Anti-Theists and the "Immorality" of Christianity

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The cover of the December 2009 issue of The Atlantic, asked, “Did Christianity cause the crash?” In fact, a tide of anti-Christian propaganda is holding that “Christianity caused —————“(fill in anything you don’t like). The only good thing about it is that Christians can learn how Jews have felt for centuries. Antitheists believe that Christians who do good are either not really Christians or else do good despite their Christianity: Christians cannot do good on the basis of their beliefs, because their beliefs are bad. [Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything (New York: Twelve, 2007), pp. 173-9)]
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They also think Christianity is immoral: it supports war, denies rights to minorities, pits itself against science and blocks progress. The antitheists attack all religions but focus on the three most prominent Judaism, Christianity and Islam — and their prime target is Christianity.
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Jeffrey Burton Russell, professor of history at the University of California, Santa Barbara, argues that the really important distinction is between immorality and illegality:
Many things are illegal without being immoral — double parking, for example — and many things are immoral without being illegal — for example, paying yourself hundreds of times more than your employees. Sometimes, as in Nazi or Soviet society, it is even illegal not to be immoral: you are obliged by law to inform on your neighbor. Illegality depends on whoever is in control of the state. Immorality is quite different: it means violating a fundamental code of behavior.
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For those who deal with the atheists and anti-theists in the public square, these are important distinctions to be aware of. **Spend a few moments with Dr. Russell **as he demolishes these empty shibboleths by our atheist and antitheist friends about Morality and Religion. A great read. Take the opportunity I’m creating here to shower me with love and affection if you agree. 🙂

dj
 
My beef is not with Christianity per se, my beef is with the irrationality that is necessary to believe it. Christianity, like any benevolent belief, does a lot of good, but like many irrational beliefs has no safeguard against doing evil under the illusion that it is doing “God’s will.” If something is God’s will, you cannot be overly zealous. You can burn witches at the stake, kill, torture, behead, etc. Recently 11 people were beheaded just for listening to rock music. All religions have their infamies; it’s just that Christianity is very popular right now and an easy target. Hey! How about handling some snakes and drinking some poison? How about some exorcisms? Let’s rid the world of demons for all time! I tell you, the way those demons caused Mother Teresa’s insomnia was shameful! Good thing there was an exorcist handy! And those bishops just recently who pointed out that all this unusual weather and natural disasters were caused because we have turned away from God! It’s unfortunate that God is never too clear about what his will is. I suggest you all review another Russell’s thoughts: Bertrand. Read his book, Why I Am Not a Christian.
P.S. The world really does go around the sun. Honest!
 
dchezik said:
My beef is not with Christianity per se, my beef is with the irrationality that is necessary to believe it. …

It’s unfortunate that God is never too clear about what his will is.

…!
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The lack of clarity is not with God, it is with the perceptions of man. There is something “prior to” the rationality that you seem to trust your life to. It would be a real adventure, to seek out that “subflooring” beneath the floor you stand on. Long ago, before physics, there was metaphysics - a science that was “prior to” and supporting the thoughts of thoughtful men. After a while, however, men grew so confident in the discoveries of their physics, that they felt confident enough to create their own metaphysics: they began to believe their own press, they began to invent their own premises upon which their logic stood.

The desire of man to create his own god is not new. Created gods are much easier to coexist with - they can be easily persuaded to change their opinions and allow the much better thoughts and desires of men. Idolatry is an old and fundamental form of irrationality - but idolatry allows men to shape and rename irrationality so that it becomes the new “rationality.” Then, dark become light, wrong become right, and men get to party as they wish without those pesky consequences of what they used to call sin.

God does not hide - man does. And in the bushes, hiding from the God who is manifest in all His creation, man invents his ever-changing but ever the same virtual reality.

Everyone who seeks, finds. That is a truth that you can “take to the bank,” as they say.
 
dchezik said:
My beef is not with Christianity per se, my beef is with the irrationality that is necessary to believe it. Christianity, like any benevolent belief, does a lot of good, but like many irrational beliefs has no safeguard against doing evil under the illusion that it is doing “God’s will.” If something is God’s will, you cannot be overly zealous. You can burn witches at the stake, kill, torture, behead, etc. Recently 11 people were beheaded just for listening to rock music. All religions have their infamies; it’s just that Christianity is very popular right now and an easy target. Hey! How about handling some snakes and drinking some poison? How about some exorcisms? Let’s rid the world of demons for all time! I tell you, the way those demons caused Mother Teresa’s insomnia was shameful! Good thing there was an exorcist handy! And those bishops just recently who pointed out that all this unusual weather and natural disasters were caused because we have turned away from God! It’s unfortunate that God is never too clear about what his will is. I suggest you all review another Russell’s thoughts: Bertrand. Read his book, Why I Am Not a Christian.
P.S. The world really does go around the sun. Honest!
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Your understanding of Christianity seems based around what you hear on atheist websites and books, and not on actual rational thought / research.

First: While there are a few christian sects that reject modern science, they are the minority, not the norm. Catholics, especially, have a strong fondness for science. In fact, the basis of modern science began with monks who sought to understand the Universe that God has given us. Similarly, the first universities, which sought to spread this knowledge, were Catholic in origin. The big bang theory was proposed by a Catholic monk, and western astronomy owes much to monk scholars who studied the night skies from their monasteries. Where we have problems with science is where science is trying to play God, or pretending that it can somehow magically erase God. You cannot erase God by understanding his creation any more than you can stop a hurricane by understanding the forces that drive it (Note, this is referencing you, as a human, specifically. I imagine that in some point in the future we’ll find a way to stop hurricanes)

Second: Those instances that you listed off were, for the most part, not perpetrated by The Church. They were the actions of people who had already strayed from The Church into Protestantism, or who were never part of the Church, as is the case with the Muslim extremists who beheaded those poor people simply for listening to music. There were not operating within the bounds of their religion any more than a Catholic could have been. Those people subvert religion and try to twist it to their own ends, not unlike an atheist tries to twist science to disprove God.

Third: Your example of snake handling, etc. is not a part of Catholic teaching, now or ever.

Fourth: Cite references from bishops claiming that the natural disasters are God’s vengeance. Without references it’s nothing but libel.

All of these issues you have stated with religion are not a part of Catholic teaching, but rather in spite of it. Study the true Church of God and you will find a truth the extends beyond science and spiritualism, and combines them both into a true understanding of the nature of reality.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
Your understanding of Christianity seems based around what you hear on atheist websites and books, and not on actual rational thought / research.

First: While there are a few christian sects that reject modern science, they are the minority, not the norm. Catholics, especially, have a strong fondness for science. In fact, the basis of modern science began with monks who sought to understand the Universe that God has given us. Similarly, the first universities, which sought to spread this knowledge, were Catholic in origin. The big bang theory was proposed by a Catholic monk, and western astronomy owes much to monk scholars who studied the night skies from their monasteries. Where we have problems with science is where science is trying to play God, or pretending that it can somehow magically erase God. You cannot erase God by understanding his creation any more than you can stop a hurricane by understanding the forces that drive it (Note, this is referencing you, as a human, specifically. I imagine that in some point in the future we’ll find a way to stop hurricanes)

Second: Those instances that you listed off were, for the most part, not perpetrated by The Church. They were the actions of people who had already strayed from The Church into Protestantism, or who were never part of the Church, as is the case with the Muslim extremists who beheaded those poor people simply for listening to music. There were not operating within the bounds of their religion any more than a Catholic could have been. Those people subvert religion and try to twist it to their own ends, not unlike an atheist tries to twist science to disprove God.

Third: Your example of snake handling, etc. is not a part of Catholic teaching, now or ever.

Fourth: Cite references from bishops claiming that the natural disasters are God’s vengeance. Without references it’s nothing but libel.

All of these issues you have stated with religion are not a part of Catholic teaching, but rather in spite of it. Study the true Church of God and you will find a truth the extends beyond science and spiritualism, and combines them both into a true understanding of the nature of reality.
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👍
 
dchezik said:
My beef is not with Christianity per se, my beef is with the irrationality that is necessary to believe it. Christianity, like any benevolent belief, does a lot of good, but like many irrational beliefs has no safeguard against doing evil under the illusion that it is doing “God’s will.” If something is God’s will, you cannot be overly zealous. You can burn witches at the stake, kill, torture, behead, etc. Recently 11 people were beheaded just for listening to rock music. All religions have their infamies; it’s just that Christianity is very popular right now and an easy target. Hey! How about handling some snakes and drinking some poison? How about some exorcisms? Let’s rid the world of demons for all time! I tell you, the way those demons caused Mother Teresa’s insomnia was shameful! Good thing there was an exorcist handy! And those bishops just recently who pointed out that all this unusual weather and natural disasters were caused because we have turned away from God! It’s unfortunate that God is never too clear about what his will is. I suggest you all review another Russell’s thoughts: Bertrand. Read his book, Why I Am Not a Christian.
P.S. The world really does go around the sun. Honest!
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Yes, atheism has really helped Josef Stalin to be a good leader :rolleyes:
 
fide said:
Your reference says he was a “secular priest” - not a member of a religious order. Do you know otherwise? That he was indeed a Jesuit priest?
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Must have missed that. I think I might have mistaken him being jesuit instead of going to a jesuit school. Oops. Thanks for the correction!
 
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