Anti-Catholic Site

[MikeB]

I flipped through the site and read a couple of her articles. After reading the one of where we got the Bible I sent her an email to correct a few points and asked her to read WHERE WE GOT THE BIBLE. I am curious to see if she responds. I’ll let everyone know if she does.

 

[Cairisti]

Argh! I just skimmed a bit of the site - read the one about the Early Christians. Sheesh! The woman who made up the site really needs to read up on actual Church history and the early Church Fathers. (Obviously she never has considering what she wrote!)

The sad thing is that some poor soul will find her site, read it and believe the garbage she has there. :banghead:

 

[amarischuk]

From the site:

        When I entered the convent, I was careful to choose a conservative one which followed the official teachings of the Catholic Church.  My training for religious life included studying the documents of the Second Vatican Counsel, other books relating to Catholic doctrine, and biographies of well known saints.

        I spent over two years as a postulant and a novice.  This was a time of testing for the leaders of the convent, and for me, to decide whether or not I should make vows.  My mother superior had some questions about my calling, and she and the leadership decided that I should not remain in the convent.  I left the convent on good terms and have occasionally been in contact with the sisters since then.

…
I was in religious life for a little over two years. I was a novice but I never made vows. A novice is someone who has entered a religious order and has been given a habit. He or she undergoes training and “religious formation” in preparation for taking vows. (There are novice monks as well as novice nuns.)

        Some people have asked me why I call myself a former nun when I never made vows.  According to “The Catholic Encyclopedia,” if a novice has been accepted by a religious order (which I was) and has been given a religious habit (which I wore), then he or she is a monk or a nun in the broad sense of the term. [Note 1] So I refer to myself as a former nun.

…

1. “Novice” in the 1913 edition of “The Catholic Encyclopedia,” Volume XI. This article is available on-line. The term “novice” refers to both monks and nuns who go through a period of training and preparation. In Section II, “Juridical Condition,” the article states that a novice in a religious order is a “regular” in the widest sense of the word. (A “regular” is a technical term for a monk or a nun.)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11144a.htm

catholicconcerns.com/Download/Bio.doc

Firstly you would assume that a decent publisher would note that it should read “Council” and not “Counsel”.

Secondly, as to Mrs. Collins being a “Nun”, well, maybe she should check the Catholic Encyclopedia article on “Nuns” and not just novices:

1. As regards their juridical condition, we distinguish (a) nuns properly so-called, having solemn vows with papal enclosure, whose homes are monasteries; (b) nuns belonging to the old approved orders with solemn vows, but taking only simple vows by special dispensation of the Holy See; (c) sisters with simple vows dependent on the Holy See; (d) sisters under diocesan government.

newadvent.org/cathen/11164a.htm

 

[Eden]

I sent an e-mail to the author of the site with a link to this forum. I would expect that she would at least take a look to see what we are saying, even if she doesn’t respond. So if anyone has any particular misrepresentation on that site that they find most offensive, maybe she will read it here. It’s worth it to post it and plant the seed.

 

[Sooner4Christ]

Magicsilence:

So, did you get a reply to that?

Also, what is this ralph guy, protestant?, mormon?

Yes, I did and he wrote the following:

The problem is not that I don’t know Catholic doctrine, it appears you don’t know it. The Church indeed teaches that salvation is by works. Maybe not in those words, but I have quoted many times from the Counsel of Trent which says you cannot be saved unless among other things you are baptized in the Catholic Church. That is a work. And as I said there are many more things that the Counsel said which are still Catholic doctrine, but I am not going to go over them here, since I have done so on my pages.

Of Course I replied back to this post. He is a Protestant.

 

[frdave20]

can we say, “lunacy??”"

 

[Sooner4Christ]

frdave20:

can we say, “lunacy??”"

Well… kind of but I replied and said the following:

WIth all do respects, you don’t know the Catholic Faith when it comes to salvation. If you bothered reading my last email you would know that Faith ALONE and Works Alone are false doctrines. The church does not teach Works Alone nor Faith Alone and the confusion resides with the words you try to convey.

I have quoted many times from the Counsel of Trent which says you cannot be saved unless among other things you are baptized in the Catholic Church.
I have quoted the Counsel of Trent and you need to read it fully. “If any one says that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.” Council of Trent, Decree on Justification, Chapter 8, January 13, 1547

I have quoted many times from the Counsel of Trent which says you cannot be saved unless among other things you are baptized in the Catholic Church. That is a work.

BTW did you know that it takes work to carry your cross everyday of your life to be a Christian. Faith without works is dead my friend. If one soley has faith and doesn’t obey Jesus Christ’s commandments he is a hypocrite. FAITH ALONE? No where in the Bible. Also do you know that the Catechism states, ““The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men” (CCC 780).”

Many people like yourself misunderstand the nature of this teaching. There are people that claim that it makes no difference what church one belongs to and that salvation can be attained through any of them. Then you have radical traditionalists that claim that unless one is a full-fledged, baptized member of the Catholic Church, one will be damned.

The following quotations from the Church Fathers give the straight story. They show that the early Church held the same position on this as does the contemporary Church-that while it is normatively necessary to be a Catholic to be saved (see CCC 846; Vatican II, *Lumen Gentium *14), there are exceptions, and it is possible in some circumstances for people to be saved who have not been fully initiated into the Catholic Church (CCC 847).

Notice that the same Fathers who declare the normative necessity of being Catholic also declare the possibility of salvation for some who are not Catholics. These can be saved by what later came to be known as “baptism of blood” or " baptism of desire" (for more on this subject, see the Fathers Know Best pamphlet, “The Necessity of Baptism” March 1998).

The Fathers likewise affirm the possibility of salvation for those who lived before Christ and who were not part of Israel, the Old Testament Church.

I have noticed that you quoted the Counsel of Trent numerous times and you still failed to get what the Counsel of Trent was stating.

I honestly believe you need to read the Bible when it comes to baptism, then come back to the Counsels and see exactly what they conveyed, not what you think they conveyed. That is where the difference occurs.

Bible on Baptism:
This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God 7 for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (1 Pet. 3:21)

Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

*Now, why delay? Get up and have yourself baptized and your sins washed away, calling upon his name.’ *Acts 22:16

We know that our old self was crucified with him, so that our sinful body might be done away with, that we might no longer be in slavery to sin. For a dead person has been absolved from sin. Rom. 6:3–4

In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not administered by hand, by stripping off the carnal body, with the circumcision of Christ. You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. Col. 2:11–12

So Baptism saves us now, the initial justification! The free gift of our Lord!

Now lets go to the Catechism of the Catholic Church
And the Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “The Lord himself affirms that baptism is necessary for salvation [John 3:5]. . . . Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament [Mark 16:16]” (CCC 1257).

 

[Sooner4Christ]

John 3:5 states: *Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. *
Sounds like to me the Catholic Church is going by scripture if Jesus Christ himself stated, “NO ONE CAN ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD WITHOUT BEING BORN OF WATER AND SPIRIT”

OK… Did you know that Martin Luther himself affirmed the necessity of baptism. He wrote: “Baptism is no human plaything but is instituted by God himself. Moreover, it is solemnly and strictly commanded that we must be baptized or we shall not be saved. We are not to regard it as an indifferent matter, then, like putting on a new red coat. It is of the greatest importance that we regard baptism as excellent, glorious, and exalted” (Large Catechism 4:6).

Now… this is the part that obviously you missed in the Catechism…

Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, are saved even if they have not been baptized” (CCC 1281; the salvation of unbaptized infants is also possible under this system; cf. CCC 1260–1, 1283).

So it is possible for one who is not baptized of water to obtain salvation. Do you want to learn about the Early Church Fathers and what they had to say about baptism?

Justin the Marter stated, “As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly . . . are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]” (*First Apology *61 [A.D. 151]).

Again, God Bless you and you will be in my prayers, and please don’t bear false witness against your fellow brother in Christ.