Anti-Catholic

[Darian]

I don’t post very often, but I do lurk from time to time and I have a question. The term “anti-catholic” is thrown around on this board quite frequently, but I am not sure what those who use it mean. I am not catholic, and I disagree strongly with many of the teachings and practices of the RCC. If I stand up and simply say I think you are wrong and this is why, does that make me anti-catholic? Catholics on this board often attack and disagree vehemently with those who are LDS, or Baptist or whatever other flavor of protestant that might be on here. Does that make them anti-baptist, anti-lds, or anti-whatever? It just seems that anytime a catholic come up against a good argument they want to use the anti-catholic lable and that ends the discussion.

 

[shondrea]

To me, an anti Catholic isn’t one who simply disagrees with Catholic doxctrine, but HATES us for our faith. who condemn us, wish us hellfire, and assert that we don’t love Jesus. THAT’s what anti Catholic means to me.

And actually, most people I would label this as aren’t against the true CC, but against what they THINK is the true CC

 

[kristanl]

I think most people take anti-catholic things for statements that are not true.
I.e. Saying we worship statues, worship Mary, believe we work our way into heaven.

If someone just tells us they do not understand/believe what we do doesnt neccesarly make them anti-catholic, only if they are changing what we really teach.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[twopekinguys]

I don’t post very often, but I do lurk from time to time and I have a question. The term “anti-catholic” is thrown around on this board quite frequently, but I am not sure what those who use it mean. I am not catholic, and I disagree strongly with many of the teachings and practices of the RCC. If I stand up and simply say I think you are wrong and this is why, does that make me anti-catholic? Catholics on this board often attack and disagree vehemently with those who are LDS, or Baptist or whatever other flavor of protestant that might be on here. Does that make them anti-baptist, anti-lds, or anti-whatever? It just seems that anytime a catholic come up against a good argument they want to use the anti-catholic lable and that ends the discussion.

There are many factors at work in this. I will simply draw on a few, and others can go from there.

If I start a thread with a title …“All Catholics worship statues and are going to hell!!”, that would obviously be seen by Catholics as “anti”, and any conversation would obviously go down hill from the first post. So, calling that original poster “anti-Catholic” would be justified.

There is also the issue of “tone”. It is very difficult typing a statement and getting the “tone” of what you’re saying through to the general reader. For example, you could read a statement and be offended, while I could read the same statement, and see nothing offensive. It is a matter of perspective.

Then we get into posting history. Posters on these threads, including myself will have encounters with other posters on different threads. In many cases, that history carries over into the current conversation. It isn’t like we’re meeting each other for the first time on each thread we post on…

As far as the term “anti–insert religion here”, it is thrown around alot. Maybe too much, but that is hard to say. You need to remember that most of the people on here are not professional apologists. They don’t have the answer to every question, no matter how much they would like to believe they do.

You mentioned that you see this when you think a poster has been backed into a corner so to speak. When he/she cannot defend a point.

What you will actually see in most cases if you look through an entire thread is that the person who cannot defend their position will abandon the thread (quit posting on it)

Just a couple of my observations, I’m sure you’ll get more from others.

 

[Cursilista]

There are basically two parts to Anti Catholic Thinking

The First is the indoctrination of Protestants that the Catholic church is evil.

There is a segment of the Protestant population that espouses a theory that the Catholic Church is the Queen of Babylon from the book of Revelations. With that goes paganistic worship of statues, ie. Mary and statues of Saints, the Pope is the antichrist, etc. They twist everything around to fit this theory. They write books on this subject , preach to their congregations on this subject and before long, this wrongful theory that they espouse becomes the truth to many. They may hide it when speaking to Catholics but deep down, they have this inherent hatred for the faith because they truly believe this theory.

I know this for a fact. Two groups in particular are the JW’s and the Baptist. I was given a book by a Baptist to read once the spelled it all out. The Book went into the archetecture of the Vatican ,measuring distances of the oboleskes at the Vatican to prove that the same things and distances between them were the same as the City of Babylon. I was married to a JW and saw all their litature. Basically the same thing. They seemed to try and show how wrong Catholics are for praticing their faith the way that they do and picture the Vatican and the Pope and Satans Church on earth.

If you are a Protestant, and be honest, have you not heard of this theory before. If you have, doesnt it affect how you look at the Catholic Church and Catholics in General?
Isnt it always in the back of your mind.

The Second is that Catholics have been studying the bible and understanding the faith through scripture.

When discussing scripture, Catholics were at a disadvantage for many years when speaking with Bible Christians. It was easy to get Catholics to change their faith with some simple verses that the bible christians hold on too as the basis of their faith. Those Catholics were not as well versed in why Catholics do what they do and how those practices are supported by scripture. Today, more Catholics are arming themselves with scripture to support their beliefs. The advantage that Bible Christians had is now being challenged. They are supprised to some degree that we can show scripture to support the Catholic doctrines. Scriptures they now have to answer far that they maybe didnt really go over before. They, if you notice, skirt over the scriptures we point out and revert to their tried and true scriptures to combat our arguments. It frustrates them. In addition, their has been quite a few protestant preachers that have in their journey, studied and came to the realization that the catholic church is the one true church and have converted. No one likes to be told they are or were wrong.

You combine these two mindsets and you get a hostile anti-Catholic consciousness that pervades a segment of the protestant population.

 

[alaindelong]

The genesis of the protestant faith happened over 500 years after Jesus built His Church with Peter. You are Peter and on this rock of faith I will build my church and the powers of hell shall not prevail upon it. Look not on your sins but the faith of your church and know that I am with you always till the end of time. If you believe in Trinitarian theology you must accept that anywhere anyone of the Trinity is present then all 3 are there. Therefore if Jesus is telling Peter that He will be there always until the end of time, then it follows that the Catholic Church will never be left unguided by the Holy Spirit.

I would ask all Protestants to go back to the early church fathers. Salvation history had elapsed over 500 years before Luther’s reformation. To be steeped in salvation history is to cease to be protestant.

 

[Loboto-Me]

The genesis of the protestant faith happened over 500 years after Jesus built His Church with Peter. You are Peter and on this rock of faith I will build my church and the powers of hell shall not prevail upon it. Look not on your sins but the faith of your church and know that I am with you always till the end of time. If you believe in Trinitarian theology you must accept that anywhere anyone of the Trinity is present then all 3 are there. Therefore if Jesus is telling Peter that He will be there always until the end of time, then it follows that the Catholic Church will never be left unguided by the Holy Spirit.

I would ask all Protestants to go back to the early church fathers. Salvation history had elapsed over 500 years before Luther’s reformation. To be steeped in salvation history is to cease to be protestant.

I think you might have gotten lost in which thread you were posting

 

[Moscati]

“Anti-Catholic”, to me, signifies hatred, lies, and propoganda.

My family was and is still very much opposed to the Catholic Church and Catholic teaching. They are not, however, “anti-Catholic” in this sense anymore (for the most part)–firstly because they love me, Catholic or not, and secondly because my father was able to reconcile with his Catholic father before Grandpa died.

Soo . . . anti-Catholic is Jack Chick. Sincere, respectful disagreements with Church teaching (given that one truly understands Catholic teaching) is not anti-Catholic, IMO.

 

[stbruderklaus]

I would offer, that CAF has become noticably less hospitable over the last year or so… which is why I’ve often just ignored it. I, too, have noticed a tendency of late, that when a Roman Catholic is in a position they can’t explain, furious responses tend to ensue, including the personal slander of “anti-catholic.”

Frankly, when I’ve been persuaded to enter one of these threads from time to time, I rarely find them culminating in good dialogue anymore. They seem more often to turn into rants (as some of the posts above might demonstrate.)

I grew up a Baptist, and now am a confessional Lutheran (have been for going on two decades,) and never along the way have I been “anti-catholic.” In fact, it was my search for authentic catholicity that lead me to the Lutheran Confessions, and the faith of the early Fathers that it constantly references. My most common reason for abandoning a thread is not that I can’t defend a point, but that the tone and vitriol of the thread has simply become toxic.

This might also be symptomatic of the funding issues facing CAF these days. Perhaps, if the forum was more charitable, as it was in years gone by, more folks would be contributing to it. As it is, I wouldn’t send another dime.

Grace and peace.

There are many factors at work in this. I will simply draw on a few, and others can go from there.

If I start a thread with a title …“All Catholics worship statues and are going to hell!!”, that would obviously be seen by Catholics as “anti”, and any conversation would obviously go down hill from the first post. So, calling that original poster “anti-Catholic” would be justified.

There is also the issue of “tone”. It is very difficult typing a statement and getting the “tone” of what you’re saying through to the general reader. For example, you could read a statement and be offended, while I could read the same statement, and see nothing offensive. It is a matter of perspective.

Then we get into posting history. Posters on these threads, including myself will have encounters with other posters on different threads. In many cases, that history carries over into the current conversation. It isn’t like we’re meeting each other for the first time on each thread we post on…

As far as the term “anti–insert religion here”, it is thrown around alot. Maybe too much, but that is hard to say. You need to remember that most of the people on here are not professional apologists. They don’t have the answer to every question, no matter how much they would like to believe they do.

You mentioned that you see this when you think a poster has been backed into a corner so to speak. When he/she cannot defend a point.

What you will actually see in most cases if you look through an entire thread is that the person who cannot defend their position will abandon the thread (quit posting on it)

Just a couple of my observations, I’m sure you’ll get more from others.

 

[Darian]

The genesis of the protestant faith happened over 500 years after Jesus built His Church with Peter. You are Peter and on this rock of faith I will build my church and the powers of hell shall not prevail upon it. Look not on your sins but the faith of your church and know that I am with you always till the end of time. If you believe in Trinitarian theology you must accept that anywhere anyone of the Trinity is present then all 3 are there. Therefore if Jesus is telling Peter that He will be there always until the end of time, then it follows that the Catholic Church will never be left unguided by the Holy Spirit.

I would ask all Protestants to go back to the early church fathers. Salvation history had elapsed over 500 years before Luther’s reformation. To be steeped in salvation history is to cease to be protestant.

This has nothing to do with the original question or topic. Please don’t hijack this thread.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I am quick to let someone know if I feel they are being anti-Catholic. When someone uses an ‘anti-Catholic’ website as a source and calls it fact, rejecting all Catholic explanations, that’s being ‘anti-Catholic’ in my opinion.

There are times I present scriptures and an explanation of interpretation supporting some Catholic beliefs. When someone cannot even agree that they can see how the belief is scriptural, even if they do not agree with the interpretation, that, again, is being ‘anti-Catholic’.

When misconceptions are explained and one continues an offense using the misconception and not recognizing the explanation, whatsoever, what would you call it?

 

[Robert_in_SD]

I don’t post very often, but I do lurk from time to time and I have a question. The term “anti-catholic” is thrown around on this board quite frequently, but I am not sure what those who use it mean. I am not catholic, and I disagree strongly with many of the teachings and practices of the RCC. If I stand up and simply say I think you are wrong and this is why, does that make me anti-catholic? Catholics on this board often attack and disagree vehemently with those who are LDS, or Baptist or whatever other flavor of protestant that might be on here. Does that make them anti-baptist, anti-lds, or anti-whatever? It just seems that anytime a catholic come up against a good argument they want to use the anti-catholic lable and that ends the discussion.

Welcome to the forums Darian.

I think that different people mean different things when they use the term, and you have to try to understand the term in context. It may be that a person uses the term simply to define a position that is opposed to Catholic teaching. For example, someone may say that the media’s support of the “gay marriage” debate is anti-Catholic. The better posters go on to explain why it is so.

Another way someone may use the term is to describe a person who, for reasons that go beyond mere doctrinal disagreement, is personally opposed to the Catholic Church and its teachings. For example, when dealing with someone on the extreme fringe of the debate like Ian Paisley or Jack Chick, the term “anti-Catholic” may also intend to include this personal animosity directed at the Church and its visible leaders. Certainly with respect to the latter of these two people, ithe distribution of misinformation is being “justified” on the grounds that lying is necessary to “save” people from the (presumptively evil) Catholic Church. In this sense, “anti-Catholic” goes well beyond just taking a contrary doctrinal position but also encompasses dishonesty and misinformation to undermine the credibility of the Church.

It may also be the case that a person uses the term “anti-Catholic” in response to an argument to indicate that the person’s position is completely unsupported by sound reasoning. In other words, the person has made up his or her mind against the Catholic Church and feels no need to justify that decision.

I tend not to use the term very much in my discussions here. It can easily be perceived as name-calling.

I tend to agree with you that a percentage of Catholics (statistically no bigger or smaller than any other faith tradition) may resort to name calling if they cannot respond to the merits of an argument. But it would be error in any case to think that an ad hominim attack betrays anything other than a weakness in the person.

Do you really think that “any time” a Catholic is confronted with a cogent argument he or she degenerates into name-calling? I’ve been here since the forums opened and while I’ve seen a few people like this, most people here are sincere in their attempts to discuss their faith.

Peace,
Robert

 

[Loboto-Me]

Robert in SD
Very nicely explained and done with gentle heart too

 

[peary]

I don’t post very often, but I do lurk from time to time and I have a question. The term “anti-catholic” is thrown around on this board quite frequently, but I am not sure what those who use it mean. I am not catholic, and I disagree strongly with many of the teachings and practices of the RCC. If I stand up and simply say I think you are wrong and this is why, does that make me anti-catholic? Catholics on this board often attack and disagree vehemently with those who are LDS, or Baptist or whatever other flavor of protestant that might be on here. Does that make them anti-baptist, anti-lds, or anti-whatever? It just seems that anytime a catholic come up against a good argument they want to use the anti-catholic lable and that ends the discussion.

It is not difficult to understand. The term “anti-Catholic” means exactly what it means: a hatred for the Catholic Church, even to the point of being vitriolic. You will note that this term refers to those who insist the pope is the anti-christ, or that the Virgin Mary was simply a human incubator, or that all priests and nuns are sexually repressed individuals who sneak through tunnels for profane unions, or that their offspring are sacrificed on underground satanic altars, or that Catholics are not saved, etc. etc. - nonsense like that.
Now, not agreeing with Church teaching is also a form of anti-Catholicism though on a lesser scale, simply because you are rejecting the teachings of the Church. Now, if a Catholic Christian disagrees vehemently with those who are LDS, or Baptist, or whatever else, does that make him or her anti-LDS, or anti-Baptist? Yes, it does, but it does not have the same connotation, since we firmly believe that the Catholic Church is the true and original biblical Church of the Bible as described in ACTS. and we have the historical records to show that it is, whether one agrees with the present structure of the Church as it exists today or not.

Some Catholics cannot handle discussions with other Christian denominations, and that is too bad. They will result in name-calling and other such stuff (sometimes I too am guilty of this if I really get ticked off about something, unfortunately). The forum ‘gods’ will usually step in and offer an advisement which has also happened to me personally.

It is paramount that we practice Christian charity, even in here. Most denominations have valid baptism which means that those who come in here from different denominations are our brethren in Christ, though separated from us. They too, share in the prayers and good works of the true Church and are also offered salvation. We need to remember this. I had a spiritual director once tell me “Say what you mean and mean what you say - but don’t say it mean.” Everybody needs to remember this, I believe.

 

[melekali]

I don’t post very often, but I do lurk from time to time and I have a question. The term “anti-catholic” is thrown around on this board quite frequently, but I am not sure what those who use it mean. I am not catholic, and I disagree strongly with many of the teachings and practices of the RCC. If I stand up and simply say I think you are wrong and this is why, does that make me anti-catholic? Catholics on this board often attack and disagree vehemently with those who are LDS, or Baptist or whatever other flavor of protestant that might be on here. Does that make them anti-baptist, anti-lds, or anti-whatever? It just seems that anytime a catholic come up against a good argument they want to use the anti-catholic lable and that ends the discussion.

Having a rational, respectful discussion and disagreeing does not make one anti-anything. Those who are irrational and disrespectful have earned their label. They ought to wear it proudly or give it away. The second option is much healthier.

 

[BernadetteM]

I would offer, that CAF has become noticably less hospitable over the last year or so… which is why I’ve often just ignored it. I, too, have noticed a tendency of late, that when a Roman Catholic is in a position they can’t explain, furious responses tend to ensue, including the personal slander of “anti-catholic.”

Frankly, when I’ve been persuaded to enter one of these threads from time to time, I rarely find them culminating in good dialogue anymore. They seem more often to turn into rants (as some of the posts above might demonstrate.)

I grew up a Baptist, and now am a confessional Lutheran (have been for going on two decades,) and never along the way have I been “anti-catholic.” In fact, it was my search for authentic catholicity that lead me to the Lutheran Confessions, and the faith of the early Fathers that it constantly references. My most common reason for abandoning a thread is not that I can’t defend a point, but that the tone and vitriol of the thread has simply become toxic.

This might also be symptomatic of the funding issues facing CAF these days. Perhaps, if the forum was more charitable, as it was in years gone by, more folks would be contributing to it. As it is, I wouldn’t send another dime.

Grace and peace.

It is just human nature to defend your beliefs when they feel they are being attacked. I have been around CAF for a few years, not posting until a year or so ago and except for a few Catholics I don’t see what your speaking of.

Yes of late there have been more Lutherans and of course the Church denies that Lutherans have the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, otherwise we would all be one.

If you want anti Catholic hatred there is a Lutheran forum that is just as some posters have stated. They call the Pope the antichrist and make fun of our faith. They even turn against other Lutherans who have a more catholic viewpoint on the sacraments and how the liturgy is celebrated.

Once in a while a Catholic will post, but rarely do you see any posters except Lutherans.

I think CAF is one of the fairest and most charitable forums I have seen. There are many from other faiths that come here to learn and many who just come to cause the posters to feel angry and those are the posts that are probably seen as anti protestant.

We have some lovely Lutheran posters here and they state their opinions in a very charitable manner and are treated with great respect. The same goes for others who are not Catholic. I am a convert and have been dismayed by the hatred from my former brothers and sisters who are posting on their boards very anti catholic threads.

If a person is going to enter into a Catholic or protestant forum they should expect there can be heated debate that is natural. As imperfect people sometimes someone will go beyond what is acceptable. I have gotten to the point of rarely going on a very anti catholic board, and if I do I stay for a few minutes. If you are so troubled it is best as you said that you don’t post here often, that you don’t visit this forum, as I found that visiting the above mentioned forum upsets me. For your own spiritual well being find a forum where you feel comfortable, it is not worth it if CAF is so offensive to you. I say this with only the best intentions, not because your not welcome, I just know if something offends me greatly it is best to stay away from it.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[kalt]

I don’t post very often, but I do lurk from time to time and I have a question. The term “anti-catholic” is thrown around on this board quite frequently, but I am not sure what those who use it mean. I am not catholic, and I disagree strongly with many of the teachings and practices of the RCC. If I stand up and simply say I think you are wrong and this is why, does that make me anti-catholic? Catholics on this board often attack and disagree vehemently with those who are LDS, or Baptist or whatever other flavor of protestant that might be on here. Does that make them anti-baptist, anti-lds, or anti-whatever? It just seems that anytime a catholic come up against a good argument they want to use the anti-catholic lable and that ends the discussion.

An anti-Catholis is one who insists that Catholicism is something other than what it is. For example, an anti-Catholic will insist that Catholics worship Mary. An anti-Catholic is someone who may or may not know much about Catholicism and who thinks that the Church should be abolished. (Yes, they’re out there.)

 

[Dancelittleewok]

An anti-Catholis is one who insists that Catholicism is something other than what it is. For example, an anti-Catholic will insist that Catholics worship Mary. An anti-Catholic is someone who may or may not know much about Catholicism and who thinks that the Church should be abolished. (Yes, they’re out there.)

It depends on whether these views are being espoused due to ignorance, malicious intent, etc. If it is due to ignorance or merely repeating what they’ve been taught in church or read on a non-reliable website, then I’d be inclined to educate them about the Church and what she really believes. But I do believe that it’s possible that those whom have been correctly examined Church’s teaching and rejected them for intellectual or other reasons, they might not have malicious intent either. Even those that believe that Catholics are damned, they are trying to save us from the pains of hell.

 

[kalt]

It depends on whether these views are being espoused due to ignorance, malicious intent, etc. If it is due to ignorance or merely repeating what they’ve been taught in church or read on a non-reliable website, then I’d be inclined to educate them about the Church and what she really believes. But I do believe that it’s possible that those whom have been correctly examined Church’s teaching and rejected them for intellectual or other reasons, they might not have malicious intent either. Even those that believe that Catholics are damned, they are trying to save us from the pains of hell.

I think the intent is irrelevant. If they’re anti-Catholic they’re anti-Catholic, even if they think they’re trying to “save” us.

We’ve seen posters insist that we worship Mary even when they’re shown that we don’t. Insisting that we do when we don’t, imo, is anti-Catholic thinking. It’s anti-Catholic thinking, because the “anti” trumps the truth that is shown to them.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

I think the intent is irrelevant. If they’re anti-Catholic they’re anti-Catholic, even if they think they’re trying to “save” us.

We’ve seen posters insist that we worship Mary even when they’re shown that we don’t. Insisting that we do when we don’t, imo, is anti-Catholic thinking. It’s anti-Catholic thinking, because the “anti” trumps the truth that is shown to them.

If I understand you, you’re saying that if one is so prejudiced towards the Church that she will not listen to Catholics themselves then one, in your view, is anti-Catholic? If that’s the case, then I agree with you; I’ve posted on CARM. My contention is that the prejudice could be born due to ignorance or even misplaced charity. Just because one says that the Church worships the saints, it could be that one doesn’t know any better.