before that infact they accept the Catholic tradition of the bible which we decided what books were inspired in 393 at the Council of Hippo under Pope Demasus

 

[Nigel7]

in this silly article they say the Church (religious system was started in the 4th Century)

I noticed that too. Ignorance abounds on that forum. They take every baseless Catholic-bashing protestant article as gospel truth.

btw, thanks for the Antioch quote. I’ve read many quotes from Church fathers from well before the 4th century. Think I’ll find some more and post them in that thread for our protestant brothers and sisters.

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut so far folks. It’s a start.

 

[po18guy]

The proper response, and one that I have used is to shake the dust from your sandals and forget about those sites. They are a snare and a pit to fall into. Ask them to come here.

 

[lerapt78]

Subscribing to get back to this. . . .

 

[Dave_B]

I noticed that too. Ignorance abounds on that forum. They take every baseless Catholic-bashing protestant article as gospel truth…

I find its very diffcult to get through to hard core anti-catholics. Their views are so entrenched.

I am not a Catholic myself, but sometimes quote from the link below of scriptures which they cannot explain without having a Church, as they reject many core teachings of Jesus and the apostles in scripture.

scripturecatholic.com/my_top_ten.html

 

[EricFilmer]

Here is what this person posted on a Christian forum where there is much Catholic bashing going on.

How would you respond to the following post?

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

(From the article you posted)…

The Church
Ekklēsia is the Greek word used in the New Testament over 116 times, translated in our English Bibles as ‘Church’. The word has NOTHING to do with stone buildings or sacred places of worship. It is a compound word meaning: ‘Ek’: Out from….’Ekklēsia’ the called out. Thus the ‘Called out’.

Thus it has been to this day. The ‘Church’ is still considered a sacred gathering place for ‘Christians’ and the clergy keeps the people in a state of ignorance and bliss. However GOD did not intend that His Ekklēsia to become an institutionalized religion.

Here you go Nigel7:

“The biblical descriptions of the Church as the Body of Christ and the Temple of the Holy Spirit indicate that she truly must be recognized as much more than one institution among many, or a social service agency, or as an ethnic or fraternal organization. Certainly the Church does have her institutional aspects, and she is always subject to the sins and limitations of her human members. Yet, Orthodoxy believes that in addition to her obvious human side, the Church also has a Divine dimension. The Greek word for Church, ecclesia, implies a community called and gathered by God for a special purpose. This means that the Church can be described as the unique meeting place between God and His people.”

This quote is from the definition of “church” by the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America (emphasis added). For a traditional Greek Orthodox description of church buildings, please see this article: House of God. For a Greek Orthodox description of communal worship, please see this article: Worship. As you can see, aside from some differences in the nuances of architecture, liturgical art and liturgical expression, the definition of “church” among Orthodox Christians mirrors the Catholic definition.

In light of all this, unless the people you are debating with are presumptuous enough to think that they understand the Greek language
better than the Greek Orthodox Church then this should settle the matter. But then again, the author of the article you quoted seems to think he is able to translate New Testament manuscripts better than the King James Bible, so acting presumptuously may not be something he’s concerned about.

 

[Ismael]

The Church
Ekklēsia is the Greek word used in the New Testament over 116 times, translated in our English Bibles as ‘Church’. The word has NOTHING to do with stone buildings or sacred places of worship. It is a compound word meaning: ‘Ek’: Out from….’Ekklēsia’ the called out. Thus the ‘Called out’.

…
Up to that time the true followers of Jesus Christ were meeting in private homes, often in secret at night. WHY? Because in the Roman Empire there could be no private religion! It was against the law and considered conspiratorial to hold secret or private meetings in homes. This is why the Pagans often brought moral charges against the Christians accusing them of incest, cannibalism and unnatural practices.
(meetings in homes: Rom16:5, 1Cor16:19, Col4:15, Phil1:2, Acts2:46)

Ekklesia, THE Church, means literally ‘assembly’ ‘meeting of people’ ‘community’.

a ‘church’ as building is kyriakon, which means ‘the Lord’s house’.

Up to that time the true followers of Jesus Christ were meeting in private homes, often in secret at night. WHY? Because in the Roman Empire there could be no private religion! It was against the law and considered conspiratorial to hold secret or private meetings in homes.

I think this ignores history. Christians had no temples or public buildings at their disposals. Catholics where catholicism was prohibited (e.g. northen Europe, like Holland until 1850) Catholics met secretly to celebrate mass at home.

The church bullding as such is just a building where the faithful can pray together freely.

PROTESTANTS also have ‘churches’ or ’ meeting halls’. In countries where Christianity is not oppressed all denominations have some form of public meeting place.

---

ALSO Christinity is NOT a ’ private religion’ not to be shared. Jesus himself call us to pray together and Early Christians, indeed, did not only pray alone at home but also met together.

So such arguments are invalid.

Because in the Roman Empire there could be no private religion! It was against the law and considered conspiratorial to hold secret or private meetings in homes. This is why the Pagans often brought moral charges against the Christians accusing them of incest, cannibalism and unnatural practices.
(meetings in homes: Rom16:5, 1Cor16:19, Col4:15, Phil1:2, Acts2:46)

Actually such accusations were made well before Costantine, so this argument is invalid.

Just like this rant writer, Pagans dod not understand the Church on various positions and attacked straw men.

---

“Thus WHAT is the Church? Its Certainly NOT a building considered ‘Sacred’ where the Lord dwells. His Spirit does not reside in things made of stone and wood. When He told His Disciples that if ‘Anyone love Me, he will Keep My Word and My Father will love him and WE will come to him and make Our home with him’ Jn14:23, He was speaking of this ‘Ekklēsia’ of the ‘Called out ones’. These would be His assembly called out of Darkness and Bondage into Light and Freedom from sin! (Acts26:18) The Saints are NOT called to buildings set apart as sacred run by a religious establishment of clergy with some kind of special privileges to Lord over people.
WHO is Greatest in the Kingdom of our Lord?”

here again there is confusion in the different meanings of the word ‘church’.

Catholics do not claim that Peter is the Rock at the base of some physical building… but is the Rock as foundation of the Church as both as a physical (in the sense that there are physical people in it) and spiritual entity.

The Church would exist even if all church buildings would be razed to the ground.

---

Jesus as the ‘ROCK’ 1Cor10:4 (Petra, up on which the Ekklēsia is to be Established) Served on the ‘Called out ones’ behalf in order to Redeem them from darkness to light from the power of Satan to God. That’s why His ‘Church’ is the ‘Chosen generation,

…the Royal priesthood, a holy nation of His own special people that may proclaim praises to Him who called them out of darkness into His marvelous Light!’ 1Pet2:9…

Peter’s (petros, small rock)…

… This is why His Saints stand out as ‘Special People’ (unique 1Pet2:9) His Bride who has made themselves ready for His coming, Rev19:7, going forth into all the earth to proclaim the riches of His Glory, (Eph1:18, 3:16, Rom9:23) endued with the Power from on High! Acts1:8. Professing Christians in the Church System do not have a clue what it means to be among the ‘called out’ ones. They have yet to answer the call to ‘Come Out from among them and be separate’ 2Cor6:16-18. Separate from what, They ask, we are the Church!

Two points:

1- the Catholic Church does NOT deny the ‘universal priesthood’ to which all, man and women are called to.

It also recognizes the ordained priesthood.

2- Peter is clearly the rock in the passage where Jesus says ‘you are Peter and on this rock…’. (‘petros’ and ‘petra’ were synonims in the I century AD, they had no different meaning).
Claiming that Peter is not the Rock makes the words of Jesus have no sense, sincxe Jesus words are akin to old testaments blessings, here Jesus blesses Peter three times.

I think Catholic Answers has already a lot of articles on the subject.

Jimmy Akin also gives a very clear explaination:
jimmyakin.com/2012/10/is-st-peter-the-rock-on-which-jesus-built-his-church.html

On the ‘priesthood’ Catholic answers also has lots of resources.
Again Jimmy Akin give also clear explainations:

jimmyakin.com/2012/06/are-all-believers-priests.html
jimmyakin.com/the-sacraments

Also you might want to check what the Cathechism od the Catholic Church says.

---

 

[Ismael]

The Satanic distortion of ‘Church’ began in forth Century Rome under Emperor Constantine who granted religious tolerance in the land that brought an end to the bitter persecutions against Christians. This eventually led to the uniting of church and state, bringing the ‘Christians’ into the great cathedrals of Rome. (considered sacred by the pagans) From that time forward an ‘Official’ religious system existed under the guise of Christianity blending together the idols, pagan beliefs and rituals of Roman culture and remains so to this day. To the officials of Rome you were either a ‘Catholic Christian’ or a ‘heretic’….branded foolish madmen, who should suffer chastisement and divine condemnation.

This is just fantasy, not history.

Heresy was already condemned well before Nicea or Costantine, just like in Irenaeus ‘Against heresies’ and the works of the early Church Fathers.

The idea that ‘heretics were persecuted’ is also false as heretics sect continued to exist even after a council deemed them heretical but slowly disbanded as most returned to orthodoxy.

To the officials of Rome you were either a ‘Catholic Christian’ or a ‘heretic’

this is false, since councils decided what orthodoxy was amd the council was made of people, mostly bishops, from all over the Christian world.

Essentially this turned the tables against the real Saints of God labeling them dangerous dissenters and who would not bow to the authority of Rome. The Ecclesiastical System had full authority to persecute and legally murder their religious opponents who opposed them. … etc

this is just rambling. It lacks truth in the facts of history.

I think these ramblings will be refuted even by most non-catholics Christians, since they have no foundation in truth.

---

The idea that:

"However GOD did not intend that His Ekklēsia to become an institutionalized religion. "

is basically provern WRONG by the New Testament itself, since by the 50’s of the I centiry (when Paul writes) we already had bishops (episkopos) at the helm of a local Churrh and presbyters (priests) that celebrated the Lord’s Supper.

Although the Early Church was ‘underground’ it was already well organized. St. paul indeed writes to admonish or comfort the local Churches, indicating that he had, to some degree authority on them.

ALSO in Acts 15 we find the FRIST “COUNCIL”, where some matters of faith are settled…

But I suppose one could ramble the the apostles themselves oppressed poor ‘real christians’… or why not go a step firther and claim the Jesus oppressed “real christans” by talking about Hell?

I have a STRONG doubt about ‘christians’ who call everybody who does not share his views a ‘satanist’.

 

[ColdComfort]

There’s a lot of Catholic-haters out there. Secularists and Protestant. I’m sure like me, most of us here have heard a lot of it since His Holiness’ announcement. Ask yourself : Do people hate the Anglicans, or the United Church of Canada? There are many good Christians in these churches; I refer to the leadership]. Why would this be?

 

[Nigel7]

Thank you everyone for your feedback. Very helpful and enlightening.

And again. Many protestants are simply ignorant concerning Catholicism. As Catholics then we can help them better understand the Truth of Catholicism, and very possibly spark something in them which will lead them to Christ’s own Church and her wonderful sacraments.

Anyone who wishes to defend our Catholic faith in the face of some staunch protestant opposition, here is a good place to do it. > > christianchat.com/

 

[october_baby]

Thank you everyone for your feedback. Very helpful and enlightening.

And again. Many protestants are simply ignorant concerning Catholicism. As Catholics then we can help them better understand the Truth of Catholicism, and very possibly spark something in them which will lead them to Christ’s own Church and her wonderful sacraments.

Anyone who wishes to defend our Catholic faith in the face of some staunch protestant opposition, here is a good place to do it. > > christianchat.com/

I would recommend that you NOT try to debate these people, they are more concerned
with attacking what they see as flaws with the catholic church then in engaging in evenhanded debate.

 

[pablope]

Thank you everyone for your feedback. Very helpful and enlightening.

And again. Many protestants are simply ignorant concerning Catholicism. As Catholics then we can help them better understand the Truth of Catholicism, and very possibly spark something in them which will lead them to Christ’s own Church and her wonderful sacraments.

Anyone who wishes to defend our Catholic faith in the face of some staunch protestant opposition, here is a good place to do it. > > christianchat.com/

A tactic I have used with people like this is to ask them to prove what they believe is true…and to provide sources.

In one such story our there, there is a claim of a massacre by jesuits…when I asked when the Jesuits were established…the event they claim as true happened about 7 or so years before the founding of the Jesuits…they shied from responding…and I kept pounding on them to admit they were wrong…till I got booted out.

 

[mackbrislawn]

Up to that time the true followers of Jesus Christ were meeting in private homes, often in secret at night. WHY? Because in the Roman Empire there could be no private religion! It was against the law and considered conspiratorial to hold secret or private meetings in homes. This is why the Pagans often brought moral charges against the Christians accusing them of incest, cannibalism and unnatural practices.

The Great Deceiver knows to always mix some truth in with his lies. The above is an example. It was truly against the law in some parts of the Roman empire to meet together. And this caused secular problems as well as religious ones because it meant that fire brigades could not be formed since that involved meeting together! Hence fires could rage and spread with no organized effort to put them out.

At any rate, I don’t know how the above, though true, fits into the long rant against Catholicism.

Furthermore, western Europe inherited its belief in God and the bible from the great Harlot, the Roman Church. I find it odd that they bash the Catholic Church as false, and then turn around and try to construct a true religion out of the Holy Book of a false religion!

But I suppose we shouldn’t expect any logic out of them to begin with.