Francisco_Fernando
Member
What is the cause of the anti-ecumenist phenomena in ROCOR? I wonder if it has to do with it’s bad history with the west, (Poland-Lithuania). Against the Wave of Ecumenism—Responding to a Tragic letter. - YouTube
Anti-Ecumenist phenomena in ROCOR?
- Thread starter Francisco_Fernando
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ROCOR is a very traditional Orthodox jurisdiction. It’s not surprising that they would not be terribly enthusiastic about ecumenism.
Generally speaking, Orthodoxy views itself as the one true Church, going so far as to say that any sacraments outside her jurisdiction are invalid (not sure how they handle baptism), that validity is tied to being within Orthodoxy and directly subject to their bishops. IOW, having schismatic bishops going around administering nonetheless valid sacraments is an alien concept to them. They regard us somewhat the way we regard the Anglicans and the Lutherans.
Opinions could vary somewhat among more liberal Orthodox. They can range anywhere from bitterly polemical to more reasoned and tolerant.
Generally speaking, Orthodoxy views itself as the one true Church, going so far as to say that any sacraments outside her jurisdiction are invalid (not sure how they handle baptism), that validity is tied to being within Orthodoxy and directly subject to their bishops. IOW, having schismatic bishops going around administering nonetheless valid sacraments is an alien concept to them. They regard us somewhat the way we regard the Anglicans and the Lutherans.
Opinions could vary somewhat among more liberal Orthodox. They can range anywhere from bitterly polemical to more reasoned and tolerant.
gpmj12
Active member
Personally I believe that some Christians fall into ideology over theology and close themselves off to the Holy Spirit. It’s clear throughout the NT that Christ desired His Church to be One. They don’t even want to come to the table which can’t be pleasing to God.
Good to see a new person posting Francisco!
Good to see a new person posting Francisco!
catholic03
Well-known member
The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia is the most conservative part of the Russian Orthodox Church. The Russian Orthodox Church has multiple completely autonomous Churches under its jurisdiction, including the ROCOR and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (although the UOC since 2022 no longer regards itself as such, although for the purposes of this thread we can disregard that for a moment). The ROCOR and the UOC are well-known to be far more conservative than the rest of the Russian Orthodox Church; the current head of the UOC, His Beatitude Metropolitan Onufriy of Kyiv and All Ukraine, purportedly considered bringing his diocese under the jurisdiction of the ROCOR back in the 1990s.
Both the ROCOR and the UOC are led by the most conservative Russian Orthodox bishops. Unlike the ROC as a whole, these two autonomous Churches do not associate themselves with the Russian Federation, but rather with the mystical “Holy Rus” or “Holy Russia”. They tend to be completely outside of politics and deeply focussed on the sacramental and mystical side of Christianity, whereas the Russian Orthodox Church in Russia itself acts quite differently; the ROCOR and the UOC are rather detached from that mindset.
The ROCOR, by the way, only entered into communion with the ROC in 2007, when the Patriarch of Moscow Alexy II granted it an autonomous status. The ROCOR was founded by Tsarist white Russian emigres in western Europe and North America in the 1920s, and came to comprise the majority of Russian Orthodox believers in the West after the 1927 “Declaration of Loyalty to Soviet Power” written by Metropolitan Sergius (Stragorodsky) at a time when the ROC in the Soviet Union was literally being destroyed as an institution. In 1944, Sergius was elected Patriarch with Stalin’s blessing, as Stalin initiated a massive Orthodox revival associated with Russian nationalism during the time of the Great Patriotic War. The ROC’s favourable situation in the USSR continued from the beginning of the GPW until the late-1950s, when Nikita Khrushchev began to persecute it again. Brezhnev later ceased this persecution and his eighteen year rule of the USSR began a period of stability and relative freedom for the Russian Orthodox Church; Brezhnev’s last act as General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union before he died in 1982 was to sign over the greatest monastery in Moscow back to the ownership of the Russian Orthodox Church.
Back to the ROCOR: they were out of communion with the rest of the ROC for 80 years because they abhorred the Moscow Patriarchate’s open loyalty to the Soviet government. The ROCOR was by 2007 the only real institution left that had preserved Russian Orthodoxy as it existed before the 1917 Revolution as although it now is part of the wider ROC again, it has in large part preserved these Tsarist ideals. I do not mean that in a bad way.
The ROCOR sometimes describes non-Orthodox Christians as “apostates” because it holds to a highly traditional view on relations with other Churches. By the way, they say that in Russia, 30% of monasteries stopped commemorating the name of the Patriarch of Moscow when Patriarch Kirill met Pope Francis in 2016. Think of that, and then apply it ten times over to the ROCOR.
There are a lot of good people in the ROCOR and to some extent their views are born out of the fact that they preserved Orthodoxy when it was persecuted in Russia and when the Moscow Patriarchate was slandering them for refusing to sign decrees of loyalty to the Soviet government.
Sr Vassa Larin is a ROCOR nun with a large online presence on YouTube and Facebook. She contradicts all the ROCOR stereotypes despite coming from a conservative Russian Orthodox family of emigres, her father being a ROCOR priest in New York state. She is very open to Catholics and recently attended the conference of the Russian Greek Catholic Church held in the Czech Republic. She is friends with Ukrainian Greek Catholics as well.
Both the ROCOR and the UOC are led by the most conservative Russian Orthodox bishops. Unlike the ROC as a whole, these two autonomous Churches do not associate themselves with the Russian Federation, but rather with the mystical “Holy Rus” or “Holy Russia”. They tend to be completely outside of politics and deeply focussed on the sacramental and mystical side of Christianity, whereas the Russian Orthodox Church in Russia itself acts quite differently; the ROCOR and the UOC are rather detached from that mindset.
The ROCOR, by the way, only entered into communion with the ROC in 2007, when the Patriarch of Moscow Alexy II granted it an autonomous status. The ROCOR was founded by Tsarist white Russian emigres in western Europe and North America in the 1920s, and came to comprise the majority of Russian Orthodox believers in the West after the 1927 “Declaration of Loyalty to Soviet Power” written by Metropolitan Sergius (Stragorodsky) at a time when the ROC in the Soviet Union was literally being destroyed as an institution. In 1944, Sergius was elected Patriarch with Stalin’s blessing, as Stalin initiated a massive Orthodox revival associated with Russian nationalism during the time of the Great Patriotic War. The ROC’s favourable situation in the USSR continued from the beginning of the GPW until the late-1950s, when Nikita Khrushchev began to persecute it again. Brezhnev later ceased this persecution and his eighteen year rule of the USSR began a period of stability and relative freedom for the Russian Orthodox Church; Brezhnev’s last act as General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union before he died in 1982 was to sign over the greatest monastery in Moscow back to the ownership of the Russian Orthodox Church.
Back to the ROCOR: they were out of communion with the rest of the ROC for 80 years because they abhorred the Moscow Patriarchate’s open loyalty to the Soviet government. The ROCOR was by 2007 the only real institution left that had preserved Russian Orthodoxy as it existed before the 1917 Revolution as although it now is part of the wider ROC again, it has in large part preserved these Tsarist ideals. I do not mean that in a bad way.
The ROCOR sometimes describes non-Orthodox Christians as “apostates” because it holds to a highly traditional view on relations with other Churches. By the way, they say that in Russia, 30% of monasteries stopped commemorating the name of the Patriarch of Moscow when Patriarch Kirill met Pope Francis in 2016. Think of that, and then apply it ten times over to the ROCOR.
There are a lot of good people in the ROCOR and to some extent their views are born out of the fact that they preserved Orthodoxy when it was persecuted in Russia and when the Moscow Patriarchate was slandering them for refusing to sign decrees of loyalty to the Soviet government.
Sr Vassa Larin is a ROCOR nun with a large online presence on YouTube and Facebook. She contradicts all the ROCOR stereotypes despite coming from a conservative Russian Orthodox family of emigres, her father being a ROCOR priest in New York state. She is very open to Catholics and recently attended the conference of the Russian Greek Catholic Church held in the Czech Republic. She is friends with Ukrainian Greek Catholics as well.
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Francisco_Fernando
Member
I’ve heard that ROCOR is anti-Western as well.
catholic03
Well-known member
Do not forget that the majority of its members are either Westerners of Russian ancestry or Western converts to Orthodoxy. Its First Hierarch, Metropolitan Nicholas of New York was born and raised in the United States, and another of its prominent bishops, Metropolitan Mark of Berlin, was raised a German Protestant and converted to Orthodoxy in the 1960s.
Francisco_Fernando
Member
No, I mean they hate the Enlightenment.
catholic03
Well-known member
Most faithful Catholic and Orthodox Christians view the Enlightenment negatively, for good reason, although that is not to say that all of its impacts were bad and I doubt even if most Old Believers in Russia would think that.
It contained both good and bad. It can’t easily be described as fully one or the other.Francisco_Fernando:
Most faithful Catholic and Orthodox Christians view the Enlightenment negatively, for good reason, although that is not to say that all of its impacts were bad and I doubt even if most Old Believers in Russia would think that.
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