Anti-Catholicism

[rinnie]

1John 1: 9 says that?

Yes that is the teaching of the Early Fathers of the Church. What part of that scripture to disagree with the Early Fathers with?

 

[rinnie]

Pentecostal: Of, relating to or occuring at Pentecost. 2. Of relating to or being of various Christan religious congregations whose members seek to be filled with the Holy Spirit in emulation of the Apostles at Penrecost such as speaking in tongues, healing, preaching, teaching, etc. . A member of a Pentecostal congregation "Pentecostals rejected the belief of many fundamentalists that God had ceased to reveal himself to man.

That is what the dictionary has to say, however there is much more to it. The Bible is our guide, simply because it is the ONLY infallible Word of God.

Not according to the bible. Who is your source for this? Because the bible itself does not agree with you.

The TRUE RULE OF FAITH as EXPRESSED in the BIBLE itself----------is scripture plus apostolic TRADITION as manifested in the living teaching of the CC which were entrusted the oral teachings of Jesus and the apostles along with the authority to interpret Scripture correctly.

Now you just said yourself you reject the belief that God ceased to reveal himself to man so how could you deny his oral teaching’s then. Are you saying he didn’t talk or what?

Now you said you know the Catholic teachings surely you would know that the bible states this. Certainly you would know the difference between Oral teachings and ones that are written.

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

This is almost funny. I tell you what I am called, and you tell me I am not. [BIBLEDRB] I am Pentocostal[/BIBLEDRB], I am a girl, I live in a house. I know how to spell (most of the time) and I don’t need you to tell me what I am. We believe in the entire bible and that means ALL of the gifts of the Spirit. Many Ptotestant churchs do not. I am Not the least squemish to be called a Protestant even tho that is not correct. Great people.

That is what you said and according to Websters dictionary he also disagrees with you. So you are saying the dictionary is lying too?

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Websters New world dictionary.

Protestant ANY Christian not belonging to the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Church.

That is the exact quote. Can it get any easier then that.

Right above the word is Protest. which came from the word pro-forth + testari affirm. To speak strongly AGAINST.

What is the problem?

You asked me to look it up, I looked it up in the American Heritage Dictionary, I wrote what it said, and you look it up in the Websters Dictionary, with one line, and ask me 'what’s the problem"…I have no problem. It seems that no matter what I say you must correct. Now if the American Heritage Dictionary was not what you wanted, all you had to do is say I only accept deffinitions from Webbster and I would have used that. I donn’t think I am the one with the problem if something that simple gets your irore up. Did you even read my answer to your question. There is NO PROBLEM. I am soooooooooooooooo sorry.

 

[Leslie_Polley]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

That is what you said and according to Websters dictionary he also disagrees with you. So you are saying the dictionary is lying too?

Rinnie, I looked in the American Heritage Dictionary. I did not know that I had to use Webster or I would have. I have that one. too. What is your problem…as you asked me in # 407…you get hot over the dictionary. They say what they say. I just wrote down all the meaning I found. I thought I was being a good girl. Smack me with a ruler.

 

[1beleevr]

Yes that is the teaching of the Early Fathers of the Church. What part of that scripture to disagree with the Early Fathers with?

Okay, I think I’ve got it now; If I confess my sins to God, through Jesus Christ, my mediator, He(God) is faithful to forgive ME of all unrighteousness!

 

[fbl9]

Got with the dictionary now I am back with you…QUOTE.Protestant…1. A member of a Western Christian church whose faith and practice are founded on the principles of the Protestant Reformantion especially in the acceptance of the Bible as the sole source of revelation, in justification by faith alone and in the universal priesthood of all the believers.

so pentacostals don’t beleieve this

1. A member of a Western Christain church adhering to the theologies of Luther Calvin or Zwingli.

the last pentacostal church i was in taught Calvinist theology: i guess that has changed

1. One who supported the protestation presented by the GermanLutheran states ag ainst the revocation of the decree of the Diet of Speyer . 4. One who makes a declaration or an avowal, or relating to Protestans or Protestantiam. From the Latin Protestans…Present participle of protestari to protest…That of course was the last line, wnicn means that it has the least signifigance. If your going to quote it quote it all. Not just what is convinient.

Now I am not protestant, I am Penticostal.

and since these last definitions are least important, they don’t apply to you…

 

[fbl9]

Pentecostal: Of, relating to or occuring at Pentecost. 2. Of relating to or being of various Christan religious congregations whose members seek to be filled with the Holy Spirit in emulation of the Apostles at Penrecost such as speaking in tongues, healing, preaching, teaching, etc. . A member of a Pentecostal congregation "Pentecostals rejected the belief of many fundamentalists that God had ceased to reveal himself to man.

That is what the dictionary has to say, however there is much more to it. The Bible is our guide, simply because it is the ONLY infallible Word of God.

With a bunch of fallible people telling others that they have the “truth”,for some reason i don’t believe the claim you make that the bible is your only guide.More to the truth your only guide is what your pastor makes the bible say.

Scripture tells us who the only guide really is…and sure isn’t a group that was started in the late eighteen hundreds

 

[Javl]

With a bunch of fallible people telling others that they have the “truth”,for some reason i don’t believe the claim you make that the bible is your only guide.More to the truth your only guide is what your pastor makes the bible say.

Scripture tells us who the only guide really is…and sure isn’t a group that was started in the late eighteen hundreds

And I totaly agree. Prime examples are the 30,000 or so worldwide churches, each of
which say they use the Bible as their guide. Yet there are 30,000 different messages,
each disagreeing with the other. “Sola Scriptura”, the cause of the splintering of Christendom.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[rinnie]

Okay, I think I’ve got it now; If I confess my sins to God, through Jesus Christ, my mediator, He(God) is faithful to forgive ME of all unrighteousness!

Is that what Jesus said?

In Matt 16 Jesus chose apostles who would have authority in his Church entrusted to them his message and his sacaments and promised to be with them always.

So lets make it real simple. I like real simple.

Do you believe that Jesus had the Power to forgive sin? Yes or no? Do you believe Jesus had the power to breath on the Apostles and give them that power through the Holy Spirit? Yes or No?

There is no way I can convince you anymore then the word of God. In Acts 2 It talks about Pentecost how that power was given. Now Peter cured a cripple man. Do you believe this? Yes or No? Now did Peter cure him or did God? How can you deny the Power of Gods work. How can you believe that Peter could cure a cripple by the Power of the Holy Spirit but not forgive sins? Now go back to your question you just asked me, sounds kinda silly huh? WHo cured the cripple then Peter? Or was it by the Power God gave him? You tell me.

Did you not read Peters words. Do you now hear mine. 3:12 You israelites WHY are you so AMAZED by this and why do you look so INTENTELY AT US as if WE MADE HIM WALK BY OUR OWN POWER OR PEITY.

The he goes on and says repent and be converted so that your sins may be wiped away.

Does this not tie in to the other scripture I gave you the other day. What did Jesus tell them whats easier to tell a man to get up and walk or say your sins are forgiven. Think about that. Peter just did the same exact thing Jesus did. But you deny the power of the Holy Spirit still.

So I don’t think you have got it my Love. No scripture can I give you any clearer then I have.

If you want proof that Peter was filled with the Holy SPirit, and Pentecost is not enough here are the exact words. Acts 4:8 THEN PETER FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPRIIT ANSWERED THEM.

lB Do you believe that Jesus really gave them that power? Are you saying Jesus gave them power to cure but not forgive sins. Even when he said he did. Was that not proof enough?

 

[Leslie_Polley]

I believe I have answered your questions. If not, can you tell me which ones I have not answered? These are all your questions addressed to me so far:

Here’s your straw man back, why don’t you put him up in your corn field where he might actually do some good? - From your post #369, answered in my post #380.

Might I ask why you capitalized the word churches? - From your post #369, answered in my post #380.

Who heals the lame man? It is Paul? Is it the Church? No, it is Jesus Christ! - From your post #369, answered in my post #380.

Does that sound like the Catholic Church to you? - From your post #370, answered in my post #381.

Does that sound like the Catholic Church to you? - From your post #370, answered in my post #381.

Does that sound like the Catholic Church to you? - From your post #370, answered in my post #381.

As for you, you still have one answer pending. This will be the third time I ask you: if Luther was right and the Catholic Church was wrong, why aren’t you a Lutheran? [Check my posts #355 and #380]

OK then, Rome or Jerusalem? [Read my post #384 on page 26]
We are not in error. It can mean both. It can be Rome, but not the Rome of the Popes by any chance. When John wrote the Apocalypse Rome was the capital of a pagan Empire and it stayed like that for nearly 300 more years. If it means Rome it’s more likely that it refers to Rome before it stopped killing Christians (33-313 AD). In that case, the “prophets and saints” blood is the blood of the Christians killed by the pagan Roman Emperors, and the fall of the pagan Roman Empire fulfills “Babylon has fallen”.

But to some scholars the prophesy of this passage was fulfilled before the death of the last of the Apostles. There is the belief that the Apocalypse (Revelation) was written BEFORE the year 70. Apocalypse 14:8 is tied to Apocalypse 18:24, “In this city [Babylon] was found blood of prophets and saints - yes, the blood of all who have been slain on the earth.” Jerusalem is the city that killed prophets [John the Baptist for one], not Rome. The Temple of Jerusalem was destroyed “Babylon has fallen?”] in the year 70 AD, thus fulfilling this vision of John while he was still alive. Remember, Jerusalem was killing Christians before the year 70 AD [Paul was there], so the name Babylon can be applied to Jerusalem as well. Anyway, if Rome is what you think it is, it has never meant to be understood as Rome under the Popes. But then again, if you still believe it’s meant to be Rome under the Popes, who are the prophets that have been killed by Catholic Rome? Can you give us one name, just one prophet’s name killed by a Catholic Pope?

God bless you

Christians where being killed in Roman arena by the thousands as well. Rome has always been the known for the persecution of the Christians. And by the way, you have never answered my questions, or most of them either. What about Peter being the one with other apostles to preqach to the Jews…Paul was the deciple for the gentiles. Does that make Peter the Pope of the Jews. I have more questions, but I will start with one, and it probably will not be answered wither. I have asked it at least 3 times.

By the way.The apostles and the deciples were first known as “THE WAY”

 

[1beleevr]

Is that what Jesus said?

In Matt 16 Jesus chose apostles who would have authority in his Church entrusted to them his message and his sacaments and promised to be with them always.

So lets make it real simple. I like real simple.

Do you believe that Jesus had the Power to forgive sin? Yes or no? Do you believe Jesus had the power to breath on the Apostles and give them that power through the Holy Spirit? Yes or No?

There is no way I can convince you anymore then the word of God. In Acts 2 It talks about Pentecost how that power was given. Now Peter cured a cripple man. Do you believe this? Yes or No? Now did Peter cure him or did God? How can you deny the Power of Gods work. How can you believe that Peter could cure a cripple by the Power of the Holy Spirit but not forgive sins? Now go back to your question you just asked me, sounds kinda silly huh? WHo cured the cripple then Peter? Or was it by the Power God gave him? You tell me.

Did you not read Peters words. Do you now hear mine. 3:12 You israelites WHY are you so AMAZED by this and why do you look so INTENTELY AT US as if WE MADE HIM WALK BY OUR OWN POWER OR PEITY.

The he goes on and says repent and be converted so that your sins may be wiped away.

Does this not tie in to the other scripture I gave you the other day. What did Jesus tell them whats easier to tell a man to get up and walk or say your sins are forgiven. Think about that. Peter just did the same exact thing Jesus did. But you deny the power of the Holy Spirit still.

So I don’t think you have got it my Love. No scripture can I give you any clearer then I have.

If you want proof that Peter was filled with the Holy SPirit, and Pentecost is not enough here are the exact words. Acts 4:8 THEN PETER FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPRIIT ANSWERED THEM.

lB Do you believe that Jesus really gave them that power? Are you saying Jesus gave them power to cure but not forgive sins. Even when he said he did. Was that not proof enough?

]

John said,“If we confess our sins, He is faithful to forgive us all unrighteousness!” I do believe that on Pentecost, the disciples received the Holy Spirit. I do believe, even today,that an anointed few have the gift of healing? Whether He actually gave them the power to forgive sins, is still up for debate Why did Peter and the others always say, “confess your sins, turn to God for forgiveness, and be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ.”(look at the order of events) Jesus(because He is God) can endow anyone with any ability He wants; but all scripture used to support the notion that MAN can forgive sins is open for interpretation! All Christians interpret scripture, and if led by the Holy Spirit,(“He will lead you into Truth”), are better able to discern the Truth! Some add to scripture, some take away, and some tweak it until it fits their agenda! This is what catholics accuse non-catholics of doing! But I do appreciate all of your hard work, in lining up all these verses; and you are so cute when you are making a point! So I stand by the asertion that as far as we know, Jesus never told US to go to a priest for confession:thumbsup:

 

[Leslie_Polley]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

That is what you said and according to Websters dictionary he also disagrees with you. So you are saying the dictionary is lying too?

READ #407 Read it as many times as you have to.

 

[Thing]

Christians where being killed in Roman arena by the thousands as well. Rome has always been the known for the persecution of the Christians. And by the way, you have never answered my questions, or most of them either. What about Peter being the one with other apostles to preqach to the Jews…Paul was the deciple for the gentiles. Does that make Peter the Pope of the Jews. I have more questions, but I will start with one, and it probably will not be answered wither. I have asked it at least 3 times.

By the way.The apostles and the deciples were first known as “THE WAY”

Rome is Rome. But the Popes home is not Rome. Tis the Vatican City State. A little country on the edge of Rome.

Um. If its known as the Way, how are you a Pentacostal?

Thanks and bye bye.

 

[Thing]

]

John said,“If we confess our sins, He is faithful to forgive us all unrighteousness!” I do believe that on Pentecost, the disciples received the Holy Spirit. I do believe, even today,that an anointed few have the gift of healing? Whether He actually gave them the power to forgive sins, is still up for debate Why did Peter and the others always say, “confess your sins, turn to God for forgiveness, and be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ.”(look at the order of events) Jesus(because He is God) can endow anyone with any ability He wants; but all scripture used to support the notion that MAN can forgive sins is open for interpretation! All Christians interpret scripture, and if led by the Holy Spirit,(“He will lead you into Truth”), are better able to discern the Truth! Some add to scripture, some take away, and some tweak it until it fits their agenda! This is what catholics accuse non-catholics of doing! But I do appreciate all of your hard work, in lining up all these verses; and you are so cute when you are making a point! So I stand by the asertion that as far as we know, Jesus never told US to go to a priest for confession:thumbsup:

Whatever happened to;

5 Be you also as living stones built up, a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

and…

16 Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.

because of this…

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord

 

[Leslie_Polley]

of course we dont expect any one outsied the Church to understand what we understand what the Church is. the Body of Christ. Christ and His Body is one.

i just read here someone saying that a Catholic called the Church Jesus therefore we are worshipping the Church. i guess i understimated of how dificult it is to argue wiht people who have a complete view of Sacred Scriptures.

:byzsoc:

No Christ is the HEAD, we are the body…He is the VINE we are the branches.Romans 12:1-21For as we hamny members in one body, and all members have not the same office; So we being many are one body in Christ and every one members one of another. Having then the gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, wheither prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith: Or ministry, let us wait onn our ministering or he that teacheth on teaching. Or he that exhorteth on exhortation; he that giveth let him do it with simplicity; he that rueth with diligence, he that sheweth mercy with cheerfulness…continue to read thru 21…

 

[Leslie_Polley]

With a bunch of fallible people telling others that they have the “truth”,for some reason i don’t believe the claim you make that the bible is your only guide.More to the truth your only guide is what your pastor makes the bible say.

Scripture tells us who the only guide really is…and sure isn’t a group that was started in the late eighteen hundreds

You know, since I have been on this forum, I have been called a liar, confused, ignorant, and a few other things. I really don’t care what you think. The Bible IS my guide. Our pastors teach from the Word, and your right they CAN BE FALLIBLE, so I ALWAYS check with the Word (Bible). But let me tell you this. My husband was a pastor for 35 years, since he was 21. He not only taught others about Christ and the Word of God, he lived it. He NEVER took the easy way out and used old messages, he studied EVERYDAY. He prayed EVERYDAY. He did not smoke or drink, or use the Lords name. I have known MANY priests that do. If you want names , States, and the names of the Churches, I will be glad to tell you…no problem. My husband did not comdemn anyone for taking a glass of wine, because it says you can in scripture, but I have seen priests drunk…good example. TWO were at my cousins wedding. Now I realize ministers are guilty of the same thing, but don’t you think a “priest” should be above that. My husband NEVER condemned anyone. He preached the whole Word of God, that was his calling, and then turned it over to God. If you say one word about him it will prove what Pharisees you are. He didn’t just talk the talk, he walked the walk. So yes I did listen to my pastor, who was also my husband. But you know what…I check what he said to, and we discussed the Word daily. Do you believe if someone leaves the Catholic church they are going to hell…One answer…YES OR NO. This time ANSWER THE QUESTION.

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Rome is Rome. But the Popes home is not Rome. Tis the Vatican City State. A little country on the edge of Rome.

Um. If its known as the Way, how are you a Pentacostal?

Thanks and bye bye.

You must not have been Cataechized properly…Before the name Christian came into being, they where known as THE WAY. Look it up I go to a penticostal church, I am penticostal because I believe in ALL of the gifts, and that they are for today as well…If you want to get specific UM I am a CHRISTIAN. I know the Pope is in Vatican City…I was there. When was your last trip…UM Your welcome and bye bye

 

[Leslie_Polley]

we are saved by the church. Jesus explained to st. Paul that he and his church are one. Persecute his church and you persecute jesus. Accept his church and you accept jesus. Reject his church and you reject jesus. You can not seperate the two and say that we are saved by jesus and not by the church because the two are one.

you are not saved by a church… Read romans 10;9-10 just for one. Christ is the head of the church…we are the church. If you leave the catholic church and have accepted christ as you personal saviour you will be saved!!!i it’s in the book…the bible i mean

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Drawmack:

I say this in all charity. I see from your posts you know nothing about Catholicism and you
have closed your mind to learning about it. You seem to believe in and accept all the errors, myths, lies and mis-conceptions about it. Please, for once listen and engage in useful dialogue and learn what Catholicism trully is. Pray to the Holy Spirit. He will help
you has He has helped us. God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Well in JAVI’S defence, you don’t know anything about ANY of the protestant churches either!