Anti Depressants wrong?

[Godfollower]

However, depression may so affect the reason that the moral guilt is partially or completely removed from the issue of despair.

Exactly. The danger of despair is that – having no hope in God – the despairing one will abandon the Faith. Culpability for the sin might be reduced or excused because of the depression, but it’s still a dangerous place to be (if nothing else, you’re fertile ground for the devil). So, for the depressed person, it’s best to keep on going to Mass, praying, etc. (not that it’s easy when you’re depressed; that’s why it’s such an insidious disease).

And, as other posters have made clear, one of the things you can do is seek treatment for the depression – including the taking of antidepressants if needed.

 

[agapewolf]

Agreed… anti-depressants if needed are not wrong.

However, learning what I have from NFP, I think might possibly be over-prescribed.

Depression can be a symptom of many different things:

1. actual mental/emotional issues such as the seratonin, therefore the medicine works as it is prescribled.
2. Serious PMS systems can include lots of tearfulness. A traumatic event can cause hormones to go out of wack.

Charting NFP with an NFP only doc, getting a progesterone test may be all that is needed. I know of a few women who take a natural addition to progesterone (at a specific time of the cycle) to help the body do what it is supposed to, and the moods became fine. THese women were originally diagnosed with depression and were told to go on anti-depressants.

(It’s the same idea as the pill in some ways…could possibly just mask the symtoms of something deeper instead of fixing it).

1. Spiritual issues: spiritual warfare, or oppression, not in the state of grace, guilt from sin, not receiving the sacraments enough
2. Lack of needs being met: Not enough exercise, vitamins, sun, music, or close friendships, time with other people, etc

Bottom line: I think if anyone finds themselves falling into depression, taking care of our whole person can give us the best chances for beating it. Of course, sometimes we might need the medication to pull ourselves out of the hole

 

[PennitentMan]

Not to make light of the subject but I thought this was cute.
I heard Dana the Irish Singer tell this story:

She always struggled with deep feelings of inadequacy. One day a priest friend told her he always felt inadequate. She asked how he dealt with it?? He said he went to his spiritual advisor and told him “he felt inadequate”.

His advisor responded, "you are inadequate, only God is adequate

(I hope it comes across OK written without Dana’s expression of emotion.)

Very cute, but I have to sidebar this:

I also get this from a lot of priest that very non-chalantly dismiss any problems one may have. Of course not all, but quite a few just say, Ah, get over it. Ah, it’s not so bad. Ah, It’s all in your head. Ah, of course you are not adequate.
I am frustrated with trying to find priests who will listen, actually listen when I tell them my feelings and not just dismiss them saying that it’s all in my head and I should smile and get over it…

Sorry for this sidebar/rant…my :twocents:

 

[Em_in_FL]

Very cute, but I have to sidebar this:

I also get this from a lot of priest that very non-chalantly dismiss any problems one may have. Of course not all, but quite a few just say, Ah, get over it. Ah, it’s not so bad. Ah, It’s all in your head. Ah, of course you are not adequate.
I am frustrated with trying to find priests who will listen, actually listen when I tell them my feelings and not just dismiss them saying that it’s all in my head and I should smile and get over it…

Sorry for this sidebar/rant…my :twocents:

Most priests are not adequately educated in psychiatry… do not mistake a spiritual advisor or priest for a medical doctor.
Many people who have never suffered from any mental distress lack the understanding of how to deal with the situation.

True, I think priests should probably have more training in this area, especially since they counsel so many people on a regular basis…
But still… they’ll never be medical doctors (unless they actually hold a medical degree)…

 

[PennitentMan]

Most priests are not adequately educated in psychiatry… do not mistake a spiritual advisor or priest for a medical doctor.
Many people who have never suffered from any mental distress lack the understanding of how to deal with the situation.

True, I think priests should probably have more training in this area, especially since they counsel so many people on a regular basis…
But still… they’ll never be medical doctors (unless they actually hold a medical degree)…

Yeah, that is true, the questions I asked though were certainly in the realm of spritual direction, but it felt like it was easier to say “no, it’s in your head” than to actually explore the problem. It may also be that the priests I spoke to were very advanced in their holiness and didn’t fully comprehend my situation…I’d give them the benefit of the doubt…

 

[Ramalama]

Anti-depressants are not wrong if they are truly needed, but it is cheaper and less time-consuming to take a pill once a day than to talk to someone about what’s going on. I believe anti-depressants are overused. If people would just allow themselves to get a proper amount of sleep, manage their diets, exercize more, and try to get rid of some of the stressful things in their lives, they would be a lot better off.

Please allow me to differ with you. This may work for some people, but you have no idea what it’s like to not be able to get out of bed. I have had days when I felt like crying all day long. I’ve had days when I pounded on things, thinking of the shotgun in my closet. Managing my diet and getting exercise were not options on those days.

I now take 40mg of Celexa each day and I’m a normal functioning human being.

I just needed to point out that it’s difficult to imagine the difficulties others are going through at times.

God bless you.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Originally Posted by m134e5 View Post
Anti-depressants are not wrong if they are truly needed, but it is cheaper and less time-consuming to take a pill once a day than to talk to someone about what’s going on. I believe anti-depressants are overused. If people would just allow themselves to get a proper amount of sleep, manage their diets, exercize more, and try to get rid of some of the stressful things in their lives, they would be a lot better off.

Agreed…

Healthy lifestyles may help to prevent the onset of chemical imbalances from happening in the first place…
But as a means of treatment for a pre-existing condition, healthy lifestyles alone often are NOT enough…

Let’s not confuse prevention and treatment.

 

[Praesidium]

Medicine can be a patch while proper spiritual counciling is done but does not replace it. John Paul II said “….depression is always a spiritual trial.”[emphasis original] To read his entire address vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2003/november/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20031114_pc-hlthwork_en.html .

As for the chemical imbalance suggestion from a purely scientific point of view that only makes sense from an atheist paradigm. Chemicals are how our brain communicates with each other, messing with them is messing with your brain’s ability to communicate with itself, therefore you are inhibiting your own free will, which is arguablly wrong. Oh, back to the atheists, it doesn’t make sense because that would mean that you were created outside of the bounds of your own free will.

 

[vera_dicere]

I’m a student nurse and I did a stint in the mental health (name removed by moderator)atient unit in my city. Before that I thought it was just people being sissies and they needed to “get hard”. Boy, was I wrong. It really is an illness.

God wouldn’t condemn anyone for taking drugs to combat Cancer, and Depression and other mental illnesses can be just like a Cancer, once you’ve had it, you can go into remission, or sadly it can kill you, this I have seen. I’m not sure of the exact place in the bible, but there’s something about going to see doctors because God gave them the knowledge to help us.

I don’t doubt that God could heal Depression, but I do not think taking medications is contray to Catholic teaching.

With that individual (who I shall refrain from using swears to describe) Tom Cruise got on his band wagon about beign anti-meds for Depression, its caused a lot of issues in the MH feild, esp. down here. One case I helped deal with, a woman who really liked him, got serious post natal depression, stopped taking her meds because he said it was bad and unnecessary and she ended up hurting her child and taking such a massive OD in an attempt to sucicide. All the docs were amazed she’d survivied what she’d taken.

Another woman where I lived actually killed her baby in the materinty ward because she was off her depression meds because of Tom’s statements. One of the nurses said they should sue Tom. He did a lot of damage.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Medicine can be a patch while proper spiritual counciling is done but does not replace it. John Paul II said “….depression is always a spiritual trial.”(emphasis original) To read his entire address vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2003/november/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20031114_pc-hlthwork_en.html .

As for the chemical imbalance suggestion from a purely scientific point of view that only makes sense from an atheist paradigm. Chemicals are how our brain communicates with each other, messing with them is messing with your brain’s ability to communicate with itself, therefore you are inhibiting your own free will, which is arguablly wrong. Oh, back to the atheists, it doesn’t make sense because that would mean that you were created outside of the bounds of your own free will.

Really?
Are you suggesting there is NO place for medication when an illness arises?
What about if you had diabetes? It’s your body’s free will that makes you inable to break down sugar properly… does that make it immoral to have insulin injections?

Free will is in our soul… not our brain. The brain IS scientific… the soul is not.

Thank you for the link… NOTHING in there suggested medical intervention was inappropriate.

 

[Praesidium]

No, there is a grave difference diabetes medicine is perfectly ok as is almost every other type of medicine except those that play with your mind. The brain is the material seat of the soul. These medicines artificially change our actions, as well as we feel. Our cognitive functions (which are in the brain (which God gave for a reason)) directly affect our free actions. Using medicine in the brain is like the Matrix. You can use medicines as long as you want but unless the real disease is a spiritual disease (as JP II said) and can only be truly cured by spiritual medicine. However, spiritual medicine often takes time to be effective so within this time it is totally appropriate to cautiously use medicine in the intervening time. Medication can never be a true substitute for the real Physician.

It does suggest exactly what I’m saying. If depression is always a spiritual trial, then it must always deal with the soul. So the artificial removal of depression, is also an artificial intervention on the soul. From there it becomes debatable how much we can play God in artificially controlling the soul.

To vera dicere comments, I have a close friend who was in depression, and was often near suicidal. With my help and that of her family she has sense been coming out of it and is doing pretty well. I know from that experience that it is a spiritual trial and her faith was instrumental in her recovery.

 

[vera_dicere]

Then how would one deal with those who are not Christain but are depressed? Should we deny them meds and let them fall in the deep end in the hope they find our God?

One woman I know of, found when she was on the meds that she was able to think clearly and actually found God as a result of the meds. With time she was able to be weened off them, keeping her newfound faith.

I actually did a research assignment for class in regards to Spirituality in Mental health and how most thought that those who find religion and spirituality while mentally ill was because it was a sypmtom of the illness. Patients told me the opposit, that they found religion while they were sick, the meds kept their head clear enough that they could find God, with his help and medical help, they then weened off.

Mind you, at the end of the day it’s always going to be a contensous issue.

 

[baltobetsy]

Please note that the poster asserting that medication is an atheist solution to depression is 15 years old. When he or she acquires a bit more life experience, perhaps the compassion will kick in as well.

A person suffering from depression needs to be under the care of a psychiatrist who can determine the appropriate course of treatment, whether it be talk, medications or both.

Betsy

 

[homewardbound]

When he or she acquires a bit more life experience, perhaps the compassion will kick in as well

Let us pray so.

Thank you all for your posts.

 

[Em_in_FL]

No, there is a grave difference diabetes medicine is perfectly ok as is almost every other type of medicine except those that play with your mind. The brain is the material seat of the soul. These medicines artificially change our actions, as well as we feel. Our cognitive functions (which are in the brain (which God gave for a reason)) directly affect our free actions. Using medicine in the brain is like the Matrix. You can use medicines as long as you want but unless the real disease is a spiritual disease (as JP II said) and can only be truly cured by spiritual medicine. However, spiritual medicine often takes time to be effective so within this time it is totally appropriate to cautiously use medicine in the intervening time. Medication can never be a true substitute for the real Physician.

It does suggest exactly what I’m saying. If depression is always a spiritual trial, then it must always deal with the soul. So the artificial removal of depression, is also an artificial intervention on the soul. From there it becomes debatable how much we can play God in artificially controlling the soul.

To vera dicere comments, I have a close friend who was in depression, and was often near suicidal. With my help and that of her family she has sense been coming out of it and is doing pretty well. I know from that experience that it is a spiritual trial and her faith was instrumental in her recovery.

I agree with JPII’s statement that depression is always a spiritual trial.
But not once did he mention that it is ONLY a spiritual trial.
(BTW… I’m pretty sure ANY medical condition can also be a spiritual trial… diabetes, cancer, AIDS… everything)

Please note that the poster asserting that medication is an atheist solution to depression is 15 years old. When he or she acquires a bit more life experience, perhaps the compassion will kick in as well.

A person suffering from depression needs to be under the care of a psychiatrist who can determine the appropriate course of treatment, whether it be talk, medications or both.

Betsy

Ahh… thank you. I do need to read profiles more often.

With age comes (more) wisdom.

 

[Praesidium]

vera dicere your argument is exactly what I was saying. Look I’m not saying the use of anti depressiants is neccessarily immoral, but that they are merely a temporary solution, thank God we have this solution, but it never really hits at the source. It’s like your regular cold medicine, it covers the symptoms enough that you can function, and hopefully get better more quickly due to that proper functioning, but it never actually cures the cold. I’m sorry if I came across having no caring sympathetic side, for I did not mean to. I understand dark saddness and desperation myself and know that its a terrible place to be in, but I also know that I would never screw arround with my own head; that is where I draw the line, for at that point I (for and only for myself) would cease (in my own oppinion) to be me, and that I concider a fate worse than death.

God Bless

 

[Em_in_FL]

but I also know that I would never screw arround with my own head; that is where I draw the line, for at that point I (for and only for myself) would cease (in my own oppinion) to be me, and that I concider a fate worse than death.

God Bless

You clearly lack an understanding of how anti-depressants work.

I do understand your point about treating symptoms vs finding the true cause of the depression… and I know that your intentions here may be virtuous…

But you still clearly lack some pretty basic education on this subject.

Please do not leave the impression that the Catholic faith is against the use of anti-depressant medication. That is a false statement.
You know, there may be people swayed to join or leave the faith based on our posts here (and “opinions” can be confused with “teachings”)… please DO NOT misrepresent our faith.

 

[Praesidium]

I am sorry if what I did may have seemed to do so…I was only insinuating that they are very commonly abused, (just as Ritalin) and this abuse can constist as sin by the natural law not by some declared by the church.

Well, I’m not sure what part of the picture I’m missing then…I understand how they work biologically. I also understand they repress certian emotions. What then am I missing?

 

[Em_in_FL]

Well, I’m not sure what part of the picture I’m missing then…I understand how they work biologically. I also understand they repress certian emotions. What then am I missing?

If you understand how they work biologically then this doesn’t make sense…

that is where I draw the line, **for at that point I **(for and only for myself) would cease (in my own oppinion) to be me, and that I concider a fate worse than death.

How would you “cease to be you” by taking a medication that can regulate a certain chemical in your brain???

 

[I_A]

Anti Depressants **are not intended **to mess up your brain. They are intended to **restore normal brain function. **Like any drug or disorder, misdiagnoses, unexpected side effects and improper dosage can occur to impede brain function, but that **is not **the intention.