antichrist

[JohnWilliams]

Yes. He is being more revealed, but he has not be actually revealed as Paul indicates.

You should know that even though some Catholics do watch these shows, the Church has caution against it. Paul said that the lawless one will do signs.

Because uses the term “lawless one.” During much study, the Church has realized that this is the same meaning as the word antichrist. John is the only book that uses the term, yet similar things are said in Paul’s epistles using a different term. yet, by common sense, we know it is the same person.

The problem with using common sense rather than hermenutics is that we tend to find “answers” that fit our preconceived notions and doctrine.

The chapter attributes the following to the antichrist:

He opposes God

Which he does in each and every one of us every time we succumb to sin when we know what is right. Even moreso when we judge others:

“…so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”

I believe we are pointing our fingers in the wrong direction. We should all be pointing inward to address the man of sin:
Strong’s:

shewing
New Testament Greek Definition:
584 apodeiknumi {ap-od-ike’-noo-mee}
from 575 and 1166;; v
AV - approve 1, prove 1, set forth 1, show 1; 4

1. to point away from one’s self, to point out, show forth, to
   expose to view, exhibit
2. to declare, to show, to prove what kind of person anyone is,
   to prove by arguments, demonstrate

Every time we stand in judgment of another we exhault ourselves above God, by assuming His role.

He will be revealed

And he is evermoreso with each passing day. In the Netherlands, once a bastion of Christianity, they call Christians “dogs”.

He is in the Temple of God

There is only one temple and that is ourselves, which I don’t believe can be argued, since so many verses make this so clear.

He will do signs and miracles

I believe the leopard-bear-lion to be the Middle Eastern Islamic empire of Iran, Iraq and Syria. It is a geographic fit with Daniel’s successive kingdom beasts of lion, bear, and leopard. I pasted a link to a Yahoo search regarding - miracles of Islam - These are miracles performed before the beast. search.yahoo.com/search?p=miracles+of+islam&fr=yfp-t-500&toggle=1&cop=&ei=UTF-8
Another modern day “miracle” is the mathematical relationship of the number 666 to the Quran 66619.org/thequran.htm
66619.org/

Something is restraining him

Satan was loosed as we entered the “time of the end” which was marked by 1948 and more specifically by the end of the Gentiles trodding the Holy City in 1967 when the Jews took the Holy City back.

Christ will not come until he is revealed

I agree but how much more revealed does he need to be? Look at what is considered entertainment. Consider how that would have been viewed in 1950, whether poker as a spectator sport, Las Vegas as a “family” vacation spot, even network TV. What we have had is a steady falling away ever since 1948, a drip, drip, drip, which includes the founding of the World Council of Churches in 1948 and Supreme Court decisions of Everson in 1947 and McCollum in 1948. Europe has been spiritually dead for much longer with empty churches and many converted to mosques. I believe my Savior could return today.

 

[JohnWilliams]

He will not be revealed until after the apostasy

How after does it need to be? Look at the state of the Church. Try the Episcopal thread, or:

“‘Unitarians from Boston to Berkeley have opened another front in the liberal crusade to expand the definition of marriage and family in America.’ ’ Polyamory is not an alternative to monogamy. It’s an alternative to cheating,’ said Jasmine Walston, who lives in Louisville, Ky., and is president of the Unitarian Universalists for Polyamory Awareness. ‘For some of us, monogamy doesn’t work, and cheating was just abhorrent to me,’ she said.”

A man named Dr. Ralph Underwager who claims to be a Lutheran pastor was interviewed by Paidika, the infamous Dutch journal of pedophilia in 1993. Paidika asked: “Is choosing pedophilia for you a responsible choice for the individual?” To which Underwager replied: “Certainly it is responsible… Pedophiles can boldly and courageously affirm what they choose. They can say what they want is to find the best way to love. I am also a theologian and as a theologian, I believe it is God’s will that there be closeness and intimacy, unity of the flesh, between people…” Underwager declared that “pedophiles need to become more positive and make the claim that pedophilia is an acceptable expression of God’s will for love and unity among human beings.”

Since the apostasy has not occured yet, he could not be revealed. You could not claim to know where he is as a person because he has not yet been revealed. We know he is a person because he will do signs and miracles. We know he could not be yet, because something is holding him back.

I believe that Satan has us so focused on an individual “Antichrist” we don’t notice that there are 1.5 billion folks in Islam that are antichrist. These poor folks believe they worship God, at the same time that they are specifically antichrist by religion. Look at what a poor job the Church did of evangelizing these folks during the 20th century. Now that the beast’s mortal wound has been healed (mortally wounded at the Battle of Tours during the first Jihad) and Western oil money healed and raised the beast like a phoenix from the ashes, it is much more difficult.

 

[bella5110]

To sum it up, The Anti-christ is here already, and he is on this thread…

 

[Karin]

To sum it up, The Anti-christ is here already, and he is on this thread…

really…do tell

 

[tequilamac]

How after does it need to be? Look at the state of the Church. Try the Episcopal thread, or:

“‘Unitarians from Boston to Berkeley have opened another front in the liberal crusade to expand the definition of marriage and family in America.’ ’ Polyamory is not an alternative to monogamy. It’s an alternative to cheating,’ said Jasmine Walston, who lives in Louisville, Ky., and is president of the Unitarian Universalists for Polyamory Awareness. ‘For some of us, monogamy doesn’t work, and cheating was just abhorrent to me,’ she said.”

A man named Dr. Ralph Underwager who claims to be a Lutheran pastor was interviewed by Paidika, the infamous Dutch journal of pedophilia in 1993. Paidika asked: “Is choosing pedophilia for you a responsible choice for the individual?” To which Underwager replied: “Certainly it is responsible… Pedophiles can boldly and courageously affirm what they choose. They can say what they want is to find the best way to love. I am also a theologian and as a theologian, I believe it is God’s will that there be closeness and intimacy, unity of the flesh, between people…” Underwager declared that “pedophiles need to become more positive and make the claim that pedophilia is an acceptable expression of God’s will for love and unity among human beings.”

I believe that Satan has us so focused on an individual “Antichrist” we don’t notice that there are 1.5 billion folks in Islam that are antichrist. These poor folks believe they worship God, at the same time that they are specifically antichrist by religion. Look at what a poor job the Church did of evangelizing these folks during the 20th century. Now that the beast’s mortal wound has been healed (mortally wounded at the Battle of Tours during the first Jihad) and Western oil money healed and raised the beast like a phoenix from the ashes, it is much more difficult.

And… this concerns you because of why exactly?

 

[JohnWilliams]

And… this concerns you because of why exactly?

Because 1.5 billion Muslims are on the road to perdition, in part, because of the failure of the Church to evangelize them. I believe this failure is in part due to faulty eschatological doctrine keeping us from understanding the central role of Islam in prophecy.

 

[tequilamac]

Because 1.5 billion Muslims are on the road to perdition, in part, because of the failure of the Church to evangelize them. I believe this failure is in part due to faulty eschatological doctrine keeping us from understanding the central role of Islam in prophecy.

Then you better get to work at saving them, then, hadn’t you? Why are you spending your time discussing it on this forum when you could be saving them? Have you thought perhaps of joining a Muslim forum so you could evangelise with an eschatological doctrine you find more appropriate?

 

[JohnWilliams]

Then you better get to work at saving them, then, hadn’t you? Why are you spending your time discussing it on this forum when you could be saving them? Have you thought perhaps of joining a Muslim forum so you could evangelise with an eschatological doctrine you find more appropriate?

I have and I do. I am also called to help Christians understand another view of eschatology so that perhaps other Christians can be involved in this evangelism as well. Rather than helping Muslims understand that they are in the grip of Satan, many Churches are even declaring that they worship the same God as Christians and Jews. I thought the Catholic Church was one of those that had this recent revelation from a link that I was presented with in another forum. Perhaps I misunderstood.
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0207bt.asp
carm.org/catholic/muslims.htm

Try this simple and free online read: The False Prophet
ellisskolfield.com/pdf/TFPChapters1-9.pdf
ellisskolfield.com/pdf/TFPChapters10-17.pdf

 

[Karin]

I have and I do. I am also called to help Christians understand another view of eschatology so that perhaps other Christians can be involved in this evangelism as well. Rather than helping Muslims understand that they are in the grip of Satan, many Churches are even declaring that they worship the same God as Christians and Jews. I thought the Catholic Church was one of those that had this recent revelation from a link that I was presented with in another forum. Perhaps I misunderstood.
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0207bt.asp

Try this simple and free online read: The False Prophet
ellisskolfield.com/pdf/TFPChapters1-9.pdf
ellisskolfield.com/pdf/TFPChapters10-17.pdf

Thank you but this Catholic does not need to be evagelised to

 

[JohnWilliams]

Thank you but this Catholic does not need to be evagelised to

Nor did I indicate that I was here to evangelize Catholics. I am here for eschatological discussion.

 

[Karin]

Nor did I indicate that I was here to evangelize Catholics. I am here for eschatological discussion.

An end of times discussion…so do you read and believe the series of books called the “LEFT BEHIND SERIES”?

 

[Karin]

III. CATHOLIC ESCHATOLOGY

*In this article there is no critical discussion of New Testament eschatology nor any attempt to trace the historical developments of Catholic teaching from Scriptural and traditional data; only a brief conspectus is given of the developed Catholic system. For critical and historical details and for the refutation of opposing views the reader is referred to the special articles dealing with the various doctrines. The eschatological summary which speaks of the “four last things” (death, judgment, heaven, and [hell (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/cathen/07207a.htm)) is popular rather than scientific. For systematic treatment it is best to distinguish between (A) individual and (B) universal and cosmic eschatology, including under (A): *

• *death; *
• *the particular judgment; *
• *heaven, or eternal happiness; *
• [purgatory (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/cathen/12575a.htm)*, or the intermediate state; *
• [hell (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/cathen/07207a.htm), or eternal punishment;
  *and under (B): *
• *the approach of the end of the world; *
• *the [resurrection of the body (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/cathen/12792a.htm); *
• *the general judgment; and *
• the final consummation of all things.
  *The superiority of Catholic eschatology consists in the fact that, without professing to answer every question that idle curiosity may suggest, it gives a clear, consistent, satisfying statement of all that need at present be known, or can profitably be understood, regarding the eternal issues of life and death for each of us personally, and the final consummation of the cosmos of which we are a part. *

 

[JohnWilliams]

An end of times discussion…so do you read and believe the series of books called the “LEFT BEHIND SERIES”?

My eschatology is linear-historic, not futurist as those that wrote the movie. Linear-historic is the view of virtually ALL Christians in regard to Old Testament first-coming prophecy. That is a view that the prophecies came to pass steadily as that era advanced.

I hold this view for second-coming prophecy as well. Actually so did the Reformers and it wasn’t until near the 20th century that the Protestant Church began to follow futurist and preterist doctrines. Linear or continuous-historic views are fairly non-existent in the Church today but I don’t mind being in a remnant.

It is obvious that futurists and preterists must each believe that the other is nearly 100% wrong, since there is a gulf of 1900 years that divides the two eschatological camps.

The Left Behind series is the stuff of itching ears. My view deals with FULFILLED prophecy, not speculation.

 

[bella5110]

Because 1.5 billion Muslims are on the road to perdition, in part, because of the failure of the Church to evangelize them. I believe this failure is in part due to faulty eschatological doctrine keeping us from understanding the central role of Islam in prophecy.

There are also 1.5 Billion Catholics by the way. Again I repeat, Islam will NOT, again NOT ever win by the sword. Jesus said our church will never die. We will prevail in the end.

Failure of the church to evangelize them?? Like they would ever listen…it has nothing to do with the church, it is a violent radical religion. period.

 

[bella5110]

Nor did I indicate that I was here to evangelize Catholics. I am here for eschatological discussion.

What?:whacky:

 

[JohnWilliams]

There are also 1.5 Billion Catholics by the way. Again I repeat, Islam will NOT, again NOT ever win by the sword. Jesus said our church will never die. We will prevail in the end.

Failure of the church to evangelize them?? Like they would ever listen…it has nothing to do with the church, it is a violent radical religion. period.

But it would have been much easier to evangelize them before the wound of the beast was healed. That is before Western money flowed in to the Middle East in oil purchase to heal the beast and finance the second Jihad in the image of the first Jihad.
Here are some great testimonials by X Muslims who listened:
exmuslim.com/

 

[bella5110]

But it would have been much easier to evangelize them before the wound of the beast was healed. That is before Western money flowed in to the Middle East in oil purchase to heal the beast and finance the second Jihad in the image of the first Jihad.
Here are some great testimonials by X Muslims who listened:
exmuslim.com/

My friend,
There have been war in the Middle East since the beginning of time. Stop making excuses for these people. Leave it to God.

 

[inJESUS]

yes John Muhammad was one of these anti-Christs the Bible warned against. But do not fogot that Muslims believe the Bible is corrupt…do you think by pointing out to Biblical propphecies, they’ll be convinced? no they’ll say corrupt and move on even if they can’t prove but they HAVE to say this.

What do you expect the Church to say? Muhammad is an anti-Christ and Muslims follow the devil? of course not…yes Muhammad is an anti-Christ but Muslims acknowledge the Creator of this world even though Muhammad had an anti-Christ spirit. Do not forget that even satan believes in God though he is an anti-Christ.

 

[tequilamac]

I have and I do. I am also called to help Christians understand another view of eschatology so that perhaps other Christians can be involved in this evangelism as well. Rather than helping Muslims understand that they are in the grip of Satan, many Churches are even declaring that they worship the same God as Christians and Jews. I thought the Catholic Church was one of those that had this recent revelation from a link that I was presented with in another forum. Perhaps I misunderstood.
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0207bt.asp
carm.org/catholic/muslims.htm

Try this simple and free online read: The False Prophet
ellisskolfield.com/pdf/TFPChapters1-9.pdf
ellisskolfield.com/pdf/TFPChapters10-17.pdf

Oh how very kind of you to be so worried about others. Yes it would be terrible for so many Christians and Muslims to be in the grip of Satan. But we have you here with us now so all is well,Soon we will see what we have not seen and your mission will be accomplished and we will all be saved.

 

[tequilamac]

What?:whacky:

Wait. I thought you were here to save Christians and 1.5 million Muslims from Satan. Now you say you are here for discussion. What are you going to do? Talk the anti christ to death?