Anti-Catholic Schoolwork question

[Dwyer]

lics,

Hello, I need some advice on what to do about some public school work.
I have to read a book over the summer that is biased towards Catholics in the Americas, and I see that Catholic Answers has a good rebuttal. However, we must hand a part of this assignment, and only use the book for help answering some questions.

Is it considered academic dishonesty to read the Catholic response, if it may “influence” \ my answer?

I think you better just do as teacher says and **“ONLY” ** use the work of Anti-Catholic propaganda the teacher gave you to read.

At least you realize at an early age what’s the purpose of the class is trying to do: make the Catholics look bad and present a one-sided Liberal view of history.

I appreciate your desire to defend the Catholic Faith but public schools are all about conformity; public school is a system and I think it’s best to understand that.

No matter what you say, you won’t be able to persuade the history teacher that the missionaries were trying to help and protect the Native Americans on several levels (e.g., spiritually, practically, politically).

You might want to mention a few facts taking the Catholic point of view in class but when it comes to writing a paper or whatever the assignment is, I would write the biggest bunch of Liberal garbage you can think of.

I did that during a history final exam; the subject wasn’t about the Catholic Church but 19th Century American politics and institutions; I hadn’t read a lot of the material (I read just about half of all the books and articles handed out), so I just wrote a bunch of Liberal hogwash and I ended up doing fairly decently with a B+ on the Final Exam.

Your grade will suffer otherwise; the history teacher is going to say: “Well, Johnny, you didn’t follow my instructions; I said ONLY use the assigned book. What’s this Catholic Answers stuff? You didn’t do as you were told.”

And that C+ or D+ isn’t going to look good when the paper is handed back to you.

Public School is all about doing as you are told; it’s part of the system; there’s no free speech or freedom of conscience except for the established favored social subgroups of secular society.

I don’t think there’s any moral imperative or command from the Catholic Church that orders you to defend the Faith as a grade student in a secular public school.

It would be morally courageous to do so, but hopefully you want to pursue your education after high school at a top college or university, so I’d just go with the flow and don’t rock the boat until the day you graduate from Medical School.

You might want to mention a few facts taking the Catholic point of view in class in a very low key manner.

Also point out that the English were conducting brutal violent wars of Conquest in Ireland about this time under Oliver Cromwell and outlawed the public practice of Catholicism and confiscated property in a manner similar to what the Spanish were doing to the Native Americans in the New World.

Have you talked to your parents?

They can at least commiserate with you and perhaps see if you can be possibly home schooled.

 

[gracepoole]

At least you realize at an early age what’s the purpose of the class is trying to do: make the Catholics look bad and present a one-sided Liberal view of history.

Holy cow. How can you possibly know that this is the purpose of this class?

 

[mikekle]

I don’t think there’s any moral imperative or command from the Catholic Church that orders you to defend the Faith in a secular school.

It would be morally courageous to do so, but hopefully you want to pursue your education after high school at a top college or university, so I’d just go with the flow and don’t rock the boat until the day you graduate from Medical School.

You are joking…right?

If we are not to defend our faith in the secular world, where should we do it?

That part in red is also why the world is in such bad shape now, too many christians wanting to ‘go along to get along’, rocking the boat is what we are supposed to do imo.

 

[Dwyer]

Holy cow. How can you possibly know that this is the purpose of this class?

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

Here class, read one: just one book; “ONLY” use this book; don’t think for yourself.

Public school; been there; done that.

 

[gracepoole]

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

Here class, read one book; “ONLY” use this book; don’t think for yourself.

Public school; been there; done that.

Oh, well, in that case…

 

[PraiseChrist]

I think you better just do as teacher says and **“ONLY” ** use the work of Anti-Catholic propaganda the teacher gave you to read.

At least you realize at an early age what’s the purpose of the class is trying to do: make the Catholics look bad and present a one-sided Liberal view of history.

I appreciate your desire to defend the Catholic Faith but public schools are all about conformity; public school is a system and I think it’s best to understand that.

No matter what you say, you won’t be able to persuade the history teacher that the missionaries were trying to help and protect the Native Americans on several levels (e.g., spiritually, practically, politically).

You might want to mention a few facts taking the Catholic point of view in class but when it come to writing a paper or whatever the assignment is, I would write the biggest bunch of Liberal garbage you can think of.

I did that during a history final exam; the subject wasn’t about the Catholic Church but 19th Century American politics and institutions; I hadn’t read a lot of the material (I read just about half of all the books and articles handed out), so I just wrote a bunch of Liberal hogwash and I ended up doing fairly decently with a B+ on the Final Exam.

Your grade will suffer otherwise; the history teacher is going to say: “Well, Johnny, you didn’t follow my instructions; I said ONLY use the assigned book. What’s this Catholic Answers stuff? You didn’t do as you were told.” And that C+ or D+ isn’t going to look good when the paper is handed back to you.

Public School is all about doing as you are told; it’s part of the system; there’s no free speech or freedom of conscience except for the established favored social subgroups of secular society.

I don’t think there’s any moral imperative or command from the Catholic Church that orders you to defend the Faith in a secular school.

It would be morally courageous to do so, but hopefully you want to pursue your education after high school at a top college or university, so I’d just go with the flow and don’t rock the boat until the day you graduate from Medical School.

You might want to mention a few facts taking the Catholic point of view in class in a very low key manner.

Also point out that the English were conducting brutal violent wars of Conquest in Ireland about this time under Oliver Cromwell and outlawed the public practice of Catholicism and confiscated property in a manner similar to what the Spanish were doing to the Native Americans in the New World.

Have you talked to your parents?

They can at least commiserate with you and perhaps see if you can be possibly home schooled.

Thanks for your response.

I think that we should defend the faith when it’s explicitly slandered though. It doesn’t look like the assignment is going to go too much into religion, until maybe the test we’ll have in September. But to prepare for that stuff, I would have to read-up, as I was pretty unprepared last school year on this stuff.

Scrupulosity and public school work don’t mix, that’s for sure :crutches:

They can’t have me be homeschooled, thanks though.

 

[PraiseChrist]

Ok so you’re reading something which is somewhat critical of Christian missionaries to the Native Americans I take it. Academically there is nothing wrong with being taught that. Catholic Answers may try and defend what was done but that’s not the only valid opinion on the matter. Fact is while it was a good thing from a Catholic perspective, it was not always so from the Native American’s POV, no from an objective POV. There were many abuses by the missionaries and their compatriots of the Native populations. And pointing those out is not “anti-Catholic”, it’s simply the darker side of the missionary activity in the Americas. It was not always a good or helpful endeavor for those being converted. Sometimes it was downright evil and barbaric.

The Catholic Answers article admits and talks a bit about these abuses as well.
From the Catholic Answers article:

There is no question that European colonialism wrought vast troubles for the tribes and cultures of the New World. But it is unfair to blame the Church for the actions of the European powers—who regularly punished the Jesuits, Franciscans, Augustinians, and countless priests, nuns, and laypeople for speaking out in defense of the suffering natives …]

No informed person would endeavor to maintain that the churchmen were always in the right, but by the same token no one can deny that they were generally on the side of the angels in their treatment of the Indians…] Pope Paul III in 1537 to issue the bull Sublimis Deus in which he declared: “The said Indians and all other people who may later be discovered by Christians, are by no means to be deprived of their liberty or the possession of their property, even though they be outside the faith of Jesus Christ.” (American Catholicism, 5)

The problem is that this book treats as if the goal of all these Christian missionaries was to treat the Natives as human trash.

 

[gracepoole]

The problem is that this book treats as if the goal of all these Christian missionaries was to treat the Natives as human trash.

Can you provide an example?

 

[PraiseChrist]

“Converts who defied the friars suffered severe whippings, while rebellions reaped brutal and destructive reprisals by soldiers” (Taylor 29) is just one example

 

[gracepoole]

“Converts who defied the friars suffered severe whippings, while rebellions reaped brutal and destructive reprisals by soldiers” (Taylor 29) is just one example

This statement is focused on individuals, not the Church. We know individual Catholics have acted immorally from time to time. It’s legitimately possible, then, that there’s nothing inaccurate described here.

Are sources provided?

 

[PraiseChrist]

This statement is focused on individuals, not the Church. We know individual Catholics have acted immorally from time to time. It’s legitimately possible, then, that there’s nothing inaccurate described here.

Are sources provided?

For every chapter, there further readings, not sure if they are sources.
But for some reason, this book really enjoys doing this.

 

[Gertabelle]

“Converts who defied the friars suffered severe whippings, while rebellions reaped brutal and destructive reprisals by soldiers” (Taylor 29) is just one example

Hello.

I grew up in California and studied the missions as part of state history. I think it’s important to distinguish between the actions of soldiers who represented the government, and the actions of friars and others who represented the Church.

Yes, I know the European governments (kings, lords, prime ministers) each aligned themselves with the Catholic Church or some protestant sect during the time of colonization. But a government that aligned itself with Roman Catholicism was still not part of the magisterium and had no more authority in the Church than I do sitting at the organ.

Just saying…

 

[Gertabelle]

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

Here class, read one: just one book; “ONLY” use this book; don’t think for yourself.

Public school; been there; done that.

Oh yes, of course, and all of us public school teachers are just out to get you – BOO!



Sheesh. It is possible the teacher might actually be telling her students that they need only use this book, not that they cannot use other sources. It’s a summer homework assignment. Perhaps she was letting the students know they didn’t need to find ten other sources of their own. Just read the book and use it for your answers. Keep it simple.

Or perhaps she is actually in league with the dark forces and Kylo Ren is her teaching partner.

Sorry you had a difficult time in the public schools. Some students do. So do some teachers. My experience of the past 19 years is that most teachers (99%) love it when students actually think for themselves and notice and question the biases in their texts.

Teachers do not love it, however, when students are rude, disrespectful, or completely unwilling to consider any opposing views to their ideas. I had a student recently, for example, who just interrupted and kept interrupting after he made his point, because I told him that I didn’t agree with his opinion.

He was free to express his opinion. And I gave him opportunity to do so. I also asked him questions. But when he didn’t convince me, he told me I was disrespectful and didn’t care about my students or their beliefs.

This was a fifth grade boy – fifth grade! Now imagine him in middle or high school. Yikes! He’s more concerned about dominating the class than critical thinking. But he’ll never admit that. As far as he is concerned, he is the victim of teachers being bullies if they don’t agree with him. :sad_yes: He is no longer my student, but I will keep him in my prayers for years to come, I have no doubt…

Assume the best, rather than going on the attack.

Respect the honest intellectual differences that others have.

Ask questions respectfully, and present your differences of opinion intellectually.

AND be willing to discover in your research, that sometimes you are wrong.

God bless you all!

 

[Peaceful_One]

Oh yes, of course, and all of us public school teachers are just out to get you – BOO!



Sheesh. It is possible the teacher might actually be telling her students that they need only use this book, not that they cannot use other sources. It’s a summer homework assignment. Perhaps she was letting the students know they didn’t need to find ten other sources of their own. Just read the book and use it for your answers. Keep it simple.

Or perhaps she is actually in league with the dark forces and Kylo Ren is her teaching partner.

Sorry you had a difficult time in the public schools. Some students do. So do some teachers. My experience of the past 19 years is that most teachers (99%) love it when students actually think for themselves and notice and question the biases in their texts.

Teachers do not love it, however, when students are rude, disrespectful, or completely unwilling to consider any opposing views to their ideas. I had a student recently, for example, who just interrupted and kept interrupting after he made his point, because I told him that I didn’t agree with his opinion.

He was free to express his opinion. And I gave him opportunity to do so. I also asked him questions. But when he didn’t convince me, he told me I was disrespectful and didn’t care about my students or their beliefs.

This was a fifth grade boy – fifth grade! Now imagine him in middle or high school. Yikes! He’s more concerned about dominating the class than critical thinking. But he’ll never admit that. As far as he is concerned, he is the victim of teachers being bullies if they don’t agree with him. :sad_yes: He is no longer my student, but I will keep him in my prayers for years to come, I have no doubt…

Assume the best, rather than going on the attack.

Respect the honest intellectual differences that others have.

Ask questions respectfully, and present your differences of opinion intellectually.

AND be willing to discover in your research, that sometimes you are wrong.

God bless you all!

Yes, teaching is hard. Students sometime forget that the teacher has a plan. This is a short book given as a summer assignment. The title: “Colonial America: A Very Short History” tells us that. The author is not going into detail or attempting to provide an exhaustive study. Perhaps the teacher intends to get into more details later and assigned this books simply as an introduction. The reviews I found are all good, though I have not read the book. I do, however, have a Bachelor’s degree in history and know that sometimes short, concise works are used as an introduction to a topic. And as I am only 3 credit hours away from a Master’s in secondary ed, I can see using this tactic when beginning a section on a new topic.

 

[Alex_H]

I did that during a history final exam; the subject wasn’t about the Catholic Church but 19th Century American politics and institutions; I hadn’t read a lot of the material (I read just about half of all the books and articles handed out), so I just wrote a bunch of Liberal hogwash and I ended up doing fairly decently with a B+ on the Final Exam.
.

Haha I know how you feel. I once took a college culture class and the subject we had to write on was Martin Luther and the effects of his reformation.

At first, I was trying to defend the church. But I could tell from the way the questions were worded, the Catholic church was definitely the bad guy for this exam.

So I just wrote a glowing review of Martin Luther and left it at that.

 

[PraiseChrist]

Haha I know how you feel. I once took a college culture class and the subject we had to write on was Martin Luther and the effects of his reformation.

At first, I was trying to defend the church. But I could tell from the way the questions were worded, the Catholic church was definitely the bad guy for this exam.

So I just wrote a glowing review of Martin Luther and left it at that.

I know what you’re talking about, and it’s difficult to get through these things. Criticizing the
Church seems like a detailed instruction of an assignment at times, but I think we should always defend the Church when necessary, and not praise the bad actions of others.
We had a history assignment where we had to argue whether or not Henry VIII was justified in breaking off from the Catholic Church. I just mentioned apostolic succession, that Henry VIII’s intents weren’t really to reform the Church, but for his marriage problems, ect.

I think every Catholic student must know the history behind these things, whether it’s Early Church, Arianism, Reformation, “Enlightenment Era”, ect.

 

[steve_b]

Dear Catholics,

Hello, I need some advice on what to do about some public school work.
I have to read a book over the summer that is biased towards Catholics in the Americas, and I see that Catholic Answers has a good rebuttal. However, we must hand a part of this assignment, and only use the book for help answering some questions.

Is it considered academic dishonesty to read the Catholic response, if it may “influence” \ my answer?

Your school teacher (if this is the case) is entitled to his/her own opinions all day long. But NOT entitled to his/her own truths / facts unchallenged, when they can clearly be challenged … and challenged successfully. When rebutting what appears to be error, always provide qualified and recognized evidence (properly referenced of course) that rebut successfully, the premises being taught or offered.

As an aside, Just because something is in a book, does it automatically mean it is solid and true. Or that it can be defended. Ever read the “disclaimer” in Wikipedia? It is there at the bottom of every article Disclaimers .

 

[PraiseChrist]

Are Catholics bound to do something about this, if it may diminish their Faith?

 

[steve_b]

Are Catholics bound to do something about this, if it may diminish their Faith?

I would say yes