Anti-collectivism in Lord of the Rings

[Angainor]

I don’t know Peter Jackson’s politics, and I understand why he didn’t include some of the last chapters from the books into his movies, but I think it a shame that he had to drop the chapter “The Scouring of the Shire”. I would have loved to see this dialogue in a modern blockbuster movie:

‘What’s the matter with the place?’ said Merry. ‘Has it been a bad year, or what? I thought it had been a fine summer and harvest.’
‘Well no, the year’s been good enough,’ said Hob. ‘We grows a lot of food, but we don’t rightly know what becomes of it. It’s all these “gatherers” and “sharers”, I reckon, going round counting an measuring and taking of to storage, and we never see most of the stuff again.’

 

[Philip_P]

LOTR politics always struck me as being very anti-industrial (notice how it’s the bad guys who use machines, build factories, etc). I think you are right that it is anti-collectivist, but I think it is equally against collectivism by the private sector just as much as by a government. Put another way, LOTR is anti-big business as well as anti-big government in it’s political philosophy,

 

[Brain]

oh yeah, JRR Tolkien once said the most disarsterous invention ever was the internal combustion engine. he was really anti-industrial.

 

[Agricola]

Hmm… reminds me of home (Canada that is). There’s a lot of truth in the pages of LOTR and you point out an example in one of the simplest, little noticed parts of the book.

I would have liked to see “The Scouring of the Shire” in the movie also… mind you, I would have liked to see a lot of things in it that were changed or removed… I think I’ll write a poem entitled “A Lament for the Loss of Tom Bombadil”.

God bless,

Agricola

 

[Angainor]

Philip P:

LOTR politics always struck me as being very anti-industrial (notice how it’s the bad guys who use machines, build factories, etc). I think you are right that it is anti-collectivist, but I think it is equally against collectivism by the private sector just as much as by a government. Put another way, LOTR is anti-big business as well as anti-big government in it’s political philosophy,

Strictly speaking “collectivism by the private sector” is impossible almost by definition (unless you rob banks).

However, I do take your point. It seems to me that there is something not entirely “private sector” about “corporate America”.

 

[Philip_P]

Angainor:

However, I do take your point. It seems to me that there is something not entirely “private sector” about “corporate America”.

That’s what I meant. Just judging by Tolkien’s works, I get the distinct impression he would rather buy his sweaters from the cottage up the road than at the factory outlet store at the mall, for instance.

 

[steveandersen]

Philip P:

… Put another way, LOTR is anti-big business as well as anti-big government in it’s political philosophy,

Well yes and no
It seems he was espousing subsidiarity

The local offices of the Thain and the Master of Buckland were strengthen

But so was the world government with the restoration of Aragorn. Presumably he was going to rebuild Arnor as well as occupy the throne of Gondor

 

[Teen_Catholic]

One of the best birthday presents I ever recieved was The Magical World of the Lord of the Rings by David Colbert.

Heres what I had to say on Tolkien’s Anti-Industrialism (this is paraphrased). He said that for the early part of his life, Tolkien lived in an area surrounded by greenery, something that he delighted in. However, when Tolkien’s mother died, they were forced to move to the city, where the area was heavily industrialized. For Tolkien, the memory of his mother was tied up with the area of greenery, thus explaining why he had such a desire to “make the world green again”

 

[Philip_P]

steveandersen:

Well yes and no
It seems he was espousing subsidiarity

The local offices of the Thain and the Master of Buckland were strengthen

But so was the world government with the restoration of Aragorn. Presumably he was going to rebuild Arnor as well as occupy the throne of Gondor

Was it really a world government, though? I always wondered what was off the eastern and southern ends of the map…

Also, it was my understanding that this was a restoration of a previously existing kingdom, so I’m not sure it would accurate to call it a world government.

As far as the economics, go, can you even have true capitalism or communism without industrialization? There aren’t that many cities in Middle Earth. I think at most you’d have the local, limited capitalism you find in Medieval cities.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Philip P:

Was it really a world government, though? I always wondered what was off the eastern and southern ends of the map…

Also, it was my understanding that this was a restoration of a previously existing kingdom, so I’m not sure it would accurate to call it a world government.

As far as the economics, go, can you even have true capitalism or communism without industrialization? There aren’t that many cities in Middle Earth. I think at most you’d have the local, limited capitalism you find in Medieval cities.

A “map of Middle Earth” shows a whole lot of land not governed by the Kings of the West, as I recall. Probably roughly in proportions to the amount of our world taken up by Europe and “not-Europe” (Asia and Africa being most likely contenders as the men from South and East seem to be Afriacan and Arabian types).

As I think quickly about the books, there doesn’t seem to be too much commerce (which is, admittedly, a departure from the old days of the Silmarillion when the High Elves and Dwarfs of Moria kept up a trade; come to think of it, the men of Dale trade with the dwarfs of the Lonely Mountain and the elves of Mirkwood), but somehow the rulers of Middle Earth didn’t seem to have to worry too much about funding. I suppose that when both king and people believe in the system and strive to genuinely fulfill their roles, the monarchy doesn’t have to come up against all the problems it’s lent itself to in the past.